Offer rescinded after negotiating salary
hey monkeys, I got an offer rescinded after I tried negotiating the compensation. HR said the MD was unhappy about it and advised me to move on since it was a bad start to the working relationship.
Any advice on how to approach it in the future? I honestly think I did it in a polite and respectful manner. But the conversations with HR went back and forth for a while and I guess the MD got pissed and decided to pull it.
Quite upset about losing the offer as I am stuck in a BO role trying to escape. Managed to get this one FO role after a YEAR of searching :(
Simple, don't negotiate when you have no leverage
Yeah. Or a current job you're happy to stay in.
note to future self
bruh
Some of this is mentioned above, but generally:
1) It's rarely a good idea to negotiate for structured analyst programs. Pay is standardized and it can deplete a lot of good will before you walk in the door. It's probably more acceptable to negotiate for junior roles where you don't enter as part of a class into an analyst/assoc. program. YMMV.
2) If you don't have any leverage (ie a competitive alternative), you need to limit yourself to one ask at most. Even if you do have leverage, you need to read your counterparty's willingness for a back-and-forth negotiation. If they're not enthusiastically engaged, get to a best/final offer quickly and just accept or decline.
The above said, this MD just strikes me as a huge a-hole. I get that FO roles require people who understand the nuances of business etiquette, but pulling an offer from a 20-something to prove a point just screams Napoleon Complex.
If I was OP, I'd write him a letter. Thank him for the opportunity and apologize for overstepping and overestimating your value. Acknowledge it was a costly lesson to learn, but a valuable one that you'll keep with you. The offer probably won't be reinstated, and you shouldn't even hint that's what you want. But who knows, maybe you'll stroke this d-bag's ego enough that he reconsiders, or recommends you to someone else. Worst case, you'll have done some reputational damage control before you move on to the next opportunity.
Thanks for the detailed reply. This happened 2 weeks back. Is it a little late to be emailing the MD?
Yes, I personally don't think I can get along with the MD. But then again I am a BO guy trying to make it to the FO, can't be choosy.
Yes, I may have overstepped. But I thought HR would just come back with a "that's all we can do, take it or leave it". Instead, it was just "we are taking the offer back and are unhappy about how the negotiations have taken place"
Can't hurt. Would even suggest sending him a typed letter instead of an email.
You're going to work for some jerks over the course of your career, especially in this business. Not much you can do about it, particularly at junior levels.
You mention below that you sent market data to HR as part of your negotiation. That's not usually a productive way to negotiate (exceptions certainly exist). The HR dept of a major financial institution isn't looking for you to educate them. If the offer is below market, they probably know it. And salary negotiation isn't an exercise in proving facts - it's trying to convince the other party that your offer is worth their while. Waving data in HR's face just does two things. 1) It accuses them of low-balling you, and 2) It tells them you'd be disgruntled working for them at that figure. You can see why they'd rather not bring someone on board after receiving that message.
Agree with all your points here except for the MD sounding like an a-hole. The OP said the conversation with HR went back and forth for a while, which is very unusual at the junior levels. These are not revenue generating positions, little to no direct experience is required, the pool of applicants is usually pretty deep, thus each applicant is easily replaceable.
Im going to make a few assumptions here.
1) I’m assuming HR based the offered comp for the FO role on OP’s comp in the BO role.
2) While the offered comp may have been lower than the comp for the typical applicant in this role, it probably still was a comp upgrade compared to the BO role.
3) Finally, given that this is a junior role, the delta between the offered comp and the comp that the OP felt was deserved was probably less than $25k.
A lot of assumptions here but again comp for juniors at banks are fairly standard and with little room to negotiate so this can’t be too far off.
From MD’s perspective, this is a classic case of overplaying your hand demonstrating short sightedness and low business acumen. Compared to most junior applicants who have been made an offer, OP has been substantially more difficult while being offered a tremendous upgrade in career trajectory, being given a raise, bringing limited immediately useful skills/knowledge to the table all over a small amount of money that would be inconsequential over the long run if the OP was reasonably competent in the new role. Why not just move on to the next eager candidate?
My point here is not to crap on the OP. It just seems like OP didn’t see the bigger picture and I don’t think the MD was in the wrong.
OP, best of luck. I hope everything works out and you’re laughing about this experience in a couple years.
Totally disagree with your sentiment but agree with your assessment.
It is true that HR takes into consideration the current compensation of an applicant when extending the offer. They do frequently look for "good deals," so to speak.
This is entirely inappropriate. It creates friction within a group, animosity and shows that the organization doesn't care about your professional development in the long run. They simply want to squeeze you, like a resource, to maximize what they can get from you.
Let me make my position more clear: Individual A and Individual B should be paid the same amount for the same work, all other things equal. Individual A should not be paid a 25% premium to Individual B simply because he/she was paid more in the prior position.
If you dont believe that Individual B is qualified based on his/her prior work experience, then dont extend an offer. Its just stupid to attempt to hire him/her at a massive discount to the market rate. I've never seen that end well.
I've been there. I know people that have been there, and it doesn't work.
Conclusion: never, ever, tell HR how much you make. Always give them a range of how much you expect to make given the responsibilities associated with the position. If they press you, lie. It's none of their business. They have no right to press you, and you should never be in a position to negotiate against yourself.
has happened to be three times over the course of my career... you are not alone. And don't beat yourself up about it - you never know the real reason why it happened. For example, first time it happened for me - the entire group ended up collapsing, second time - there was another candidate with a personal connection to the partners who had no relevant experience, third time it happened - the private equity fund was on the verge of going bankrupt and was hiring to sell all its assets and get cash... don't beat yourself up. Wall Street is rough and tumble. Just jump right back up and keep fighting...
Same thing happened to me and I was devastated for a couple of weeks. I knew it was a risky strategy but it's something I thought through carefully. I don't know your motivations but mine were based on what I thought I could achieve in the market. Thinking with my head and not my heart. I knew the risks when I made the counter offer but I also believed in what I was worth in the market. I wasn't being greedy or short sighted.
I was Senior Associate moving into VP and got offered a job at a well known boutique at the level I was at. Because I was joining only a few months before their year end they told me I wouldn't be eligible for promotion to VP until the following year (effectively 16 months' time). To compensate, they promised to underwrite my bonus for the year-end coming if I joined which would have (almost) matched the package I was on at the time. I pushed them on the bonus by a very, very small number and my phone went very quiet.
When I called HR he apologised for not getting in touch and said they were going to 'continue searching the market'! I was shocked and deeply devastated. I had been through over 5 hours of interviews and could not believe this reaction. So binary after meeting me in person multiple times. It really made me question my actions and whether I had done the right thing. I wrote a carefully worded letter to the MD that had interviewed me and copied in HR but it was too late. I had blown it.
Looking back however, the feeling was comparable to when you split from a girl who you know isn't right for you. You're heart is in pieces but if you made the decision for the right reasons you have to stick by it and believe it was right (though it won't make it any easier).
I made the decision after that not to interview for Associate roles and after a few months I was promoted to VP. With VP status I was interviewing for roles I couldn't have imagined a few months earlier and ended up joining a top firm with a huge pay increase at VP level and a huge amount of prestige.
Subsequently I heard very bad things about the firm that rescinded my offer and the way they treat their staff. They never managed to fill the role and ended up covering it internally.
I think the moral of the story is to understand the market and what you are really worth. I made one of the best decisions of my life and would probably have been offered something else at a higher level if I hadn't taken my current role, even though it was very difficult to take at the time. If you are greedy and motivated for the wrong reasons they will see you coming a mile away. Back yourself but be realistic.