Is Finance Really this Lonely?

You don't really need friends. Just go on tinder/bumble.

I would say that a big chunk of happiness in a man's life comes from interacting with girls. Both in sexual and non-sexual ways. Men get their intemate relationships primarily from the opposite sex, as opposed to women who also bond emotionally with their female friends. And in the hierarchy of Maslov friendship and intemate relationships are more important than prestige.

1) Congrats on breaking in - that is a good story 2) Be proud of your accomplishments 3) Just because you have the offer doesn't mean that energy / drive you had to break in goes away, you need to channel it to something else (being the best ranked analyst / PE /HF / VC if that is the path you think you want to go 4) Gym as someone mentioned (I enjoy running and cycling outside and do it for fun as that is the only time I can be truly disconnected from everything and just alone with my thoughts) 5) Consider therapy / meditation / Yoga (I've done all three and the latter two I do regularly) 6) Play an instrument, learn a new skill, keep moving forward 7) If work is making you that unhappy already as a summer analyst, consider doing something more fulfilling to you. No one else actually cares what you do day to day, titles and companies should not be your end goal. Your happiness should be your priority, because not many people outside of close friends and family care about your happiness, only theirs

You've had one internship (and haven't started the BB one?) and you're freaking out about finding meaning? You're like 20 years old so calm down, realize that you have no clue what "banking work" is like and be grateful you've gotten some great opportunities (clearly through hardwork).

lol someone is getting way ahead of themselves. I suggest improving your relationship building, through making friends outside of work and connecting with your colleagues and bosses. The shitty repetitive tasks you do as an intern or first several years of IB won't get you very far even if you excel at it. I can pull a random student from engineering department from a college and they will be able to do modeling. You haven't even earned the right to feel empty. Most kids in IB don't end up getting promoted all the way. Also, work is just work at the end of the day.

Start here - watch the below video and reflect. You have to retrain your subconscious. Each morning wake up, stretch, and take inventory of what you have in your life. Are you healthy? Employed? Friends and family? Food in your pantry? Safe and secure with shelter? Express your thankfulness to the higher power for these blessings - it does not matter which (if any) religious tradition you practice but the act of expressing thankfulness is critical.

A terrible issue in America is the constant comparison culture due to social media which creates unhealthy focus on materialism and vanity. You must ignore the sickness of the modern world and create your own inner strength/foundation based off of the age old religious principles our disgusting popular culture has shunned. Try tastefully complementing a friend, say thank you and smile after someone serves you, if the weather is nice and the sun is out go on a long walk in nature.

I had to delete all social media, cut out many friendships that were centered around alcohol, and attend multiple talk therapy sessions to get to the point where I was no longer depressed. This resulted in a dramatically changed mindset about what is important in life, most notably real human experience and real human connection. Go on a mission trip to a 3rd world Latin America country and see how much happier the people are with nothing compared to Americans living in complete overabundance.

The truth is understanding why a billionaire can be miserable with a broken family and kids that hate him while a night janitor can be blissfully happy because he is blessed with a happy family and many strong relationships creating a reciprocal support network.

Finance is a path to achieve financial freedom which is immensely helpful to developing the life you want. However, achievement in finance is not a substitute for life achievement - too many men particularly throw themselves completely into work because it is much easier than striving for a balanced existence that demands a multitude of disciplines and competencies.

Hi Everyone ~ it's been awhile since I've been on here. I've only told one person from WSO about this but many months ago, there was post that I've posted under an unknown user and in the post, I was contemplating of committing suicide. Patrick Curtis was the first to respond to my post and made a comment that he was here for me and even provided me his number via private chat. I thanked him...

I lost my job as a trader at a hedge fund, mainly trading natural gas. Prior to that, I was working in front, middle and back in NYC. I've worked my way up... came from nothing. Hell, I didn't even graduate college. I did horrible in high school, coming from an abusive father, where all he did was drink and beat me everyday. My dream growing up was to become a Navy SEAL... I have a buddy of mine, who wanted to become a Marine but I told him back in high school to become a SEAL and he did. I recently found him on Linkedin and just seeing his picture, as a SEAL made me so envious.

I asked myself, do I really see myself working in finance? I've worked at Barclays on their equities floor in front office in NYC. Coming in every morning at 7am, hearing the sales people talk about their research on the loud speaker, seeing the sales trader on the phone, though traders hasn't come in yet... it was fast pace and dynamic... I loved it but after being there for 5 months, I asked myself... What is so fucking great about this? I'm constantly on the phone, talking trades, staring at 3 monitors and my eyes are starting to bleed (Not Literally).

