Getting into a target school is extraordinarily hard
Ivies - Every ivy acceptance rate is under 10% except Cornell which is 10.6%, Harvard is at 4.5% NYU Stern - 8% MIT - 6.7% Stanford - 3.35%!! Uchicago - 5.9% Duke - 10.6% UVA Out of state - 19% Ross - 12% Georgetown - 14.5%
Should I continue?
If you have a sub 1400 SAT and sub 3.7 UW GPA I would say your chances of getting into any of these schools is nearing 0% if you're an unhooked applicant (meaning you aren't a URM, legacy, donator, recruit)
Get a 1500 SAT. Hit the books nonstop until you can score that high. Then you'll have fine chances.
doesn’t quite work like that... i got a 1550 sat and was still rejected from my fair share of schools.
Very true, but you'll get in somewhere decent.
Lmao I wish it was that easy. I had a 1540, got rejected/waitlisted from every target. Granted my extracurriculars were pretty shit so that's probably why.
The SAT isn't that hard of a test. High SAT/GPA is the norm for top schools, if the top schools wanted to they could fill their class many times over with just 99th percentile scorers. Get a high SAT/GPA but then distinguish yourself in some way through unique extracurriculars (ie. founding a startup, nonprofit, not some generic bs like anime club president). Also if you're Asian do all of this but 10x more religiously because you're heavily fucked over in the admissions process
...ok?
Hahah I was waiting for a punchline... still am
I've never found these stats particularly surprising or noteworthy. Do you think more than 1 in 15 or so people you meet on main street are Ivy League material? Cause I certainly don't.
Just the general quality standard you'd expect of an Ivy student, seems pretty self explanatory
Not everybody on the street applies to the Ivy Leagues...
I've made this point before but I'll make it again. Acceptance rates don't mean shit and do not truly reflect how challenging it is to get into a top school. In the UK people apply to uni with the UCAS system which only allows you to make 5 choices (ranging from the same choosing the same course at 5 different unis to choosing 5 different courses at the same uni and anything in between). So for the sake of argument, let's compare H/Y/P to Oxbridge. If both groups have an entry requirement of a 3.8 GPA (as a example, I don't know what the true entry requirement is), in the UK only people who think they have a realistic shot at getting in will apply. Otherwise you essentially loose a place that could have gone to a more realistic application. In the US, there doesn't seem to be a limit to the number of colleges you can apply to so anyone who can cough up a couple hundred dollars for the application and has a pulse can technically apply. Not saying they do, but if you were to look at the GPAs of H/Y/P applicants in the US I think it would be safe to say that anyone with a 3.4+ GPA would probably give it a shot. In the UK you would only have those with 3.8s (maybe some 3.7s if they think their ECs can carry them) applying to Oxbridge. This is why both Oxford and Cambridge have acceptance rates ~20%. Not because they take any asshole with a pulse, but because their entire pool of applicants would be the equivalent to the top 10% or 5% of US students.
TL;DR: Yes, Ivy League or target schools are hard to get into, but since you do not have an application number cap in the US the amount of REALISTIC competition you have is lower than the perceived competition.
+1 for accuracy. UK bloke here. i got rejected by Cambridge & UCL but got accepted by LSE. acceptance rates are not a good yardstick for your chances.
granted, the US is not the UK, by i say shoot your shot & see what hits.
In the USA many do not even apply to these schools because they know they have such a little chance.
Agreed, I would assume those with less than a 3.4 GPA may not do so. But I imagine that moonshot applications are more common in the US because the consequences of not getting in are minimal. In the UK, wasting a spot on a moonshot application essentially decreases your chance of simply going to university by 20%. Much higher risk. And this is evident in other cases where you don't have checks and balances e.g. job applications.
congrats on Oxbridge.
the thing is very little us students want to leave to go to Oxbridge, while very many British students would consider coming to the states to go to school.
secondly, Oxbridge recruiting gets blown out of the water by hypsm in terms of the quality of placements. there are just a lot better placements coming from a top target in the states.
no one in the states really considers Oxbridge or lse into our rankings because we just don’t care about them. they aren’t there in super days or interviews, they’re doing their own thing in europe.
There's a fair amount of inaccuracy or misleading statements in your comment so I'll approach them in order. Firstly, I actually agree with you. No doubt more British students may want to go to US schools compared to the other way around. This is also because the US has more "elite schools" as you say. Even as an UG, once you've removed LSE or Oxbridge others such as KCL, ICL or UCL are good but not comparable to Yale, Stanford etc. So I agree with you there.
As for the placement thing, I assume you're talking about IB. There are a couple of points to consider here. The first is that most applicants will keep to their local markets (US students mainly to the US and EU students mainly to the EU). Thing is, in the US you have many more spots available simply because you can hire people without restrictions in more cities (NYC, Boston, LA, SF, Dallas, Houston etc). In the UK you really only have London with a handful of jobs in Manchester. As for the broader EU, you have language limitations for cities like Frankfurt, Paris, Madrid or Milan. So if you look at how many of these top tier students place into BBs or EBs, then yes the numbers are higher in the US. But not necessarily because they're better, its because its easier and you have fewer restrictions.
Another thing that impacts IB placement is educational background. In the US you "go to college" and can pretty much mix and match subjects. In the end, the school you went to matters more than what you studied. Since in British schools (and European ones for that matter) you enroll in a specific course, that limits your ability to end up in IB because they take people only from certain courses (business, finance, maths etc) which in turn increases competition for those courses. Yes, you occasionally have some geography or history people finding their way into IB but that's rare. Since in the UK the balance of course and brand name is more equal than in the US, you have fewer people able to get in.
