For those who don’t like Trump, why?

Downloaded twitter again and it’s still a shitshow. Haven’t seen 1 argument that sounds legit as to why people still dislike trump. There’s January 6th which has been proven false, and there’s “he says mean words”.

All I can see that’s legit is he put family members in positions of power (Kushner), but Kushner did a fantastic job and there was legitimate peace in the Middle East.

I don’t see how anyone supports Biden - he can’t form a sentence and continuously acts creepy around kids.

 
Funniest

I guess you mean aside from trying to prevent a peaceful transfer of power, encouraging people to attack the Capitol and praising them for taking these actions, I guess he is okay.  

 

financeabc

I guess you mean from aside from trying to prevent a peaceful transfer of power, encouraging people to attack the Capitol and praising them for taking these actions, I guess he is okay.  

Literally not true but ok, just braindead parrot CNN why dontcha. And if you're going to argue that him claiming the election was stolen and trying to pursue legal avenues to address this (even if he is 100% wrong) I will kindly direct you to reaction of Democrats post-2016 who tried to overturn the election in many cases with the EXACT SAME METHODS.

Washington Post Sep 2019

Hillary Clinton dismissed President Trump as an “illegitimate president” and suggested that “he knows” that he stole the 2016 presidential election in a CBS News interview to be aired Sunday.

Hillary Clinton: "Trump knows he's an illegitimate president"

"The obedient always think of themselves as virtuous rather than cowardly" - Robert A. Wilson | "If you don't have any enemies in life you have never stood up for anything" - Winston Churchill | "It's a testament to the sheer belligerence of the profession that people would rather argue about the 'risk-adjusted returns' of using inferior tooth cleaning methods." - kellycriterion
 
PrivateTechquity 🚀GME+20230930-DK-🦋-1

financeabc

I guess you mean from aside from trying to prevent a peaceful transfer of power, encouraging people to attack the Capitol and praising them for taking these actions, I guess he is okay.  

Literally not true but ok, just braindead parrot CNN why dontcha. And if you're going to argue that him claiming the election was stolen and trying to pursue legal avenues to address this (even if he is 100% wrong) I will kindly direct you to reaction of Democrats post-2016 who tried to overturn the election in many cases with the EXACT SAME METHODS.

Washington Post Sep 2019

Hillary Clinton dismissed President Trump as an “illegitimate president” and suggested that “he knows” that he stole the 2016 presidential election in a CBS News interview to be aired Sunday.

https://www.youtube.com/embed/umsAhEFHFKA?start=57

https://www.youtube.com/embed/umsAhEFHFKA?start=57

I rarely watch news including CNN.  What exactly is false about what I said?  He convinced a group of people that storming the Capitol was a good idea. These people were inspired by Trump and some of these people claimed that they were doing it for Trump.  In addition to siding with dictators at the expense of the US, he praised the people who stormed the Capitol.  You can try to re-write history but that does not mean what I said is false.  He continues to praise our adversaries at the expense of our allies.  When Israel was attacked he praised terrorists and criticized the Israeli government.  

 
PrivateTechquity 🚀GME+20230930-DK-🦋-1

financeabc

I guess you mean from aside from trying to prevent a peaceful transfer of power, encouraging people to attack the Capitol and praising them for taking these actions, I guess he is okay.  

Literally not true but ok, just braindead parrot CNN why dontcha. And if you're going to argue that him claiming the election was stolen and trying to pursue legal avenues to address this (even if he is 100% wrong) I will kindly direct you to reaction of Democrats post-2016 who tried to overturn the election in many cases with the EXACT SAME METHODS.

Washington Post Sep 2019

Hillary Clinton dismissed President Trump as an “illegitimate president” and suggested that “he knows” that he stole the 2016 presidential election in a CBS News interview to be aired Sunday.

https://www.youtube.com/embed/umsAhEFHFKA?start=57

https://www.youtube.com/embed/umsAhEFHFKA?start=57

I mean, you must see the difference between Hillary Clinton saying, 3 years after the fact, that Mr Trump's election wasn't wholly legitimate due to widespread election interference from Russia, with Mr Trump calling up State Secretaries of State and asking them to "find" more votes for him.  Or, you know, using the bully pulpit of his office to declare an election invalid.

