This is pretty interesting, depending upon how you look at the numbers. According to a recent PWC survey, 48% of graduates born since 1980 and working in finance are looking for new jobs. While that might sound shocking, I chalk it up to the nature of always being open to a better opportunity and not necessarily being dissatisfied with where you're at. However, 21% said they wanted out of the industry due to the reputational hit Wall Street has taken since 2008. That I did find curious. How big a deal is finance's reputation to you guys? Most of the recent posts about leaving Wall Street have been about how the hours suck and you have no life. Is banking's current "bad name" a factor for you at all?
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i could not care less about the reputation, around here its still the same old lifestyle sucks thing that causes people to go
The whole reputation thing is just jealousy of outside people in my opinion
Nobody should feel any need to apologize for where they work. I don't judge my non-finance friends in the slightest, and vice versa.
Unfortunately, that seems to be the exception, not the rule.
I own a recruiting firm and I get a lot of resumes from NYC from people around my age looking for jobs. They range from the state school kid to the top ivy kid.
I called a guy yesterday who on paper would never be interested in what I had to offer and he jumped all over it. People are def not happy in their current seat at most places.
I find the 1-3 out of college crowd tougher to move then the 28-32 crowd. Brand still means a lot to the young pro and $$ means a lot to the older pro
I come from an advertising background, in the beginning I loved it so much, maybe because I was working at a start up and landed a few accounts and had lots of responsibilities, and maybe because I was amazed by how humans behavior change to external stimuli. When I moved on to a huge agency, I couldn't stand working there, partly because I gained a true understanding of what the ad people do: They manipulate the masses and screw their clients by giving them straight lies in a sugar rimmed glass; and so I quit.
Now that I am in a different industry that I love and believe is doing a great service, I get offended when others, especially the outsiders bash it and say bad things. Bottom line: If they think wall street is not for them because it has a bad rep while they don't have a deep understanding of the industry then they are not right for street to begin with. If they work for a couple of years and then decide to do something else because it doesn't comply with their ethics and beliefs, then kudos for them.
[quote=Edmundo Braverman]Is banking's current "bad name" a factor for you at all? quote]
Short answer: nope. I'm proud of what I do, and genuinely believe it adds value to society. FTW
Honestly, no the reputation we have in finance doesn't bother me. I believe that people who think poorly of us don't understand the role banking fills in our economy. Nothing's perfect.
With that said, I really don't think I could ever work for Goldman Sachs after all the negative press on them. I wouldn't be able to look my midwestern family members who were devastated by the crisis in the eye if I told them I worked for Goldman. That's an ethical issue for me.
This doesn't seem like an ethical issue to me; it sounds reputational. If it were truly an ethical issue, you would realize that you did your family more harm if you had worked at Bear, Lehman, Merrill, Citi, AIG, etc. and probably not work in finance. You are worried more about tying your name to the media scapegoat which, at least in my opinion, is more about reputation.
I know exactly one person who's concience was bugging them and quit, and they frankly sucked at what they did and lost people's money. I hear people say all the time "I'd never work for GS blah blah blah".....
BULLSHIT
We came here to get paid and prove ourselves, and if a better paying / exit ops group called you, you'd be in like flyn, simple as that. When the grind starts to get old as hell, the credibility here makes it easy to jump ship to a less shitty lifestyle.
Point in case: grad programs that wouldn't even talk to me a few years ago have accepted me without even a formal review, and I now thumb my nose at companies that did the same to me. I'll probably leave here in a year or so, and I have far more options since having worked here....and I never even did anything all that special here. Will I get into HBS? Who cares. I'm not some loser bartender knocking on the door, I'm a professional who's looking for a lifestyle upgrade....easy sell. Now I just gotta figure out what the hell I want to do. How hilariouos would it be if 20 years from now I was back at the same firm, but actually enjoying it?
But to answer the question: the only people openly disrespecting finance types, in my experience, is OWS. Even if someone doesn't like us, they'll have to admit that we're harder working and more focused than the average employee in many industries. This type of respect is what I came here for.....great success
Well said.
