What brings you joy?

We all know the reason we chose finance was the pursuit of cold hard cash, but to what end? 

What specifically motivates you to work so hard? Is there an end goal? Are there specific items, achievements, or experiences obtained from your newfound wealth/prestige that make even 100hr hell weeks feel "worth it"? 

I've recently seen great discussions here ranging from work-life balance, to "what's your number to retire?", and my favorite thread about the guy who inherited $5m and asked "what next?". Beyond the obligatory answers of "coke and hookers", "buying a house" and "retire", the new question becomes "what do you do after retiring"? https://www.economist.com/business/2024/01/25/why…

In short, in your opinion, "what brings joy and makes life worth living"? 

 
Most Helpful

To kick start the discussion, I suppose I'll start with some observations of my time working in a BB M&A group and the irony of choice paralysis in having "too much freedom". 

Personally, I grew up with very minimalist values and wasn't very impressed with most of the wealth signifiers in banking. Sure, I'll go invest in a designer suit since that's part of the job expense, but I never felt particularly "attached" to aspirational purchases of clothes, watches, sports cars, houses, etc. Even when visiting my MD's house or going to an exclusive rooftop bar with the big bosses who are bragging about their newfound membership in a high society club, everything felt rather hollow and boring, as if to say "you paid HOW many millions just for this?" I know real estate prices are insane anywhere near NYC, but it's rather sad to see a pretty normal/average suburban home that would probably cost <$500k where I'm from suddenly be priced at $5m+ in Greenwich.

At the very least, I feel that there's clearly a point of diminishing returns where prices rise 10x for something maybe only 5-10% better. At least in my case, I'm not motivated to try and spend a few more decades slaving away to buy essentially the same house just in a slightly better zip code. Perhaps this also stems from my pennypincher upbringing where money should first and foremost buy stability and freedom through passive income. While that's certainly the right way to go, it's not exactly very exciting to stare at a vanguard account slowly creep upwards (similar to how my senior MD mentor once described money as just "keeping score" in the game of life, where increments no longer have any tangible impact on your daily life). I'm sure plenty of fellow bankers might understand once you no longer bother checking when/if your paycheck clears, and when an extra 10k-20k doesn't really move the needle (at least in most years when 20k isn't half the entire associate bonus!)

I certainly understand just how privileged it is to be able to sleep in until noon, not have to work, and be able to travel anywhere/afford most things, the question then becomes "what actually is worthwhile"? Having met and befriended actual trust fund kids in college, I saw how many suffered from abject boredom that they constantly fought to drown out (hobbies, partying, substances, chasing prestige/status, etc). Perhaps the best parallel is similar to playing a video game like GTA with an infinite money hack enabled: while it's initially a nice power trip, suddenly the game has no more stakes, there's no point doing missions for money/experience, and the sandbox quickly becomes boring since there's no more motivating factor. In an ironic sense, we all hate to be enslaved by debt, yet even video games (from Animal Crossing to Pikmin) always start you off with tons of debt just so that you have motivation to go out into the world and play the game. While it's not ideal to have that weighing down on you, perhaps that is the kick in the pants we unfortunately need to stay motivated? 

Perhaps it all goes back to Succession's famous quote about the "poorest rich man in America". I'm starting understand those who talk about how even the finest meals eventually start to taste dull, favorite hobbies become boring, luxury first-class travel becomes a chore, and material possessions only become a burden. Thinking about "next steps" in a post-retirement life, I'm struggling to see the appeal of lazing around a luxury cruise or lounging around on a tropical beach somewhere with a cocktail in hand. While it can certainly be a momentary escape alongside some fancy purchases and world travel, I feel that it quickly becomes a similarly hedonistic path as "coke and hookers" where you have no choice but to continue "upping the dose/chasing that high due" amid rapidly increasing tolerance. When you have the freedom to do anything/go anywhere, sometimes it's hard to get the motivation to do anything at all (which is a surprisingly common trend, albeit among a very small sample size of those I know who have been retired-since-birth). 

I'm always thinking about things/experiences that innately bring joy just for existing (from nice tasting food, to the cuteness of a fluffy pet, nice stories/music that resonate with you, and perhaps any substances that fire off happy chemicals in the brain). Perhaps I have yet to truly find some form of deeper "passion" or "purpose", but it's certainly something I'm trying to understand (and why I hope to see others' thoughts on the matter). I'm not really a spiritual person, but I did take a Buddhism course which talked about "renouncing desires" as perhaps something similar to what I'm experiencing.

 

Definitely appreciate the sentiment and always eager to discuss ideas with everyone else on here! Haven't been back to NYC since moving out of IBD, and slowly trying to figure out things worth doing while traveling (beyond the usual itineraries of sightseeing/foodie-ing).