It's scary to me that people like you are willing to normalize violence if you can't win an election (in a system already heavily tilted towards favoring conservatives, no less).

 

Hillary bitched that she got 3 million more votes than trump but still lost because of how the Electoral College works. But she still accepted the outcome.

Anyone who compares Hillary’s complaining with January 6 is either stupid or a Trump supporter.

 

financeabc:

I guess you mean from aside from trying to prevent a peaceful transfer of power, encouraging people to attack the Capitol and praising them for taking these actions, I guess he is okay.  


You’re parroting stuff that’s been proven false. Are you just choosing to ignore the facts?

 
Arroz con Pollo

financeabc:

I guess you mean from aside from trying to prevent a peaceful transfer of power, encouraging people to attack the Capitol and praising them for taking these actions, I guess he is okay.  


You’re parroting stuff that’s been proven false. Are you just choosing to ignore the facts?

What exactly is false here.  Did Trump not try to over turn an election?  As recently as this month, he said he won all 50 states.  Do you believe he won all 50 states?  Do you think it is fiction that praised the people who attacked the Capitol. 

 
financeabc

I guess you mean from aside from trying to prevent a peaceful transfer of power, encouraging people to attack the Capitol and praising them for taking these actions, I guess he is okay.  

Unironically retorts with the most basic, perfectly practiced left wing talking point regurgitation there is on this topic. Nothing has happened the last 36 months guys and the return of the neolibs 

 
throwingawaytime
financeabc

I guess you mean from aside from trying to prevent a peaceful transfer of power, encouraging people to attack the Capitol and praising them for taking these actions, I guess he is okay.  

Unironically retorts with the most basic, perfectly practiced left wing talking point regurgitation there is on this topic. Nothing has happened the last 36 months guys and the return of the neolibs 

Is English your first language?   

 

financeabc

I guess you mean aside from trying to prevent a peaceful transfer of power, encouraging people to attack the Capitol and praising them for taking these actions, I guess he is okay.  

The fundamental question is, why did y'all hate Donald Trump before January 6? The guy is, at best, a moderate Republican. He's "anti-war", pro-gay, pro-Jew, an early supporter (arguably, one of the earliest and most fervent supporters in America) of the transgender movement, he engaged in record deficit spending, he successfully pushed liberal-supported/conservative opposed criminal justice reform, and he's been adored by the black community for much of his adult life (his name is in literally hundreds of rap songs). Trump has been a lifelong proponent of every moral vice that the American Left seems to love. And during Covid, Trump rolled over and allowed Democrat governors, mayors, and other elected officials to indulge in every authoritarian impulse they've ever had, without any real pushback. So, I've never understood the kind of hatred from the Left that Trump engenders.  

My strong opposition to Trump is really based in his awful post-election behavior that culminated in January 6. But your irrational hatred of Trump pre-dated these events. As a conservative, he was always too liberal for my tastes, but you take the good with the bad. You people have always hated him with your whole soul despite Trump being nothing more than a moderate Republican, little different than George H.W. Bush in policy.       

 
GregMadeMeDoIt

financeabc

I guess you mean aside from trying to prevent a peaceful transfer of power, encouraging people to attack the Capitol and praising them for taking these actions, I guess he is okay.  

My strong opposition to Trump is really based in his awful post-election behavior that culminated in January 6. But your irrational hatred of Trump pre-dated these events.      

Someone's dislike of Trump may seem irrational to you but probably half of voting citizens in the United States dislike him.  Are all of these people irrational or are you the one does not understand the basis for the dislike.  Trump is not pro Jew because his rhetoric led to a significant rise in antisemitism.  Trump is mostly pro Trump

Here are a few points for you to give you some insight

1. He is pretty much indifferent between truth and lies

2.  He was a multi time draft dodger

3. He alienated many of our allies with his America First arrogance

4. He sided with Putin on the world stage at the expense of his own intelligence 

5  With his rhetoric, he emboldened the ignorant element of the US to voice their opinions about minorities and other historically targeted groups

6 . Seems like to like dictators

7.  He does not seem all that bright to me

 

He's becoming a more attractive candidate relative to Biden by the day. Current polling suggests Trump would win in the key battleground states and win the presidency. Guess we'll see if Manchin runs and how well Kennedy does as well, there are some swing factors once you look at them in the aggregate

 
Sequoia

Guess we'll see if Manchin runs

is he really considering running? I saw it mentioned somewhere where I didn't take it seriously

Quant (ˈkwänt) n: An expert, someone who knows more and more about less and less until they know everything about nothing.
 

