What do yall think about Elon Musk?
Am I the only one who thinks elon musk is up to no good? Media always painting him like a saint, and he himself goes on talks about how he’s trying to make the world a better place and stuff like that. Sure, he can say all that but how much does he really mean. Meanwhile, it seems to me he’s just constantly manipulating the market and trying to stir up trouble. I get the vibe that he’s just trying to grow his businesses and make some more money, which, I know, is no different from other entrepreneurs but he definitely doesn’t deserve his saintly image while these other business owners are evil capitalists. Sure, I understand that what he has accomplished in creating both tesla and spacex is an extremely remarkable feat but that doesn’t point towards how he’d be trying to do good. This is not even mentioning his personal affairs yet. If the public has this much information on what harm he’s done, I can’t imagine what goes on behind our backs. Extremely curious what rest of y’all think about him. Feel free to disagree as well!
I don't get it man, I just don't. He could've kept his big mouth shut, continued to build Tesla/SpaceX and whatever else and have his cult following and celebrity status. Now he just seems like a fading celebrity trying to stay relevant.
Hardly fading it's not like he's lost his wealth, he's about to buy Twitter... He has just started to get more political and talk a bit more openly instead of indulge his nerdy characteristics talking about 420 and shit.
He's rich sure, but his celebrity status is fading. Every idiotic tweet takes a bit of the shine off and there have been many. He's let the world know what he really is, another petulant narcissist. He can be that and a really good entrepreneur at the same time.
I have followed Musk for nearly a decade at this point, and he went from noble creator to evil super genius over that same time period.
Initially, Musk had always claimed that he had one goal, to increase the longevity of the human race. Seems pretty noble, no? He did through by generating new tech applications which were initially pretty "basic". Dont get me wrong, they were innovative as hell, and added real value for the majority of people, at least for anyone living in the first world. Zip2 and Paypal were game changers, but they were basic in the sense that they didn't adhere to his mantra, which was afterall, meaningful innovation focused on increasing the duration of the human race.
Musk then started to move in a different direction, splitting his time and energy across several far more mantra-oriented projects. SpaceX, Tesla, Neural Link, NOW were talking. This was when I really started to pay attention to Musk. From what I understand, Musk really split his time in the following manner; 70% Tesla, 25% SpaceX, 5% Neural Link.
While Musk was recognized for tremendous success with all three (particularly Tesla and SpaceX), he started to make a series of mistakes that made me question his mental health / decision making. It began with going on Rogan and smoking a blunt. No judgement here for what someone does in their free time, but to smoke weed on the largest podcast as the CEO of multiple corporations (with billion dollar market caps no less) shows irresponsibility. Making it stranger, it looked like he didnt inhale or know how to smoke weed, which likely made this a publicity stunt, and one that frankly seemed to backfire.
Musk continued to do outrageous things, like manipulate the price of Dogecoin, tweet in a Trump-like manner, and mention he was working 20+ hours a day and sleeping on his Tesla factory floors. All the while, any time employees would come to him with an issue they couldnt fix, he was notorious for firing them. Then, his ego started getting the best of him, and he got involved in the billionaire space race. Almost forgot to mention the whole dating Grimes thing, and divorcing his previous three wives.
In summation, Musk seems to have gotten too wealthy and the power has gone to his head. While he once stood for something admirable, he is now just another corrupt egotistical CEO looking to manipulate the market via Twitter. “You either die a hero or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain,” the perfect way to sum up Elon's unraveling. Once a beacon for hope and positive change, he know reminds me more of Sam Walmart than a Gandhi / Bill Gates hybrid.
The people who still hold him in extremely high regard are either ignorant or incapable of being impartial. Once one of his biggest supporters, I expect he will either collapse in on himself like a dying star or will completely tank Tesla and have a mental breakdown. I wish he would return to his old ways and truly try to bring forth positive change, but I think those days are behind him.