So after all these years and watching my friend fulfill my dream, I've made a conscious decision to leave finance (for now). I'm getting shipped out to the Army for Special Forces. I've been in the Navy for 8 years now to become a SEAL and the current rate is overmanned for my year group, hence why I'm transitioning to the Army. I'll be leaving soon and I wanted to thank everyone for helping me over the years to get where I want to be in finance. I may not be a hot shot trader pulling in millions but someone like me, who came from nothing was given the opportunity to work in front office and actually trade for a hedge fund and all of the learning that I've gathered over the years was from WSO.... From you guys.

Take care everyone and follow your dreams. The worst thing a man can do in life is to regret. No body wants to be 70 years old and ask what if... hence why I'm making this decision to go into the military to serve with high flying guys.

For those who are lonely and don't have a clear path in finance. DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. Don't sit around and feeling sorry for yourself. I've spent years alone without family and friends because all I ever wanted to do was "make it". I took on python classes, read countless trading books on derivatives. it was literally non-stop. No one owes you anything in life. You control your own destiny. So make a move. I don't the know what that move is but do something. For me, I've realized I will regret not being in special operations when I get older hence why I'm making this move. Hell, it may not be finance but I can always go back to it afterwards or who knows? Maybe go into the agencies or go to medical school after being trained as a SF combat medic. Decide your own path. Don't think money is everything because it was for me, initially. Hence why I wanted to be a trader so bad. But as I got older, I've realized money isn't everything. Family and friends will get older and some day, they won't be around anymore. Make yourself happy and don't take time for granted.

become a writer, that was very well written. i wish i could write that well

Jesus this hits me hard. I'm not in banking yet, but at an M&A advisory and I've been feeling exactly all that you wrote for the past four weeks. I don't have words of wisdom or support, but I hope we both can get through this bro.

So I dont want to hijack this thread but would you say its better to hate your job, and be somewhere you have family and support or to do a job you enjoy, and real build a life of friendships etc.

You're not alone. Any significant pursuit can be extremely lonely. It can be an emotional roller coaster.

It's cliche as fuck, but I found that trying to enjoy the journey is important to maintaining sanity. Enjoy the late nights, the quiet, the challenge, the failures etc. Try new things, travel - this will reinvigorate your creativity and sense of purpose. Don't forget to take time for yourself. Even if it's just a couple hours/week. Learn to be your own best friend and people will start gravitating towards you.

Want a real challenge? Start your own business. Honestly, society doesn't really celebrate enterpreneurs enough. They take most of the risk, most actually fail, yet provide jobs, your own salary, your perks and the rest.

Or you can go with what Synergy said, that's a really good advice.

Everyone here has really good stuff, so I'd like to contribute an idea that might align with your seemingly (at least from what I can tell of your background and post) highly structured mindset: schedule "relationship time".

Have a set block of time during the week/a few times a week where you dedicate yourself to people related tasks like calling a friend, going to organize emails in a coffee shop, reading in a book store, walking around a busy city.

You **need **this. At the end of the day, we are all still human, and we need to have interactions with other humans, however cursory. Sometimes we forget that because it's hard to create a proper utility analysis on the value of feelings. But its still important, even if we can't put metrics on it

Dude what? you're an intern, naturally you will be put on the most menial work before you have the chance to prove yourself.

I know exactly how you feel. That's how I felt when I received my offer too, after many years of slugging to get where I wanted. Congrats, you're in the top 1% and you deserve it.

What you need to figure out is what you are truly "missing". Reflect deeply on what your hole is try to find ways to find it. Believe me. Once you know what you want, then you will know where the uneasiness feeling is.

For me, it's a social issue. Try to put yourself out there and meet interesting people outside of finance/work.

Seek out help from a mental health professional. Seriously.

Every single longitudinal study of happiness has come to the same conclusion: beyond a certain baseline of monetary stability ($70-$90k/yr in today's dollars, depending on the study) the ONLY thing that makes people truly happy is connection/love. Be close with your family and try to nurture a few true, close friendships.

That's the key bud...

This is Water

David Foster Wallace (full text below, video excerpt) http://www.metastatic.org/text/This%20is%20Water.pdf

Wait, as of June 26, you already have a 2020 FT offer?