No. But one of the centrist parties, No Labels, wants to put him on a ballot with Mitt Romney. Both have said they’re not interested, citing that this generation needs younger leadership in the White House.

 

I'd never vote for him again. He encouraged people to storm our capital building. 

There's one thing we need above all else in the USA is to be formidable. 

I've never seen such an open public attack on our institutions.

I should of trusted my gut after the Mccain comments but Hilary is atrocious as well. 

He'll never be at the top of my ticket ever again. 

 
Most Helpful

This is coming from someone who voted for him in 2020 and plans to vote for him again in 2024. Below list is in no means comprehensive this is just off the top of my head.

A few character-based reasons: 

  • Scumbaggy/gives off conman vibes at times - hard to think of anyone in politics or who made their wealth in commercial RE that isn't in some form or fashion but that doesn't make it any less true.
  • Vulgar/boisterous  - how he presents just rubs a lot of people the wrong way and for some, especially those who base their decisions on emotion, that's enough to write him off.
  • Undeniably egotistical - the man will hold a grudge over anything he sees as a personal slight/attack. His reactions on Twitter to some stuff was kind of a perfect example of this. Sometimes extremely funny, sometimes uncomfortably petty. Not a fun dichotomy to see in a leader and a huge complaint many of his own supporters will express.

A few policy-based reasons:

  • Ran on draining the swamp/anti-establishment ticket; a big part of his draw was "I'm a good businessman. I can hire the right/best people for the job" - then he proceeded to hire many members of the swamp to be members of his cabinet e.g. John Bolton, Rex Tillerson, Mike Pompeo, William Barr, etc. (the list is REALLY long), all of whom proceeded to undermine or backstab him in some way as time went on. Reflects poorly on his leadership skills. His tolerance of/deference to Fauci during Covid given everything that's come out over the last 3 years is also pretty tough to not see as a massive failure on his part.
  • Ran on making govt. smaller - oversaw biggest single period of growth in government in terms of magnitude in history. Sure some of this could be attributed to "Covid was an emergency" and what not but that doesn't make it any less true. Biden has tried to blow past him on several occasions but to be honest I don't think has managed it yet, someone please chime in if I'm wrong.
  • Gun legislation - the bump stock ban and his support of red flag laws may not seem like a huge deal when juxtaposed with the insanity of Democrats but it crosses a hard line that a LOT of hardcore Republicans and Libertarians have drawn in the sand.
  • The Covid vaccine - he started Operation Warp speed, using government money to fund development but allowing the private sector to reap massive profits while retaining 0 liability and complete pricing power. That's fucked deal making right there. Say what you want about his supporters but they have booed him pretty intensely at every rally I've seen where he brings up the vaccine, how amazing it is, how it saved 100s of millions (based off the same shitty projections that had us thinking Covid would be 10x-20x worse in the beginning), and how he deserves the credit. This also ties back to his ego, being a "good businessman", and how he just WILL NOT let things go. 

A few popular culture-oriented reasons:

