non-target
I see a lot of non-targets keep complaining about lack of opportunity and how privileged those who went to target/semi target schools.
Big firms prefer to recruit or do events at highly selective educational institutions because those universities already filter out a lot of students during the admission process. As a result, they get access to a talented student with high growth potential. Which makes sense for the firm. It's not economical or promising to do recruitment directly from a not highly selective school with a mid reputation. But it doesn't close the door for that student because those top calibre students from non-target will be the ones reaching out to firms, instead of firms attracting them to campus. So at the end of the day, it's a numbers game for both sides but the odds are in favour of target kids because they are given opportunities whether non-target have to create their own.
Does it make sense?
uhhh seems pretty obvious bro
Pretty sure everyone at non-targets understand it from a logical perspective. No need for your pretentious explanation
You see, statistically you are more likely to mug me! Im not racist for crossing the street because of your skin color, it's a numbers game!
Unpopular opinion: Average target candidate is way stronger technically than the average non-target
How is this an unpopular opinion?
Average, yes. But when it comes to top students at non-targets, I’ve noticed they often perform better on the job compared to the bunch of target school kids there. It simply takes insane effort to break in from non-targets, so those who make it in despite the hurdles are often the top performers on the job.
A kid from a target could fall backwards into banking because 'that's what gets money bro I want to do models and bottles on wallstreet' and then realize 3 months in they arent cut for it.
You have to have sharp elbows to make it as a non
You should change your name to cup_of_obvious
you like it now?
Nice bukkake move
So what you're saying is it's perfectly possible to land a top fo job even if you're from a nontarget, you just have to go out and find job openings instead of having them come to you through on-campus recruiting?
Theoretically, yes. I don't think any firm will turn down someone from non-target if they have a strong profile. Furthermore, I think as a non-target you have a better chance reaching out to people in industry who were also non-targets. They are more likely to help you out because they been in your shoes and know the struggle of being in non-targets where you are less likely to have access to relevant infromation and career advice.
Being mean to non-targets is the last form '-ism' that hasn't been effectively outlawed in this country so I'm going to milk it for as long as that's the case
Even short kings are now 'in' these days
Long read ahead:
As a non-target I agree, however the work ethic is unmatched and I don’t think non-target kids should be counted out just because they don’t have a recognizable school on their resume. Most non-targets did not have the resources to attend top targets for multiple reasons (worked during high school to save up for college, didn't have multiple test prep guides, couldn't afford out of state tuition etc.). So there are tons of students at non-targets with a chip on their shoulder who are eager to work hard and prove themselves. I think playing sports all my life and being super competitive adds to that also.
I'm in an organization at my non-target which has about 20-25 active members. Our placement rate the last two recruitment cycles have been 75% and 80%. Why? We do workshops every week, speaker series with industry professors every week and when we try to make contacts at the banks we don't do it to just land an internship we do it to try and build a relationship. Most people when networking I feel like think as long as they talk to x amount of bankers at a certain bank they're fine, however imo bankers see through the bs and know you are just on the phone to use their name to get pushed through (especially if you didn't do your research and sound stupid).
Additionally, I feel like the passion for banking a lot of non-target kids have is generally better than targets. I'm not generalizing here but I do feel like from reading some of these forums that a lot of target kids come from well off families and rush into banking just to fit in , in terms of money and salary. Which I think could potentially correlate to the turnover (especially if you don't need the money).Personally I tried recruitment freshman summer and was so lost. I spent almost an entire year studying, learning about the industry, deciding what I actually want to do (this is a big step), recruited for sophomore summer (2022) failed again, learned from it, landed a financial analyst internship in hopes of gaining tangible skills to help me get more interviews, tightened up my skills, gained more industry knowledge and then I got blessed. This recruiting cycle (2023) I got 5 superdays at BB/MM banks (GS,JPM,BoA,Baird,WF). Went in confident because I had been preparing for the entire year and it was my dream, showed my passion and interest as well as my personality and received 3 offers.