More interested about that part of the story - was under the assumption that lateral FT offers come after after internal return offers.

I made a post like this months ago and was called a fag for being sad. I deleted the post because of the comments. Reading your post, it is what I feel also. I have found that adding more projects, tasks, and things to do has helped me a lot. It has given me more meaning.

TL;DR: find a good therapist and call some of those old friends, stat;

call a crisis hotline if things get super bad (not in the Michael Cera sense): 1-800-273-8255

OP,

I also came from a "that's never going to happen" background, and I've been through more than one period in my life that reads like what you've described. The fact of the matter is that radically changing class positions is an extremely isolating experience, no matter where you are on the planet. That can be compounded even further if, in addition to that, you are considered to be any other sort of "minority" where you are. As if grind fatigue wasn't enough. Jay-Z put out a least 2 albums on the subject, and it's one of the reasons Kanye became a space cadet. In any case, what you are doing is not an easy thing by any measure. It's something few empathize with, but trust that you can do better than survive it. I made it through wilderness periods having to do with these conditions. I know you can too.

My #1 recommendation: find.your.people.immediately. I mean people you care about and who genuinely care about you. They're out there. Get back in touch with the old ones, and when you're in a place to do it, work on finding new ones too (don’t deprive yourself of the opportunity to make genuine connections with classmates, those can prove to be strong bonds over time). You may find there's a chasm of difference between yourself and those you've "left behind," and it's tricky to navigate that. But if there were true friends among them, then for your sake, be willing to be uncomfortable for a bit and do not throw those old friends away. Find a way to reconcile being from where you're from with being where you are now. Other people have done it--keep your eyes out for those people and study them.

In the immediate, use your discernment to pick people you absolutely trust (and in case it's not obvious: leave out coworkers, potential partners/future romantic interests, and anyone you've known for less than a year). Think of a few people from among your old friends or among your family who are/were 1) genuinely invested in you doing well and 2) have some respectable amount of emotional intelligence. Reach out, let them know you're going through a rough patch and could use someone to talk to, and set aside a time and some private space to get on the phone (or meet up in person, if they're near enough). Tell them how you are feeling. And definitely apologize for checking out (and don't do that shit again).

If you find yourself in the kind of jam that I was in 15 years ago i.e., I had a very short list of people, all of whom were in tough binds themselves and didn't have the bandwidth to listen to my shit, then that somebody should be a therapist. Even if you find you have a list of 50 friends to call, a therapist is still a good idea. Use a search engine to find some LICSWs nearby. Call a few up to see if it's a good interaction. Again, use your discernment as your guide on who to ultimately see.

If you are able to do the self-care things other posters have described, also put those in motion ASAP. Still tend to building your safety net of relationships. This is extremely important, because sometimes you'll push the weight, and eat the green things, and go on the epic dates, and can still feel as bad or worse than you started. Chronic isolation (I'm talking the emotional kind) can do this. One of the most difficult things I experienced in the tortured 20s was being left with an overwhelming feeling of, "what's left to do"? What's left to do is breathe, remember you are a human being with a heart, and take action to feed that heart with the fellowship it needs. Life is not all about bootstraps and what the power of your will can accomplish. Sometimes you have to direct your will to ask for help, and that's perfectly OK. As social creatures, it's actually what we're built to do. No monkey is an island.

Last thing, if you ever find yourself in a place where you are completely overwhelmed, feel there is nothing to do/nowhere to go/nobody to call, and thinking maybe you are willing to do anything to make it all stop, hit pause and phone a crisis hotline. The national Lifeline is free and anonymous: 1-800-273-8255

Hey thank you so much for sharing. I'm in a similar situation - therefore understand your current isolation deeply. I understand that isolation is indeed necessary during the recruiting process since you need solid focus on the working aspect. However, as going along the way, I found out that I cannot go far if I remain "dry" on my emotional side. I once found everything meaningless and numbness was not a surprise for me. What I did, on a very micro level, was trying my best to keep my best friends with me, especially those childhood or colleges. I know they don't understand what we have been through in Finance but for sure they understand us as a person - who we deeply are and what makes us purely happy. Honestly - I think many of us experience this thought, so reaching out to those would help too. Hope this makes you feel better.

I think a lot of the advice here is great, but completely way off mark....

PLEASE read this:

https://waitbutwhy.com/2013/09/why-generation-y-yuppies-are-unhappy.html

Every job becomes tiring if you are doing the same thing for 10-20 years.