  • The phenomena of "default liberals" - no one can seriously argue that there is not a massive liberal/Democrat bias across all levels of schooling. Vast majority of teachers are women, majority of women are Democrats/support socially liberal causes, so it's just naturally going to impart that bias on kids going through the system who don't have an opposing environment at home. Those folks are will be your classic "vote blue no matter who" that understand nothing policy-wise and would gladly vote for George W. Bush or Dick Cheney if they switched parties and ran against Trump.
  • The media bias - if the corporate media says falsehoods often enough with enough conviction, to people who lack critical thinking/have inherent bias towards trusting those institutions will just believe it. This goes both ways for the dumbass shit Fox/OAN/NYP/DW says as well as CNN/MSNBC/WaPo/NYT. 2016 to today the latter groups have pumped out an astounding amount of lies/misrepresentations about him (when in reality there's plenty of real stuff they can attack him on).
  • The normi's pop culture bias - when not only major news networks but your favorite musicians, athletes, video games, etc. all start placing themselves into the politosphere, whether or not you agree with them it can piss you off. I personally know people who understand nothing about politics and don't particularly identify with either major party but were so irritated with Trump derangement syndrome stuff penetrating their hobbies/escapes from work that they voted for Biden just because they wanted it to go away. They don't care about politics at all they just want to be left alone and Democrats are much better at crying/complaining/being irritating as fuck across multiple channels of culture so it pisses them off and makes them want to give the criers what they want just so they'll go away. 
  • January 6th - anyone who has bothered to follow the court cases and evidence that has been coming out knows this was lied about. This was not an insurrection, a term used only by the media to inflame ignorant voters. The government in 0 cases has formally charged him with it because they can't. The now released videos from the capital show there was not some giant mob running through the capital wrecking everything. The media has flat out lied about and misrepresented this entire event for years now. But the retraction will never be large and wide enough, they will never admit their lies. The damage has been done and the way the event unfolded has poisoned millions against him regardless of what comes out now.
"The obedient always think of themselves as virtuous rather than cowardly" - Robert A. Wilson | "If you don't have any enemies in life you have never stood up for anything" - Winston Churchill | "It's a testament to the sheer belligerence of the profession that people would rather argue about the 'risk-adjusted returns' of using inferior tooth cleaning methods." - kellycriterion
 
PrivateTechquity 🚀GME+20230930-DK-🦋-1

T

  • January 6th - anyone who has bothered to follow the court cases and evidence that has been coming out knows this was lied about. This was not an insurrection, a term used only by the media to inflame ignorant voters. The government in 0 cases has formally charged him with it because they can't. The now released videos from the capital show there was not some giant mob running through the capital wrecking everything. The media has flat out lied about and misrepresented this entire event for years now. But the retraction will never be large and wide enough, they will never admit their lies. The damage has been done and the way the event unfolded has poisoned millions against him regardless of what comes out now.

I guess it depends on your definition of insurrection.  A violent mob broke into the Capitol for the purpose of stopping an election.  In the process, 5 people died and more than 100 police officers were injured  

 

What is your response to BLM riots that caused billions of dollars of damage? Trump told people to behave at the capitol

 
Controversial
Arroz con Pollo

What is your response to BLM riots that caused billions of dollars of damage? Trump told people to behave at the capitol

I mean, do you not see the difference?  BLM "riots" were mostly peaceful protests, to start with, and far more importantly, were an expression of a legitimate grievance which is hard to ignore.  The police and police unions are corrupt, violence at the hands of the police almost never results in actual repercussions for officers, and the police themselves go out of their way to lie or otherwise obfuscate the truth.  If the people who have a monopoly on state-sponsored violence are employing it against the populace, there isn't any other meaningful resolution.  Once again, it bears noting that the response was overwhelmingly to demonstrate peacefully.

There is a world of difference between that and launching a violent armed coup because you don't like that you aren't in the majority.  What, precisely, were the Jan 6th terrorists doing?  Either they decided that they were going to install a government of their preference by violence, or they had been consistently lied to and misled (which isn't much of an excuse, frankly) by their political representatives.  Since we know, positively, that there was no "steal" in 2020, it means you either believe that most of the Republican political class, from Donald Trump on down, deserve a lot of time in prison, or that the people on the scene do.  Unsurprisingly, Mr Trump and his cronies have decided to let others do the time.

To reiterate - BLM began because there was a long history, which wasn't getting better, of the police murdering people, and disproportionately people of color.  "I'm in fear for my life because a group of gun-wielding bullies with zero accountability can and do take the opportunity to murder innocent people with dark skin on a regular basis" is a lot fucking different than "I am going to impose my beliefs on others by violence even though most people don't agree with me."

If you cannot see the difference between those two positions... well, some people love the boot, as long as it's pressing down on someone else's neck.

