What should we do if our jobs get taken by AI?
Wanna have a backup plan and feel scared since I studied only Econ at HYPSM. I think Engineering and Doctors will be fine, but I think lawyers, consultants, and bankers are screwed.
Wanna have a backup plan and feel scared since I studied only Econ at HYPSM. I think Engineering and Doctors will be fine, but I think lawyers, consultants, and bankers are screwed.
Career Resources
start selling Adderall pills
just put the fries in the bag man
Go join a AI startup
Just become Ai
Really don't need to worry about this right now. There's a few big reasons why. First, I'm always astonished when people say banks would chomp at the opportunity to outsource their entire labor pool to Ai, because you can already do so with cheap labor in India, Eastern Europe, or some other area of the world. Yet, companies continue to bring in analysts. Why? Because if you don't train juniors, in 10 years you won't have seniors, and those seniors more than make up for the cost of losing 90% of your analyst class over time. Analysts and associates rarely pay for their paychecks with their work. Just straight up, if a company wanted to cut costs they'd do so with entry level, because for the first few years of your career you just aren't making enough for the firm to justify your salary.
That's more the political reasoning, but there is another element: The technical element. I've made previous comments on this issue, which I'll just paste below
Ai is a bit overblown, and the main reason behind this is costs. People oftentimes think that costs of Ai scale linearly, so it's very easy to replace juniors and have the costs be comparative. This is not true. LLMs operate on transformer technology, which means it can basically take in a whole sentence and connect it to other parts of the sentence. So, say for example you type in "The black cat is playing in the tree. It is happy" or something. Well, older Neural Networks couldn't actually connect the first part to the second. It would have difficulty connecting "Black cat" to "tree" to "It" as in it would think these are very different things. This, of course, causes issues. Transformers were able to provide "attention" tokens to each of these elements, so basically the transformer could connect the cat, the tree, and the it being the cat, with the black cat being happy.
Here's the problem though: with that, every sentence is made up of words, and so the LLM must piece together each word to every other word. What that means, in a practical sense, is that "The black cat" gets compared against every word/phrase in the sentence. Now, for this short of a sentence, this isn't an issue. But, let's imagine we wanted to create an entire model for a presentation. We would need corporate earnings calls, 10k's, news reports, maybe some alternative data. All of this requires the LLM to try and connect A to B to C. The problem is that A isn't just connecting to B, but rather to C and D and everything else. If you know CS and big o time, you'll recognize this is o(n^2) time, which means the more and more parameters we feed the model, the slower and slower it runs. This means every new prompt continually causes a massive increase in computation. Taking just 1 10k could mean 10s of thousands of different parameters to work with. This also leads to hallucinations. The LLM doesn't know whether to connect A to B or to C based on some information. It can guess, or with newer models it can reason pretty well, but again that costs computation power.
What this means, in all practical terms, is that Ai is currently heavily subsidized by VC/Growth equity forms, or big tech earnings. These companies are spending tens of billions of dollars on GPUs to try and make the best model to win the race, but the problem is that for these crazy computational tasks, with a lot of different parameters, things are insanely expensive. Even typing one thing into an LLM can lead to a massive cost overrun.
SSMs can improve this a bit. They work by basically having an updating "index" so to say, so pretend instead of needing to store an entire 10k and pair everything in it, the SSM will create an index page that will update with new information. However, this creates a lot of new issues, and SSMs are still very much in their infancy.
So, what does this mean in practical terms? Well, once all these companies supplying the models in Google, OpenAi, Anthropic, etc. realize that they're basically blowing billions for nothing in return, they'll start charging the actual costs of the models. How much would that be? Well, OpenAi stated in the past that their 200$ a month subscription actually lost money. Yes, 200 a month losing money. No wonder all the Ai companies are constantly fundraising. And big tech is literally saying they don't know how to make money off these things. If the 200 dollar model(which is for individuals) isn't working out, imagine that cost, but scaled up to an entire organization with thousands of inputs from different people and new info, and all of a sudden you have a behemoth model that requires supercomputers to spit out basic information.
That's one of my longer technical writeups on Ai, which has been slightly adjusted over the past couple months as more news comes out. First, I would say we're facing yet another issue to the Ai boom that wasn't as present when I wrote that: Capital and energy. Right now, we're deploying so much capital to these Ai servers and seeing very little in return. The massive cyclical nature of recent deals is showing a massive potential issue for Ai, namely the fact that there might not be enough capital to actually get the models where they need to be. Like, if AGI is achieved, sure, it's worth it, but that's a big if. We aren't even aware if AGI is physically possible. The other is energy. Right now, Microsoft has billions worth of GPUs just sitting, because they can't get enough power to actually run the things. The US baseload power is not strong enough. China actually has us beat strongly here, because they do nuclear so cheap. The current administration seems to want to solve this issue with just more oil, but this is really unsustainable. So the US will need to basically design their entire industrial policy around Ai for the next 10 years to see all these major issues fixed, and we're not even sure what we're getting from that.
I'd also like to point out, Ai is just a predictive model, and a predictive model is based on a lot of regression. It's not thinking. It's statistics. And here's the major issue with statistics: It cannot predict things that have not occurred. In Talib's Fooled by Randomness, he makes this point clear. I know this too, having studied math and stats in college. Take the 2008 crisis. A predictive model will make the assumption that, since in all observable history it has been trained on, there has never been a major decline in housing prices, that it must not be possible. That is a fundamental problem with statistical inference, and a big reason I think statistical inference is kinda crap. More data doesn't always make things better.