Its okay dude - I was in the same boat as you. I sacrificed everything I had to be where I am today - friends, family, health - everything. People around me were so proud of me but I was legit so lonely inside - its crazy. Its like my life is filled but I was so empty inside. I started having mental health issues - couldn't sleep for days, or would sleep for the whole weekend, mood swings, urge to drink and smoke.

Then I started talking to this older woman ( just to have someone who didnt know me and wont judge me) - to vent mostly. Really got active in the gym (started out just to be able to feel something), read random teenage fiction for a whole month for some reason, ate healthy (like, kale salad healthy). I reconnected with college friends and "tried" to talk to my family. Basically for four months I did everything I could just to feel something - happy, tired, sad - anything.

And then things gradually started getting better - for the first time in six years I am actually dating a guy. I am usually late to every single date and I fall asleep on him all the time but - hey its something.

Work on yourself - take your time. I took whole four months. Figure it out because no one will understand what you are going through. Also - believe in yourself. Just remember how you used to be and that if you had it once you can have it again. It will give you hope.

And if all goes to shit - text me.

I agree with a lot of the great advice that has been posted already by many folks. Great recommendations.

The only thing I will add is that it is natural to have some of the feelings that you are having. The phenomenon is called the hedonic treadmill (or hedonic adaptation) in the literature: the observed tendency of humans to quickly return to a relatively stable level of happiness despite major positive or negative events or life changes (pulled that from wikipedia).

All of us think to ourselves at some point, "If I just get promoted, then I will be happy" or "If I just get that job offer, then I will be happy." Once it happens, you get "reset". You need to identify another goal, or more importantly a higher purpose, in order to keep yourself engaged.

Keep your head up, go for a walk to get some vitamin D, call your Grandma just to say hi, get a coffee with an old friend, read a book of poetry, etc.

Find yourself a quality hobby that you enjoy. One thing I noticed among people my age (early 30's) is that they start pouring lots of money and energy into self-discovery, -actualization and -realization. People kinda wake up, realizing that their lives are drifting by, and that their career is not everything.

The earlier you do this, the better. Even if the job is not all what it's cracked up to be, you can enjoy life outside.

(Better yet, find a job you also enjoy)

The old saying goes far in today's society.

"Work to live, not live to work."

Often times when I was younger bouncing around different companies and such, people simply lived to work (paycheck to paycheck).

I would find a job that have good stability in terms of work/life balance you are wanting to accomplish. Use that and the free time after to pursue whatever goals you want to.

Join a club, gym, etc., hangout for game night or some sorts. Friends locally would host game night - fun, interactive, and great venue to meet new incredible people you would never think that would appear in your life.

If you want to start small, go to a local park or area where you see it is crowded, and walk and/or start jogging. At the end of it, you will feel relieved.

Lastly, look for a good therapist if you there things going on within your life that you feel should be a discussion with a professional.

You got this!

Isn't this just a case of someone who's been surrounded by people who can't relate to him? How many classmates at his community college for example, can begin to relate to his quest to land a top BB internship?

He's not living in an environment that's the right fit for him, and thankfully he's moving toward more of an environment that will fit him well (for example, the internship next year).

Relax OP. It gets better, not worse. People need to live in surroundings where others make sense to them and they make sense to others.

I just attended my 10 yr MBA. I’d bet good money that my section is among the top performing ever. In any case, for all the success in the room, a reoccurring theme was a sense of loneliness, and lack of real friends. If your entire focus is your career and family, which is quite honorable, it leaves very little time for anything else. Its made worse if your work has little meaning, and even moreso if your family life is challenging. I’d echo the above. Make sure you maintain some sort of meaning in your life. It could be your career, or could be something else. Your family can be a part of it, but it shouldn’t be everything. Btw, most of us haven’t cracked it yet. I can count on one hand how many people fully allow themselves to be happy.

D

annoyingly I posted big reply and it timed out or some shit. basically it boiled down to take a look at the people you aspire to be and understand a lot of sacrifice is needed. the hours dont get better (contrary to what people say here) I work in a buyside shop and essentially everyone from analyst to MD works at least 80 hrs a week (analysts 90-100 and MD 80 hrs not taking travelling to meet investors into consideration) and secondly an anecdote about these bluepill mid market PE guys that sit on my floor with no social life and cringely chase girls in the building around that show them any friendly attention.. the negatives you dont hear about on wso basically.

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interesting