 
PrivateTechquity 🚀GME+20230930-DK-🦋-1
  • The phenomena of "default liberals" - no one can seriously argue that there is not a massive liberal/Democrat bias across all levels of schooling. Vast majority of teachers are women, majority of women are Democrats/support socially liberal causes, so it's just naturally going to impart that bias on kids going through the system who don't have an opposing environment at home. Those folks are will be your classic "vote blue no matter who" that understand nothing policy-wise and would gladly vote for George W. Bush or Dick Cheney if they switched parties and ran against Trump

"There are way more Democrats" does not equal "there is a bias towards Democrats in society."  And no shit women are likely to be liberals; when one side of the aisle says "you are human cattle" and the other says "hey, maybe we don't have a right to tell you what to do with your body" then yeah, you'll see a lot of people opt for the latter.  This is what always makes me scratch my head about conservatives, especially the few smart ones - you see things like this, statistics or facts that show you that whatever policy position you hold (of which there are few anymore) is extremely unpopular, and you think that "hey, this isn't fair, other people need to respect my opinion."  And not, you know... "this awful and outmoded position needs to be changed or abandoned if we want to keep winning elections without a putsch."

Academia and education are "liberal" for the very basic reason that it has been a very long time since the most influential parts of the conservative wing of America have had any respect for science or education in the first place.  If you want teachers to skew more centrist or liberal in their personal politics, maybe don't insist on teaching Creationism in schools.  If you want them to vote Republican, maybe don't eviscerate public teacher's unions and then expect the people whose wages and benefits and jobs you're cutting to vote for you.  If you want academics to take you seriously, maybe get serious about addressing issues like anthropogenic climate change.  You don't have to accept any of this, of course, but you simply cannot sit there in good faith and say "facts I don't agree with don't count, why can't we just accept my version?"

  • The media bias - if the corporate media says falsehoods often enough with enough conviction, to people who lack critical thinking/have inherent bias towards trusting those institutions will just believe it. This goes both ways for the dumbass shit Fox/OAN/NYP/DW says as well as CNN/MSNBC/WaPo/NYT. 2016 to today the latter groups have pumped out an astounding amount of lies/misrepresentations about him (when in reality there's plenty of real stuff they can attack him on).

Well most of the liberal outlets make some semblance of being journalists, which explicitly is not the case for the conservative ones.  Massive difference right there.  I think there is little question anymore that conservative "news" media is explicitly a propaganda arm of the Republican Party; while liberal outlets may be hostile to conservative points of view and friendly to liberals, you simply don't see prominent media personalities campaigning in the way that Sean Hannity did/does, for example.

And frankly, if the voters didn't care 7 years ago that Mr Trump was a bigot and a criminal grifter with barely any remaining mental acuity, why bother harping on those things?  If voters didn't care 4 years ago or since that Mr Trump used his office to enrich himself and his family in direct violation of the Constitution, or that he was hoarding classified documents, the only possible reason for which was to sell them, then why would they care now?

  • The normi's pop culture bias - when not only major news networks but your favorite musicians, athletes, video games, etc. all start placing themselves into the politosphere, whether or not you agree with them it can piss you off. I personally know people who understand nothing about politics and don't particularly identify with either major party but were so irritated with Trump derangement syndrome stuff penetrating their hobbies/escapes from work that they voted for Biden just because they wanted it to go away. They don't care about politics at all they just want to be left alone and Democrats are much better at crying/complaining/being irritating as fuck across multiple channels of culture so it pisses them off and makes them want to give the criers what they want just so they'll go away. 

That last statement is obviously untrue, and you know it.  Be better.  I am not claiming Republicans are better victims... but the idea that Democrats are somehow professional victims is just another propaganda line from the GOP.  Is there anyone who has played the victim card longer or with less reason than Mr Trump himself?  He was the most powerful person on the planet for four years, and spent most of that time engaging in petty dishonesty and then complaining that he was a victim when his mendacity was inevitably pointed out.  Mr Biden seems to have more cause for complaint, and done less complaining, given the constant attempts to blame him for the actions of his son, for example.

There are more Democrats/liberals, so I guess statistically you're more likely to hear about them complaining, but in no way shape or form can you come even close to proving that Democrats are better at crying/complaining.