There's something to be said for loyalty, but my definition of loyalty is 24 months- enough time for an employer to break even, risk-adjusted, off an average employee. (You're a good employee, so he deserves to make some profit off of you.)
As for finding fulfillment in work, I'm proud of my work product, but I'm not quite as proud of the secondary and tertiary effects of my work. I think I would feel a bit better at an F500 industrial firm. It is never really a bad thing to help keep the machinery of civilization running.
Well, now people know (or they think they know) what investment bankers are. Pre-crisis, nobody did.
Its poor reputation never really affected my choice. At the time, I figured it was temporary; it still might be. Regardless, I am not spending my career in IBD, so it doesn't matter to me.
Yea, I feel really bad about the Barista thinking I don't add value while they slap together my coffee in the morning...
As a finance vet (did my analyst stint in '05 - '08) my view is I'm not necessarily concerned about the "reputational hit" (i.e. I'm not embarrassed to tell people I work in finance), but I do think the "magic" is largely gone. When I was an IB analyst, my world was finance, and I think it was the same for my analyst buddies. Yes the hours were bad, but the prevailing thought was we were breaking into the golden gates. There was a sense we were on top of the world, and there was no doubt the path we were on was THE path (see http://www.leveragedsellout.com/2007/07/breaks-in-the-track/). Jobs at PE shops were coveted like nothing else. There probably wasn't a day that went by where we didn't talk about breaking into the buyside like it was akin to getting picked-up in the first round of the NFL draft. And underlying it all was the feeling that the system worked - the analytical work you did mattered, and deals or investments could be broken down somewhat "scientifically." In other words your work product was valuable (yes of course there were nonsense pitches but I'm speaking on the whole) and there was a foundation on which you could build a meaningful career.
The collapse of 2008 changed all of that. It exposed the weaknesses of the deal business model (both on the PE and banking sides) and its aftermath underscored the fact that deals were less investment science and more a matter of finding a greater fool to whom you could pawn off assets. Trying to rip-off the next guy before the music stops is a lot less interesting of a career choice, and it isn't sustainable long term. Further, it demands a different skill set than the one many young people signed-up to develop. All said, I think the overall sentiment is there isn't really a long term future in finance in its present state, hence the willingness and desire of many young people to take their wares elsewhere.
I think you'd be kidding yourself if you said that reputation wasn't a factor in your job choice. Despite its somewhat unsavory moments, people continue to clamor to get into finance because even though it may appear immoral to some, its still sexy. It's still very much driven by the archetypal alpha male who gets things done and pulls in the big bucks. This image may diminish but it won't go away, and it will continue to drive people into finance. Now that tech is sexy though, people are clamoring to get into that as well. They want to be the next Zuckerberg and have a movie made about them, then IPO.
For the masses, the equation remains relatively simple when it comes to job choice. It's a combination of the image that you want to portray during your job, and the power and prestige you want to convey once you've reached your goals. For me, I just want to do something intellectually challenging and interesting--money will come and go during my lifetime--being engaged and excited about life won't.
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While I don't disagree that the finance industry adds value to society, what do you guys think about HOW finance adds value? I believe it's an open secret that how things get done in finance are not the most ethical: you edit the model fit the client's needs as opposed to making a 'true' model, you promote stocks because of relationships, etc.
Do the ends justify the means? Does it matter that the methods to reach the goal are ethically questionable?
I don't mean to say this behavior is solely confined to finance, but I do believe that for anyone in the industry, it's a bigger open secret (relative to other industries) that some questionable things are done to get what you/the firm/the client wants.
Just playing devil's advocate...
Look at an IPO: who are the clients? The offering? The investors? The banks backers? ....ALL OF THEM ARE.
The company going public wants to get the highest prices possible. The buyside wants the biggest discount possible. The bank is putting its neck out and hopes to make a profit.
The bankers are juggling several competing agendas and selling people on how it makes sense for everyone to collaborate with the goal of everyone coming out ahead. Otherwise, the system doesn't work so well. Some people fail to understand this.
