SBF vs Elizabeth Holmes
Which one is worse? Which one is the bigger scam, bigger crime? Which one fucked more people?
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SBF definitely fucked a lot more people literally - but I shudder at the thought of what kind of people...
lol idk man - lizzy could've been a whore
If you're implying criminals, I'm sure that's true, but there are plenty of unsophisticated retail people swept up in this mess.
Look at the Celsius or Voyager dockets for example: you will see a ton of filings from random people with their stories. There was one of a woman from Australia in the Celsius case who included an ultrasound of her unborn baby to show why she needed her 10 grand in life savings back.
I was talking about the SBF polycule and their butt-ugly faces bro...
Holmes definitely given her fraud was in healthcare and potentially could’ve lead to misdiagnosis for her patients. SBF is also a piece of shit and will get arrested but is currently running his stupid press shows by 1) playing the poor operator card and saying he didn’t know that client funds were being misappropriated and 2) having created a casket of political wealth through donations and significant partnerships in the everyday community.
Everyone asks why is SBF not in jail or arrested and I stand by my answer - he will be. The SEC and DOJ are building a case against him and will arrest him on the largest number of charges they can rather than charging him with a few counts of wire fraud off the bat. He has nowhere to go. The Bahamas fucking hate him now (excluding the fact that the US has extradition there) and since he publicly hired counsel yesterday, it’s pretty apparent an arrest is imminent but it’s a matter of when and where. I’d be surprised if they didn’t perp walk him from a specified location given how widespread FTXs collapse was on the average American who had money invested via their exchange. The people will look for a throat and SBF is perfect to give our government a show to their constituents that they take even the most nascent methods of investing such as cryptocurrency, very seriously.
End of day, I don’t attribute any of FTXs faults to crypto, I attribute it to piss poor corporate controls and not holding what is basically a custodian and intermediary for an asset class to the same standard we do for equities and credit. SBF was just the excited figurehead who allowed all of it to continue in the same way Holmes did, by believing that he was doing something right because every blue chip fund was throwing him money left and right and validating his mental truth. I genuinely believe that if he was an outsider who wasn’t investing or wasn’t involved in FTX, he would’ve seen how ridiculous it was that his company was being propped up by countless funds and would’ve at least questioned why, and felt uneasy as to why so many dollars were being thrown at the company and on what basis.
I had a secondary connection who worked(s) at coatue who invested a shit ton of money in ftx and i distinctly remember asking him what was the basis. And he simply said it was momentum driven. Tiger did it and sequoia did so he didn’t want to lose out on the round as it’d make coatue look bad. Just poor poor investing all around.
Pretty sure Theranos's misapplication of their tech actually did cause misdiagnoses that lead to deaths? I know with corporate law Holmes could skate on that as much as 95% of us flat out want strong justice from ethics and morals (which she certainly didn't ever seem to have during that trial).
But yes, SBF is also a piece of shit. Idiot savant would be too complimentary. As for the SEC and DOJ actually doing anything? I'm sure it's pretty well known what I think of the SEC at this point, and without getting political I have my qualms about the DoJ over the last two decades too. That in mind, even with the Bahamian gov't sentiment and extradition on the table I wouldn't be shocked if they just kicked him out to be rid of him but the DoJ winds up shrugging shoulders and does nothing.
Also agree that the faults aren't due to crypto itself, but SBF and that thing called his girlfriend. Then what they were doing with the DNC and all that goes on there (Disclaimer: I did not commit suicide btw). Crypto is supposed to make all transactions transparent, but yet here we are...Again. I'll be quiet but..sigh...fucking SEC (not) at it again. I mean if not the SEC, where the fuck has the CFTC been on this?! I will stop there because then it becomes political, and theorizing about any of that is not how to play to win per WOPR's wisdom. Still a lot questions that easily outnumber answers right now.
Holmes has been to trial already, but SBF is just beginning. So I can't say who's worse just yet.
Edit: Well now I apparently can say who's worse since Maxine Waters, head of the financial services committee told Gensler at the SEC to NOT subpoena SBF, but let him testify if he so chose (Even though apparenty two sources have said he would still do it. I'd take odds on if he really will, but I don't want to feel like then I'd be the one stealing money). I've made my decision, SBF is worse. Holmes was bad enough for trying to cover up mistakes so no one knew how badly she screwed up. But SBF is being actively protected now from top down? Just makes me feel like this will keep running deeper than we ever first thought or may ever know about.
WTF 23andMe wasnt Holmes... it was Theranos. Or did I read your comment wrong? She was actively diagnosing people with bad tech (read misdiagnosing people). It wasnt some "23andme" type test.
Great comment.
You may enjoy the book Take on the Street by former SEC Chairman Arthur Levitt. He was at the helm when Enron went down and went as far as to include all the power letters he got from big shots, special interest groups, or muppets on capital hill demanding that he back off his investigation into Enron. Warren Buffett is a friend of his and he often sought insight into “Why would a company do this?” from him.
I may just read it again as time allows around the Holidays.
Holmes is a much bigger criminal and her crime was way worse, given that it could have/did lead to death or serious illness.
Also, crypto in general is an obvious scam and always has been. Anyone losing their money in anything cryptocurrency related deserves it and has no cause for complaint, any more so than someone who lost money in a casino, or whose dick pump they ordered online didn't have the promised effects.
Holmes. I can believe SBF didn't know what he was doing here or there. Holmes knew the whole time and intentionally concealed and perpetuated it. She is a proper sociopath.
SBF is just a poseur geek trying to make a buck .
Nah. He's just like her. That's clear every time I look into the details. I'm too tired and lazy to lay them out but don't worry, they'll become more ubiquitous once people summarize them a bit more. SBF was all over everything that was going on.
What I see for both these two is that they probably both went into these businesses aiming to do the right thing and change the world for the better. But once things didn't go as planned they both gave zero fucks about taking risks with other people's money and/or health. I don't think its a coincidence they both have pre-founder connections to the Valley where you are celebrated for pursuing a grandiose vision and basically considered a p*ssy if you let mundane concerns (like integrity) slow you down.
They're probably gonna share a prison cell and have geek sociopath babies.
Holmes.
Crypto is one gigantic scam so if SBF managed to discourage further crypto "investment", as far as I'm concerned he's a goddamned gift to humanity
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