These models can only predict the future based on the past. But what if the past events had never happened before? What if we build a model that states that, since interest rates hadn't risen very aggressively in decades, that it was considered statistically impossible, or highly improbable, that they would rise again in the next few years. That model would've been crushed in 2022.
So relying purely on predictive models that break when shit really hits the fan is like trusting risk management to Bill Hwang.
What are your thoughts on OpenAI recently hiring ex bankers to train ChatGPT on how to build and use financial models?
Say in a world where AI is able to complete 50% of the analyst/entry level responsibilities of modeling, decks, research, emails, & etc. In my mind roles in high finance will still have the same hours and intensity but increased productivity. How do you think these entry level roles will change?
When computers and excel came out, people thought the role of bankers and analysts would straight up disappear. When the automation of exchanges happened in the 2000s, people thought traders would become extinct.
None of this ended up happening. The fact is that there is always going to be some grunt work banks need done to give young people the hours and reps so they can eventually become senior. The role will 100% change. Get familiar with Ai. Maybe check out a prompt engineering course or something. Being comfortable with Ai just means you have greater flexibility.
At the end of the day, banks and firms will hire people because of politics. Having no junior people working in your bank is just flat out bad for business long term. Juniors never ever pay for their own stay. Like, in my 7-8 years working in industry, I've met maybe 3 or 4 juniors where I thought the firm was actually making a profit on them. Most juniors are cost centers, but you keep them because they become revenue centers when they advance. Also, more importantly, if a bank refuses to hire juniors, another will hire them, and get more talented people. As a result, the bank that did hire the juniors is more likely to have talented senior people in 5+ years.
All these senior leaders saying Ai will take over are just doing so to get investor money. Reality is, they still have to hire juniors. They just need to figure out what to do with those juniors now.
Terence Tao is using LLMs rather effectively in his math research
Ultimately, it boils down to a skill issue. He already knows what he's looking for and thus knows how to guide it to what he already had in mind.
An incorrect preconception will be baked into the prompt which will steer the LLM into delusions. You have to be cautious using it when you don't already know all the ins and outs to a topic
The best/experienced will be able to utilize LLMs to achieve quality output in magnitudes greater than they otherwise could have
Your write up while nice reaches the wrong conclusion.
Standard transformers are O(n^2) but all the work has been focused on cutting some part of that down.
But the main reason is this applies to training and inferencing is different. KV-caches in inferencing use memory to reduce computational complexity to linear O(n)
Note though in your favor the compute of going from chat bots -> reasoning models is an order of magnitude more, and again going from reasoning -> agents. Then we have world models being developed starting with visual/spatial reasoning not language which obviously is orders of magnitude more compute again
Basically, we don’t know how technology will or won’t scale. If quantum is a thing or Moore’s law re-ignites it also changes the analysis
But the point is this - you can’t make long term assumptions about the world based on the technical performance of current architectures while so much may change in the future
True, the write up is a bit old and a lot of new papers have come out. The Deepseek model is the best example of this. Still, it remains that standard transformers are the underlying of everything else.
Once you use KV catches, you shift so much computation onto memory and the memory bandwidth. That significantly increases the initial investment cost of these things because you need a lot of HBM(and therefore a lot of Nvidia chips) to run LLMs. If you need a massive amount of GPUs just to store the context window of a conversation, the economics still make little sense.
My viewpoint on reasoning models has changed recently. Honestly, I think they're BS. I spoke to an old professor who does research on Ai, and his research on the reasoning models continually shows that they make basic errors. "Reasoning" models are basically just reinforcement learning, which has its own issues. I'm still of the viewpoint that anything that is just a predictive model will make too many mistakes to be reliably deployed independently. Having build predictive models ranging from the most basic regressions up to deep learning models, they still only predict things based on past data.
Moore's law is a bit tricky. I'd argue that the software and power constraints are a bit more common nowadays. Quantum, we don't even know how to write software for quantum computers yet.
Is that not kinda our whole jobs? To make predictions about the future based on well informed assumptions? It's not like I'm pulling this all out my ass. I worked in a research lab doing Ai work in college. I've built out predictive models at prop shops and at my current job. I still keep in contact with my professors who do LLM and Ai research. I read a lot of the new papers coming out. I'm making assumptions, sure, but not uninformed ones.
Spend more quality time with my fav Brooklyn artsy girl
(17 year age gap)
Either that or join the Mr.Do-gooder who is tryna use the peace corps as an excuse to chase african booty
Allen Iverson simply doesn't have the polish required to get a RO.
Do you even know your history?
Allen Iverson was a good bball player for sure, but realistically he can't do all of our jobs.
Why is everyone so interested in a random bball player from the early noughties all of a sudden?
Why would Shaq or MJ not take our jobs instead?
I’m not really worried. I’ll just go back to school and learn something useful.
So far AI is not even useful with Excel or PowerPoint work, so I don't think it'll take over consulting or banking in the near future
ehhh I've used AI to help me write some very helpful vba macros that I couldn't have done myself, at least not without months of training. But yeah I agree its nowhere near being able to completely replace human work in excel or PPT
Don’t think it’s far off tbh, though got my analysts using AI for all our strip profiles / one-pager profiles / other standardized filler language in decks. Prob saved a couple hours here and there.
Fwiw, banks have incredibly long vendor onboarding cycles given regulatory emphasis on various compliance practices. Think there’ll be a ~9-12 month period between when the tech exists to really build out the PPTs / models we use now via AI and when banks actually adopt and disseminate, but realistically feel it’s still going to be be like pinging your analyst asking them to do a task but it’s really an AI
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