I don't give a sh*t about finance's reputation. Almost all my friends are in finance or borderline finance, others work great jobs and are intelligent enough to understand the industry.
Can't take the heat ? Get the Fcuk out of the Kitchen ! Good ! More job openings and opportunities for the rest of us !
I heard being a hipster is prestigious and adds value to society. I am going to move to Williamsburg, start painting and drink PBR.
You guys are hilarious.
Finance has NEVER been prestigious. Never ever ever has the general population thought financiers/bankers/brokers/traders "add value to society". The finance industry has been vilified throughout history, and if you've been successful, it's because you've done something illicit/nefarious.
If you think society thinks otherwise, you are isolated from reality.
See, now you just went and made the job sound cool.
That's because it IS cool.
most of the ppl who look down on Wall Street know nothing about finance so why would anyone care about their opinion? Pretty much every professional industry fucks ppl over in some way (lawyers, doctors, etc.). The only reason finance gets the bad rep is because you're literally handling money, as opposed to some other service where the money is a by-product and not the service itself.
Who cares about reputation, I'm here to get paid
When I saw 'i want to go into investment banking' people i tell still go 'wow'.
I don't get what alternatives there are to finance...? (in terms of prestige)
If you were born after the mid-80's, prestige is beating the market on your own, entrepreneurship, growing a startup, and just having control of your life.
Everyone has always hated bankers. Mr. Monopoly, Mr. Potter from It's a Wonderful Life, Scrooge (rich finance dude), etc. This idea that people ever liked those in finance is comical.
Where does it stem? From jealousy and from interacting with branch people. Get turned down for a loan? Hate bankers (BO, FO, MO, Tellers, Advertising people at a bank, anyone with a bank on their paycheck).
People are irrational little babies. It is the banks fault you are losing your house, not the fact that you haven't made a payment in 2 years or the fact that you failed to read the doc of pay 200 bucks for a legal review during your lawful 3 day cool down period. The blame game of life.
If you want to be loved go save abandoned animals. You work in finance because you want to get paid.
nope. we all knew what we were getting into...it wasnt exactly saving lives. i would use "reputation" as an excuse if I didnt want my peers to know Im lazy or burnt out and use the "moral high ground" as a scapegoat hahaha
I'm just waiting for the day when 12 yr old day laborers in China will be spreading comps
I'm with labanker on this one. It isn't so much what other people think about Wall Street, but moreso the realization that I am involved in a dying industry. The "cool" factor is gone and I do think the industry will further collapse in upon itself, at least in the near-term. Years have passed since the crisis, but people are getting constantly fired, compensation is being pulled in, and the levels of excess are far gone.
I'm a trader, have a brother at a BB for banking, and a best friend in PWM. We all think the outlook is pretty bleak in our respective fields. For people who think BB is risk-free high-income career with easy exit opps, all my brother tells me about is the massive lay-offs, restructurings, and of too many people clamoring for too few exits. Nobody is dumping money into PMW right now, people are still scared and on the sidelines. Algo trading is cannibalizing itself with the retail investors staying at home.
As for me, I'd be lying if there weren't days when I wonder what the hell I'm doing. I love the job, but what would a firefighter do if he woke up to a world where there weren't any fires anymore?
I think that for a lot of people, the grass is always greener. Two years after I graduated, I watched almost every one of my peers change employers, or at least try to change employers. The tax guys all wanted to go into accounting. The accounting guys all wanted to leave the big four. The marketing folks were switching jobs every six months. The IT guys were shocked at how boring their jobs were. The consultants were all sick of travel and ready to go back to school. Nobody was happy!!!
Bankers of course are no exception to this. After two years of grueling hours doing mind numbing work, it is easy to get angry at the system. To think that you're "too smart" or "life is too short" to be spent working. I believe that the recession exacerbated this natural occurrence as more people found themselves in jobs which were dis-satisfactory or not what they were hoping for. So here we find ourselves with a plethora of bankers packing up their cubicles and leaving for greener pastures. Not too surprising.
Great more spots for me.
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