I don't think being a non-target puts me at a disadvantage because I believe if you want it badly enough you truly will make it happen (It is just nerve racking when you are going against people from top Ivy League’s, causing you to second guess yourself a lot). So sorry for the lengthy read but hope everyone else has good luck during their journey.
Also I don't think there should be a Target vs Non-target fight, I don't envy target people I just wasn't as fortunate. I think if you are truly passionate and a genuine person, you deserve to have the opportunity to prove yourself to whichever industry/bank/job you pursue (even if you get a useless technical question wrong).
Cheers
well said
Same to you sir, good post
What online resources would you suggest for a non-target student that would allow them to be competitive against those from target school (i.e WSP, CSC, etc.).
There's a few content creators that focus on recruiting for IB, consulting, and buy-side, and they're doing a great job broadening access to information when it comes to recruiting for these fields. A few good ones that I've come across are Peak Frameworks, Rareliquid, and Rocketblocks.
super well said coming from another non-target and congrats on the offers dude
" "Never tell me the odds"
-Han Solo"
-Army Monkey - non-target guy
I think every non-target goes through a crisis at the end of their degree because they realize just how bleak their job prospects are. A lot of these schools do a real shit job of placing kids in jobs, not just IB. If you’re not resilient/disciplined enough to work at the job hunt and acquiring skills, you can easily end up working retail or doing a shit tier masters program to buy time for a degree that may or may not help your chances at a decent job. The only good thing I can say about non-targets is that they’re often cheap, and there is value to graduating debt free. But if you’re thinking about paying $50k+ for one, just go blue collar or do a coding bootcamp
Same shit here in the UK. My uni is completely off the radar for IB (only like 200 alumni in high finance). It has a good reputation and teaching staff for development and Econ but apart from that, I don't think people who are willingly come here think about careers before they go to university.
They have the most useless career development office. They do such a poor job marketing and helping students that it's almost a joke. There are literally like 5-10 people on payroll marketing some entry position roles at companies that offer like £20k annually or roles that you could get without a degree. As a result, you might have 5 students max within the economics cohort who did spring week out of like 200.
I generally agree. Having participated in recruiting students in the past, I'd like to share some additional observations:
* most students at most schools are of no interest to the financial industry and have no interest in the industry either. Thinking about "average students" is not useful. A numbers game means that larger quasi-open-admissions state school may have more students that we do want to talk to than a smaller "highly selective" school.
* Shockingly few schools have a competent career office (or something similar-sounding) that sets up in some kind of fairs, where students walk around tables and just talk to people; some organize parties (no alcohol:) where students socialize with potential employers; allow senior people to talk to a student audience about careers in their firms, send out curated resume books to potential employers; etc. If a school's career office does these things, then (some) employers come. If your school doesn't have these things, it may well be not because potential employers don't think highly of its students, bur rather because your school's career office doesn't do these things. In my own experience, calling up a random school and asking if they could put up a leaflet telling undergraduate math majors about a summer internship usually elicited a response along the lines of "We don't want our students to even think about working for evil capitalist swine like you!" and/or "You'd need to pay us lots of money to do that!". Students at a school without a competent career office need to work harder to get their resume in front of a potential employer.
* Much of undergraduate coursework at all schools is rubbish. The curriculum is out of date or makes no sense. You hire talented young people and expect to train them a lot.
What GPA would you recommend for non-targets gunning for EB recruiting?
3.9+
Well shit I'm Finance and Accounting double major and 3.8. Would an LMM PE internship or networking change minds?
It's easier to go a target where they inflate your gpa and be a liberal arts major....
Wow thank you for explaining why a company would choose to recruit at Harvard instead of Alabama. Truly an enlightening post. None of us were aware of the difference in caliber of student body until you so thoroughly laid it out for us. Post of the year.
If I were an EB hiring manager, I wouldn't touch nontarget schools with a 10 foot pole. I'll say it again: the worst student at Harvard is better than any nontarget student. Why recruit for a client-facing role from the gutters when there are hordes of qualified, polished, and pedigreed students at Harvard? If you didn't try in the first 18 years of your life and ended up at a nontarget, tough shit.