Lastly, it will be interesting to watch what happens to him as his NW plummets as markets fall in the rest of '22 and '23, given that his NW is so closely tied to Tesla. I think he was trying to buy Twitter because he felt he could either A. make it profitable, or B. it' share price would fall at a slower pace than Tesla.
Edit: For the record, I'm still rooting for the guy. I just want him to remember what initially made him passionate about business, and to use that at his own benchmark for his success.
The cult of personality effect. And everyone should look up how actually messed up these other individuals are (they are not the heroes media wants you to believe).
Couldn't agree more, but the strangest thing about Musk is everyone seems to feel their opinion is the minority.
Using only anecdotal data, when discussing Musk with friends / colleagues, when I criticized him I received mostly eye rolls, with follow up comments about how I was "jumping on the anti-Musk bandwagon". I was pretty surprised by this as from my lens it seemed that the majority of the folks out there (in the States at least) glorified him. I really like the prompt in this thread because there seems to be such mixed opinions. Some people are very comfortable giving him little / no credit, whereas others find him to be the second coming of Jesus
It's Gandhi
Good catch, appreciate you. I often write without re-reading my posts haha
I stopped caring what that incel had to say when I learned he was the richest man in the world who still can't get laid...
Bro he has like 40 kids
https://www.businesstoday.in/trending/world/story/elon-musk-says-he-has…
He has 8 kids. Kind of a weak comment.
Do not understand what you would be mad at him for? He invented a business that provided a car that people enjoyed and he got rich, there is nothing wrong with this. He wants to colonize mars also to help the planet expand and is trying to work on a implant to help paralyzed people. is the negative view because he is so rich?
No, not at all. I have absolutely no problem with the fact that he’s rich. I find buffet and gates among others very inspiring. He just seems really hypocritical to me a lot of times. To give an example, he shits on mbas running companies while he goes to upenn cas and majors in econ. Then, he goes on and on about his ‘physics background’ when all he did was a BA. And also what I wrote in the original post about him manipulating markets. I guess my point is that he’s making himself appear like a hero but is no different from successful entrepreneurs. Meanwhile you don’t see other billionaires painting this fake image of themselves. Someone wrote a great comment earlier but it sadly got taken down.
He absolutely did not "invent" Tesla. That company already existed when he bought into it. There is a strong argument to be made that he had very little to do with Tesla's success. He invested in it's Series A, but had little to do with the day to day of the company.
As a rule, it makes sense not to unthinkingly buy into a narrative someone is spouting if it makes them look good. Elon Musk is a great hype guy and a great promoter, and his involvement has probably led to a lot of the growth in Tesla's share price, but again... he didn't design any of the products or parts. He invested a great deal of his own money, but by no means was the only investor. He's basically a Kardashian for the tech sector - his only success is the appearance of success, not an innate contribution to or creation of a business. While Mr Musk provided valuable equity, most of the success of Tesla has been due to government aid and technological advances which have made EVs cheaper which had nothing to do with Mr Musk.
Ehhh I think Musk always deserves the credit for not only making EVs profitable but also successfully scaling the company into the black. No one else could make EVs profitable. Many large scale auto OEMs tried and failed. However, Musks cracked the battery process, creating the gigafactory, and taking a massive capital investment risk. He offered EVs at a far lower cost than competitors could, and still focused on reducing costs even further. Then he was able to scale until EV and Tesla were virtually synonymous. That will change (and already has) more and more over the course of the next decade, but I think Musk deserves credit for Tesla's success.
Elon: literally running Tesla, SpaceX, that company that is doing hyperloop, buying Twitter and colonizing Mars at the same time
Random guy on the internet: HiS oNlY SuCcEsS iS tHe ApPeArAnCe oF SuCcEsS
The dude had $180 million dollars and spent ALL of it on new ventures. The balls on that guy. If I had $180 million dollars I would probably only spend a fraction of that for new business development and live like a king. Power to him, he pulled it off. I think he did run into some tough challenges at Tesla.