One of the few things I have identified as enjoyable is learning more about the perspectives/personal philosophies of purpose that everyone has (especially within the high-achieving finance sector). This goes doubly so for those who "achieved" the wealth/status they sought while entering the industry, and now face the question of "what next". Perhaps much of my disillusionment with the industry comes from seeing even senior MDs not necessarily be happy with their lives as they chase the next status symbol (bigger house in the Hamptons/Greenwich, creating a legacy by sending kids to prestigious private schools, membership to an exclusive high-society club etc). While I'm by no means rich enough to even discuss most of the truly "upscale" luxuries of first class-private jet, or megamansions/yachts, most of it feels like severely diminishing returns (or as my MD mentor once said, "beyond a point, money is only used to keep score akin to a video game"). I suppose the more relatable example I think about is how the only difference between a $3-5m house in the city center vs a $1m house in a nice/safe suburb an hour or two away is usually just the prestigious zip code itself (which only has value if you need the location for job/school district/networking etc).

 

Ah, the age-old question of what makes the grind worth it! Based on the most helpful WSO content, it seems that joy and a life worth living come from a variety of sources, not just the financial rewards of those brutal 100-hour weeks. Here's what the WSO community often highlights:

  1. Accomplishments: Achieving goals, like landing that coveted internship or nailing the grades, can bring a sense of pride and happiness. It's about setting your sights on a target and hitting the bullseye.

  2. Relationships: The deep connections with family, friends, and significant others are irreplaceable. Whether it's sharing laughs with your dad or feeling the love from a significant other, these bonds are the bedrock of contentment.

  3. Experiences Over Material Goods: Spending on experiences rather than accumulating stuff is a common theme. Whether it's traveling to new places or just enjoying a great meal, these moments create lasting memories.

  4. Acts of Kindness: Engaging in random acts of kindness or helping others can provide a profound sense of fulfillment. It's about being part of something bigger than yourself.

  5. Finding Your Passion: Discovering work that doesn't feel like work at all, something that ignites a fire in your heart, can be incredibly joyful. When your career aligns with your passions, every day can feel like play.

  6. Community Involvement: For some, being involved in a community, like a church or volunteer group, brings a sense of purpose and happiness through serving others.

  7. Avoiding Comparisons: Steering clear of envy and focusing on your own path can lead to a more contented life. As the saying goes, comparison is the thief of joy.

  8. Post-Retirement Activities: The discussion doesn't stop at retirement. It's about what you do with your time after that. Whether it's pursuing hobbies, continuing to learn, or giving back to the community, staying engaged is key.

So, while the pursuit of wealth in finance is a strong motivator, it's these elements—achievement, relationships, experiences, kindness, passion, community, and personal growth—that truly bring joy and make life worth living, even after the office lights dim.

Sources: https://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forum/investment-banking/are-you-happy-with-your-life?customgpt=1, Life after Investment Banking, Are you happy with your life?, What makes you happy outside of work? Have it all but stuck in a void., Life after Investment Banking

I'm an AI bot trained on the most helpful WSO content across 17+ years.
 

Joy is a strong word.  From a work perspective, I get joy out of helping people succeed in their goals, especially when the path was not easy for them.  On a personal note, and it might sound trivial, one thing that stands out to me was when my son passed his driving test after being unsuccessful 2 times. (This runs in the family and I was just as happy when I passed my test). 

 

This answer reminds me of the book "Ikigai" (https://www.amazon.com/Ikigai-Japanese-Secret-Long-Happy/dp/0143130722) which I was just reading through. It's certainly an ideal to "do what you love, and you'll never work another day in your life", although I sometimes wonder what in practice actually fills in that void (obviously a very personal answer for every individual).

We all have things we "enjoy" doing, but perhaps it's difficult to find something where you can truly go "all-in" on working on something that is genuinely enjoyable. Classic examples from the book include craftsmen/tradesmen who become masters in their craft and work until their dying day while endlessly honing their skills. In a sense, learning any skill (whether something practical, or even mastering a video game) takes significant effort and dedication to become "better". Some practical lesson (like learning your DCF models) might mostly be extrinsically motivated by job->money->status. I arguably find it more interesting to see those who hone practically "useless" talents (such as getting better at a video game/sport/art where you never intend to go pro) but find intrinsic joy/excitement from that self-improvement process, even if it doesn't make you a single cent or get any recognition for your efforts. 

I suppose my biggest struggle is the burnout of going through many of those hobbies that most might enjoy (varsity sports, concert music, semi-professional writing, traveling solely for work-adjacent trips, etc.) where most end up feeling more like "work" than something to enjoy, or perhaps being "too much effort to be worth doing". I've definitely found some value in "work" that feel more meaningful than banking (such as writing, teaching, and some counseling/mentorship for students), although even that ultimately comes down to becoming "work" at a certain point. Perhaps I just find it ironic that back when I had endless piles of work/study to do, I would scrounge up every minute to grind out hundreds/thousands of hours in video games/shows/movies. Now that I have entire months where every day counts as a weekend, I end up too lazy to even boot up anything I used to enjoy! Back to the drawing board to brainstorm ideas I suppose.

 

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