Often times it's not the 18 year olds fault for "not trying." It's really up to the parents of those children to guide them to that level. The average folk could be great loving parents but not understand or know what qualifies a person to get accepted to schools like Harvard. It starts when the child is young, very young. The earlier a child "learns how to learn" and is then guided and supported to one day achieve that level, can he only possibly achieve that. It's easier to break into Harvard having parents that went to Harvard than it is if they did not . . . for a multitude of reasons (financial resources for schooling prior to, knowledge about Harvard and the alike to begin with, parents with an understanding of the competition and how to push their kids to that level, etc.)
I'll give you a chance to reply back and amend your original statement being that your username suggests you did attend Harvard and HBS. Come on . . .
Your comment portrays academic success as some esoteric, elitist pursuit only for the privileged. In fact, academic success and the pursuit of the knowledge are probably the most accessible avenues to economic mobility in this day and age. Your comment also robs teenagers of any individual agency, as if their future potential is limited by their parents. The reality is: we're exposed from a very young age to school--to the world of knowledge, grades, report cards, exams, projects, and a world separate from our parents. If one is interested in being successful, and yet--even by high school--can't come to their senses and take some responsibility and realize the importance of succeeding in their studies and seizing every opportunity at hand, then let's just say that any amount of pressure from their parents wouldn't have helped. So unless the 18 year old chose the nontarget for financial reasons (which in this day and age is basically a moot point given the amount of financial aid schools offer), yes: it is their fault. This is not even mentioning how Harvard and other top schools review applications holistically: if you're a first-gen or rural student, obviously you don't have to be an USAMO qualifier to get accepted.
Also, I didn't attend HBS (yet)--and I'm not even from a well-off family, by any objective measure. But keep coping.
You are a fucking retard
Eius commodi autem dolor sapiente. Architecto occaecati veniam ex facilis eos velit. Dolorem dolore ex explicabo sit aut consequuntur. Rerum animi inventore rerum eos minus praesentium quis officiis. Eos magni voluptas autem et rerum. Sequi eaque et harum quisquam magni omnis rerum.
Porro accusamus velit rem eos. Voluptatem libero ea architecto laudantium optio. Et qui rerum nam consectetur. Aperiam corrupti dicta accusantium dolores modi.
Omnis non unde possimus ullam nemo cumque. Sunt deserunt inventore exercitationem hic eligendi quo sapiente veniam. Magnam ea quisquam dignissimos ut nihil repudiandae praesentium vitae.
Nihil doloribus fuga ut dolores quo. Nihil facere laboriosam vero ducimus beatae totam. Et nihil corrupti tenetur dolores nam. Est id aut veritatis omnis tempore perspiciatis eligendi. Non et quis quia repudiandae.
See All Comments - 100% Free
WSO depends on everyone being able to pitch in when they know something. Unlock with your email and get bonus: 6 financial modeling lessons free ($199 value)
or Unlock with your social account...
Rerum ad odit vel voluptas et expedita explicabo. Optio perspiciatis corrupti molestiae. Commodi necessitatibus ut aut aut quidem nemo accusamus. Dolor sit itaque possimus eligendi. Quis in non unde omnis voluptas dolor est voluptatem. Id officia quia fugit aut iure. Ullam corrupti tenetur quasi minima.
Possimus dolor quia est aperiam eveniet aut voluptatem. Ea similique voluptates vero ut ratione ut nemo. Sed quia consectetur dicta deserunt. Sunt nihil sed dolore et et molestiae consequatur.
Optio rem aut saepe similique voluptatem consequatur repudiandae ullam. Ut a mollitia quae eligendi et. Qui consequuntur porro voluptatem dolor. Odio eius quis eos deleniti nulla dignissimos. Laborum veritatis odit perspiciatis.
Nulla sed voluptatum dignissimos eaque amet maxime. Repellendus neque itaque magnam recusandae ipsum iusto. Atque autem labore suscipit eum.