As for the "not considering them in our rankings" point, we both know that's not true. And I'll admit that because its the same on the EU side. If I scan a CV from Brown or Cornell, whilst they may not be H/Y/P/S I still go "ooo Cornell, let me read a bit more". And I know this for a fact because at my firm I coordinate recruitment for Juniors and we have some US people coming from target UK and EU schools which are often at the top of the CV pile for NYC, Boston and SF.
And just to be clear, I don't mean to shit on US target schools. Everyone knows they're great, tough to get in to and give you excellent preparation. The whole point of my initial comment and subsequent replies was that people need to look at the numbers in more detail and not break an arm jerking themselves off because they got into a school with a "4% acceptance rate".
...
Would agree. Unless you have a hook mentioned, its virtually impossible. The students who get in based truly on merit are exceptional.
One thing I've noticed with US schools is that you can apply to as many as you want. Many European countries, in contrast, have systems where you can only apply to 3-4-5 different studies / schools - so you need to be a lot more sure on your picks.
So in a sense, these ultra-low acceptance rates are inflated. Not bad PR for schools, as they can come off as more selective.
Right, but it still costs $100+ just to apply to one school so it's not as inflated as you might think.
It's also interesting for out of state versus in state acceptances. It's really not something you can control where you grow up, really a function of whichever family you're born into.
There's also schools that are not target but, as a result of close proximity to something, feed into that school naturally.
It's really not hard to hit above a 1400 SAT and a 3.7 GPA if you put in a tiny bit of effort. There are tens of thousands of kids who get into Ivy League and Ivy League level schools every year. People act like you have no shot if you aren't an URM, athlete, or legacy. Me and tons of others I know weren't any of the three and got in just fine. Again, tens of thousands of spots, put in the work and stop making excuses - Top Ivy (HYP) grad.
It's not that hard to get a top score on the SATs. Take all the tests in the Blue Book, and then if you still need practice, take all of the tests from other reputable sources like the Princeton Review. Then go through every single wrong answer, and understand why you got it wrong, so you'll know for next time. I got a 2300 in 2016. I was doing practice tests back in my second year of high school. Then you have to make sure you're covered with interesting extra-curricular activities too, which is a whole other ballgame.
It's a grind, I remember how stressed I was in high school, but it just requires a bit of grit and determination.
Sweet humble brag - I also went to a top Ivy (HYP), and its hard to get in, so to say its not is extremely arrogant and makes you sound like an idiot.
"It's really not hard to hit above a 1400 SAT and a 3.7 GPA if you put in a tiny bit of effort" So anyone who doesn't have a 1400 SAT / 3.7 GPA didn't put in any effort, and is making excuses for themselves?
Great attitude, I'm sure you work really well with other people who didn't go HYP...
Jumping off of what you’re staring too is another interesting factor: your surroundings. Not saying we are all products of our environments but sometimes people completely don’t know what they don’t know.
My fiancée didn’t even realize there were prep courses for the SAT because they weren’t offered at her high school. She didn’t realize she could retake the test because nobody told her. She grew up in a poor area and everyone advised against student loans. The local state school was her only option from the start. She got accepted into much higher ranked universities but cost was the determining factor.
She never considered IB obviously. So school ranking didn’t really matter. She was told that a college degree is a college degree. She graduated summa cum laude because she’s smart, so intelligence and work ethic aren’t the only determining factors.
One could argue, “Well she should have known.” And that’s sort of fair. But it’s easy to not know what you don’t know if you’re the first one in your family to go to college and go to high school in a very poor area and not stumble across US News rankings.
I think this is kinda bullshitty. I had a 3.9 UW GPA and a 1560 equivalent SAT (this was the days of 2400 scale SAT), and I didn't even get into any schools in the top 25. To be fair, I wasn't looking for IB target schools, so I didn't apply to any of the public Ivys, but great GPA and SAT is definitely not enough to get into an Ivy. You absolutely need standout extracurriculars and a strong narrative as well.
If you seriously think this is how the process works how the fuck did you get in lol
Perfect GPA/SATs are a dime a dozen these days, they mean next to nothing for t20 admissions since nearly anyone who's a quarter intelligent and decently motivated can get a top score. Once you get a 1500+, the focus shifts to your extracurriculars, essays, and personal factors like URM, legacy, interesting background, etc. SAT is merely used to confirm you can handle the workload and won't drop out after a semester.
I mean of course its hard to get in, but to say every target school student is extraordinary is false. Given how big a part legacy plays, it really depends. According to a quick google search from 2009-2015 legacy acceptance rate was 34%
Well yeah that's the point of a public state university in the US, to serve its state taxpayers with higher education. U-M, UVa, UT-Austin, UNC Chapel Hill, Georgia Tech all hover around a 40% in-state acceptance rate. UCLA and Berkeley are the outliers
Who wants to move to Michigan though
URM or ORM? Probably plays the biggest factor in whether you get accepted.
Looks like someone is salty after this year's round of acceptances...
I think the acceptance rates are generally misleading. If you look at the acceptance rates now, vs say even in the early 2000s, there is a marked difference. It’s not that more kids are simply smarter, but rather that they are just applying to more schools, which then lowers the acceptance rate overall for everywhere.
Man lands on moon
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