I got a violation for this post:
And the post was auto-removed. What is wrong with WSO right now?
Yup, my post got auto-dinged as well despite being relevant and PC. @wallstreetoasis flagging this for a hopefully quick fix
Got dinged last night too. For simplly mentioning Youkraine. I get the creators and a lot of staff are from there, and I support them. But let's keep it in our pants boys. You want NSA or FBI CARNIVORE stuff?
Edit: I mispelled on purpose because of the potential filters and I'd rather support WSO than get flagged.
looks published to me... maybe was auto dinged for some reason bc of "the balls on that guy"? but looks like our mods published it...
there were two comments on this post earlier that got instantly removed too. It didn’t even say anything bad. Probably used a censored word or sum
When the guy started talking about his solutions for Ukraine and Taiwan, I stopped listening. Outside of that he has done some good.
Free referenda...except if you live in Crimea of course
i dont hate the guy, but I think hes enjoying the spot light a little too much
What media are you consuming where he is painted as a saint? I feel like I constantly just see people shitting on him recently.
Instagram and youtube, but also many random articles on the internet
I find him quite relatable. Other than him being a lot smarter and more successful than me, we're pretty similar. He's a big picture guy who recognizes that you only get one life, and thinks everyone's petty little rules are stupid and a waste of time. And he's right.
A lot of the negative media attention comes from motivated enemies (especially Tesla shorts) who are looking to make a big deal about every little off-color thing he does.
If Carl Icahn pulled the Twitter stunt, the media would be like "oh there's Carl being Carl again, what a character!". But Musk does it and they're all outraged.
He is a master self promoter but not really serious about many things he wades into given his intellect and success.
His recent post about Ukraine and the breaking news of him "potentially" talking to Putin prior to his Ukraine post is in my opinion something he needs to stay out of. Don't think being a billionaire qualifies you as a international war negotiator. Just noise and doesn't provide any value for the problem besides inserting his name so people discuss him. If anything it hurts Ukraine's chances as certain people then jump onto his bandwagon, but if you support his take I guess that is good for you. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but some restraint when people are dying in war would be appreciated.
The purchase of Twitter is not something he really wants but he is stuck and trying to get out of the deal. I'm speculating he felt he could get out of it when necessary but that is proving harder than expected. He says he wants to improve free speech on the internet, but if he was really serious about free speech what real research/work has he done in this domain? As a big picture type guy which organizations has a aligned himself with on how to solve rather random posts every few days?
Going to take over Twitter and says going to have to cut X% of you via twitter. Guess I'm old school but I wouldn't appreciate hearing about something like that affecting my colleagues and myself.
I could go on....
Is he successful? Yes, but don't like how he operates
Free speech isn't nearly as hard as Twitter's soon-to-be-ousted leadership made it out to be. There wasn't even a modicum of transparency or fairness in how they were applying it. If you're interested in learning more about it, I suggest watching the discussion between Tim Poole and Vijaya Gadde (with Dorsey and Rogan chiming in a bit) on Rogan's podcast. Or save yourself 3 hours and let me summarize: management attempts to make their regulation of speech appear content neutral and not agenda-driven, and for three straight hours Tim Poole dismantles that case with example after example.
So I'm really not sure what you mean when you say Elon has to do "research" to improve free speech. Any roughly fair-minded person could just slap some basic rules on Twitter's content and get a much better outcome than what we've had.
Respectfully disagree with the "free speech isn't nearly as hard..." statement. It has been an issue in the United States for over 200 years with various people's interpretations across the political spectrum on even the definition of free speech. They even had add an amendment to the constitution to protect it. :-) We won't solve the problem here but I will take a listen to the podcast.