  • January 6th - anyone who has bothered to follow the court cases and evidence that has been coming out knows this was lied about. This was not an insurrection, a term used only by the media to inflame ignorant voters. The government in 0 cases has formally charged him with it because they can't. The now released videos from the capital show there was not some giant mob running through the capital wrecking everything. The media has flat out lied about and misrepresented this entire event for years now. But the retraction will never be large and wide enough, they will never admit their lies. The damage has been done and the way the event unfolded has poisoned millions against him regardless of what comes out now.

A crowd of people showed up at Mr Trump's express urging (and yes, there are plenty of tweets telling people to gather) who had their insane grievances stoked by Mr Trump claiming the election was "stolen", and those people proceeded to murder a man on their way to find any politician they can get their hands on in order to force them, at gunpoint, to change the results of a free and fair election.  What part of that is "misrepresented"?  No, Mr Trump is not in writing or recording anywhere demanding that the mob he summoned explicitly use violence to maintain him in power.  If that is your standard, then very few people will ever go to jail for anything.

If you don't have the honesty to openly state that a violent mob stormed the US Capitol Building in order to impose their will on the country, then you aren't debating in good faith.  Mr Trump bears some responsibility for that.  Had he accepted the results of his electoral loss, it would not have happened, and since we know that he knew that his claims of election fraud were lies, we can hold him at least partially responsible for the coup that was attempted in his name

 

I don’t hate him or love him. He’s an “OK” politician like most Presidents (some of his policies I agree with, others not so much).

I think it’s his personal side that irks a lot of people. Example include:

- Weird relationship with Ivanka. Going on live TV and telling people that he’d date Ivanka if she weren’t his daughter is just creepy, regardless of your politics.

- Unnatural obsession with Obama’s birth certificate. Maybe it was all for show and he didn’t really believe Obama was born in Kenya, but either way it was over the top IMHO.

- Overt nepotism and prioritizing family over the country. For example, after Trump met Xi early in his first term, Ivanka’s trademarks got approved in China. Too much of a coincidence? Also, sending Jared Kushner to Iraq as a Middle East envoy (see pic with him in khakis + blazer + bulletproof vest) is just bizarre - surely there are better candidates.

This is not to say that Democrats are all angels. Biden’s got weird grandpa vibes, Hunter Biden is shady, and various women’s allegations against Bill Clinton is straight up criminal (far worse than Trump).

 
WagyuSteak


- Overt nepotism and prioritizing family over the country. For example, after Trump met Xi early in his first term, Ivanka’s trademarks got approved in China. Too much of a coincidence? Also, sending Jared Kushner to Iraq as a Middle East envoy (see pic with him in khakis + blazer + bulletproof vest) is just bizarre - surely there are better candidates.

He clearly views both America and Americans as marks to be mulcted, and nothing more.  Which is unsurprising from a guy whose only real successes have been frauds perpetrated against others.  That means a lot to me.  I may not agree with every policy of elected officials, but until recently I would have said that most of them at least came by their opinions honestly and thought they were doing what is right.

This is not to say that Democrats are all angels. Biden’s got weird grandpa vibes, Hunter Biden is shady, and various women’s allegations against Bill Clinton is straight up criminal (far worse than Trump).

Right.  Joe Biden is old is the worst thing about him?  And Hunter Biden isn't even worth discussing.  He's not an elected official, he's not an appointed official (a la some of Mr Trump's progeny), he's just a guy looking to capitalize on his dad's fame and influence.  Which is reprehensible, to be sure, but I am always amazed by this idea that someone he reflects poorly on Democrats instead of himself.  If Mr Biden puts him in charge of the peace process in the Middle East, for example, then we can talk.

And yes, Bill Clinton is a criminal and a sleazebag and should've been locked up a long time ago.  He also hasn't had the slightest shred of political relevance for decades; arguably since 2008.

 

Going to try to explain this in the least politically entrenched way possible.