Regarding basic rules on twitter I believe it is a complex problem to be solved that requires study and research and yes...regulation. Social media has transformed into the journalism of the past for a large majority of the country. Countless cases when social media has been used to sensationalize topic of today like yellow journalism of the past. I know you don't want social media to be used spread disinformation, lies and innuendo but that is what happens. Social media mobs have turned into real mobs and people have died due to it. I can't see how that is solved without regulation as money will always be the primary motivator as the recent twitter whistleblower has testified.
Journalism went through a transformation period where they weren't, to when they were, responsible for the content on their platforms. Twitter and other sites need to be responsible for what is on their platforms. Believe we just disagree on the approach but thanks for the podcast recommendation.
How many billions of tweets a year are there? Even three straight hours of bringing up conflicting examples wouldn't be proof that Twitter's speech policies are unfair. I don't particularly like Twitter, but bringing up individual examples of hypocrisy is far from decisive evidence. And more to the point, Twitter isn't (currently) obligated to provide a platform for opinions which violate their terms of service, so it's a nothing burger to begin with. Frankly, right wing trolling doesn't drive views, as we see with the abject failure of platforms designed to host those opinions, so Twitter is/was making an intelligent business decision to get rid of them. No one is obligated to give you (generically speaking, not you personally) a bullhorn to espouse whatever bullshit of the moment you believe in.
If Congress decides social media platforms are common carriers it'll be a different story, of course, but until then this is just more playing at being a victim.
We disagree on this methods and intentions. His recent turning off Starlink in Crimea only demonstrates this.
Dude's a moron. Some of us are born to it, some come to it later in life.
He let his success and his cult of admirers get to his head now he spends all his time giving hot takes on things he clearly knows nothing about. Did the same thing with his businesses - got away from the fundamentals, coasted too long on his own success, now he's just a huckster relying on his sales skills and cult to hawk hack BS or things way past their prime.
Key man risk, it's a real problem. His companies would likely be much better off without him at this point, and the world would be a lot better without his sh**y takes.
I do not think there is really any case you can make that he is a moron. He started coding at 10 and sold a computer game by the time he is 12. Fairly impressive
You must be young. The sheer volume of highly credentialed, highly qualified people who are m*rons is absurd.
More importantly, people making themselves m*rons because they decide to involve themselves or opine on topics outside of their narrow area of expertise is incredibly commonplace.
Musk is 100% the latter, potentially the former as well. People can start coding at 10, sell a computer game at 12, and still be m*rons.
I’ll keep it short and sweet: I don’t like him as a person, but damn has he had some career. I respect his work ethic, his vision, his business acumen, his drive, etc. But other than that, he’s hard to like
Some of the posts in here saying he has nothing to do with Tesla's success are laughable. Really? The guys that shits out $100b companies had nothing to do with their success?
You can argue someone got lucky once. Maybe twice. But he's done it so many times now, it's extremely impressive.
Yes, he's an amazing promoter too. This is a legitimate entrepreneurial skill just like any type of sales.
It’s just Alt left folks like Ozy who are angry he doesn’t conform to their agenda
Billionaire?
Bunch of kids with different women?
Used to be a Democrat?
Shameless self-promoter?
Spews hot takes on Twitter?
Hang on a second, I forgot who we were talking about.
1) Elon gets way more negative publicity lately than positive - so you're wrong here about media painting him a saint, it's the opposite. media paints him as greedy conservative authoritarian billionaire who doesn't pay any taxes.
2) what he says doesn't matter. judge a man by his actions. a lot of shitty people out there are good talkers but don't do any good. he created an electric vehicle company that help humanity with one of the main concerns on the planet - climate change. plus he's working on helping humanity with space exploration which has limitless possibilities. these are his actions, not just words.
3) he actually negatively impacts himself with his talking and tweeting. people are refusing to buy teslas now cause they think Elon is a republican supporter. so you're wrong here too that he's making himself a fortune with his talking.
Disagree. Elon's core skill and one of the biggest drivers behind his companies' success is his capacity for self-promotion and hype creation. As a result, Tesla spends approximately zero on marketing / investor relations, one of the factors behind their industry-leading reported gross margins.