From a personality standpoint, how could you even begin to rationalize/calculate likeability… The exact attributes that make people love him, are the very same ones that cause others to detract. People will always be drawn to and from certain characteristics, behaviors, and demeanors, none of which need to be “justified” because there simply isn’t an objective standard to begin with. Historically, American voters have held a certain appeal for a handsome charasmatic “guy-next-door”figure, this dates back to the first televised debate with JFK. Anyone in PR or broader mass comm space can tell you that image/appearance matters.

What exactly about Jan. 6 are you asserting has been “proven false”? Our government operates on multiple levels so though the senate acquitted him, the investigating panel has turned over their findings to the DOJ with their reccomendations. This is an ongoing case for federal prosecutors. Additionally for legal ideology’s sake… there is a difference between “proven false” and failing to convict.
We also can’t ignore the legal action being taken against him in New York, Georgia, and Florida for various reasons.

 

I don’t see how anyone supports Biden - he can’t form a sentence and continuously acts creepy around kids.

I happen to agree with this sentiment, but... how can you possibly sit here and make that complaint about Biden in a thread broadly supportive of Mr Trump?  You know, the guy who brags about sexually assaulting women and who has been accused into the dressing room of naked teenagers completely unannounced?  You want to read all of this creepy energy into Mr Biden's conduct (which as I said I think is a credible inference) and then just ignore the fact that Mr Trump was deliberately seeking out teenagers to stare at?  Dislike Mr Biden all you want, but as a human being he's a freaking saint compared to Mr Trump.

And again, to sit there and tell me Joe Biden cannot complete a sentence and hold up Donald Trump as some kind of model of eloquence, even relatively, is laughable.  Mr Trump can't string a sentence together, either!  It's just word vomit.

All I can see that’s legit is he put family members in positions of power (Kushner), but Kushner did a fantastic job and there was legitimate peace in the Middle East.

What peace in the Middle East are you talking about?  What "fantastic job"?  You mean when we bribed a bunch of Middle Eastern nations to make some bare semblance of a gesture towards Israel, whose government is actively involved in some blatantly illegal colonizing?  Mr Kushner failed - which is no reflection on him, seeing as no one else has succeeded, but to call his work in the Middle East a "fantastic job" when it fell apart within a handful of years is just insanity.  I mean, the Abraham Accords were signed in September 2020.  So arguably Mr Biden has been more successful than Mr Trump in this regard, since there were 3 years 2.5 years of peace under his Administration versus half a year (or less) under Mr Trump's.

Mr Kushner failed, through no fault of his own.  He shouldn't have been in charge of it in the first place; he was comically unqualified for the job, like most Trump appointees, and was put in place because no matter what he did or didn't achieve, the Trump Administration would call it a historic peace deal and keep the credit within the family.

As I've said before, and elsewhere on this thread, I simply do not see how anyone can vote for a person who is so obviously only interested in being in government so that they can profit to the greatest possible degree from that role.  Mr Trump's habitual (and seemingly reflexive) mendacity and his penchant for framing any opposition at all as either illegitimate or unjustified has degraded the entire concept of our democracy to such an extent that it's difficult to see how to rebuild trust.  The fact that an entire political wing of this country is totally in thrall to one person, and again, a person with a long history of lying and of demanding extra-judicial punishment for his enemies while demanding immunity for himself, is a real issue.  And it's one that only exists on the right.  Donald Trump is the GOP, which is their own fault of course for encouraging him, and his word is law to the American right wing in a way that makes me uncomfortable, regardless of whom it is.  The slavish devotion and rush to pay obeisance to Mr Trump is unhealthy

 

You can say a lot of things about Trump, but I don't think he's a racist. His black and Hispanic voting rate is higher than any other Republican president's and his border policies are quite popular across the country.

 
LeveragedBuoy

He divided America, that was its biggest strength. Also politicized covid which fucked the recovery.

I miss the days when political figures weren’t people’s personalities

Are you...is this for real? Trump divided America? America was politically unified before Trump? The Democrats announced impeachment efforts BEFORE Trump was sworn in to office. The Democrats punitively shutting down the country, blaming Trump for Covid and the resulting bad economy, calling Trump a racist for noticing that the Chinese unleashed Covid on the world, and changing election laws to benefit Democrats--that's not politicizing Covid? Unreal. It's like we live on two different planets. 

 

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