The sad thing is that Elon wishes he had the same level of engineering talent (see the texts from the Twitter case where he claims to be a "hardcore coder"), but probably doesn't.
In the guy-standing-in-the-corner-at-a-party meme, people like Musk and Jobs are dancing while the engineers are in the corner thinking "they can't even code".
yeah he was successful with self-promotion up until recently, now it turned 180.
WSO keeps deleting everything I have to say about Elon
Hard to even tell what WSO deletes on purpose and what it doesn't. I've had stuff deleted, or appear to be deleted, and then still get replies to it. And then sometimes it re-appears.
They should leave a block where they've chosen to delete a post. And until that can be done, maybe just don't delete posts. It's really not necessary.
It sucks they need to stop the hyper moderation way too much getting auto flagged
leaving the block where a comment was modded is coming... false positives an issue we're working on now.
Potential violation detected
A lady's special massager.
Threads like this makes you wonder how many bots there are on WSO
I just got my post deleted for insinuating this could be a bot-heavy discussion. Christ Almighty what is the internet coming to.
Can't say that.
The amount of hate on this thread for a guy that arguably is the Thomas Edison of our time is absurd. Without him, EVs wouldn't be as mainstream as they are today and we wouldn't be talking about sending people to mars... accomplishments that clearly make the world a better place.
Is he human, had a volatile personal life and has he posted bad Tweets? Obviously. However, he's not the traditional "business savvy" person on this website, the majority of whom (myself included) generate wealth by taking the value of what others have built and making a fee off of it.
Clearly his private life and public antics are only a small negative of his overwhelmingly positive profile/accomplishments.
Thomas Edison was an inventor. Elon Musk is a venture capitalist. The fact that you are sincerely comparing the two is why Elon Musk gets hated on - he's actively cultivated an image as some sort of genius inventor/engineer, when really all he's done is invest his money wisely.
We've been talking about sending people to Mars for decades. Elon Musk has nothing to do with that - it's merely a function of NASA having it's funding stripped. And it is impossible to prove a negative, but I find it hard to believe that without Mr Musk we wouldn't have EVs
Sort of like what Elon Musk does!
What, exactly, are his positive accomplishments? He's not involved in the day to day of Tesla or SpaceX, so the success of those companies is as much his as it is mine as a shareholder. His attempt to purchase Twitter is a colossal blunder. He's proving more and more every day that his success was the kind of lucky chance that invariably occurs to someone, and his continuing attempts to piss away all that goodwill shows just how little he had to do with it in the first place
If you've read his history at all, which it sounds like you haven't, he was a founder / software engineer at a few companies in the late 1990s and early 2000s before eventually merging his company into what would become PayPal, etc., etc. For the majority of his career, he was an operator of his companies, which is completely different than a venture capitalist. He had the vision, he hired the right people, he worked his ass off, his ideas almost died numerous times but he kept going and his companies grew into the mammoths that they are today. I'm not arguing he knows how to create an EV or rocket, but he brought in the right resources and made his vision a reality. To argue that he just invested his money wisely doesn't make any sense.
The pushback on his impact in the EV market is also absurd. What was there before Tesla? Nothing. Tesla was the first mainstream EV anywhere and other automakers followed suite.
For SpaceX, the completely commercialized space exploration and brought down the costs of space exploration by innovating and creating re-usable boosters... maybe people have thought about doing this in the past, but again, no one did it before he did.
I think the majority of the hate comes from his online persona, which I get. But stop pretending like he is just a Scrooge McDuck doing a breast stroke in a pile of coins and adding no value.
I was a fanboy of Musk’s until he pushed thru Tesla’s acquisition of Solar City in 2016. It was a very shady deal that seemed designed to enrich himself at the expense of Tesla shareholders. He’s been on a steady decline in my eyes since then - showing a steady decline in integrity. His latest with Russia puts it over the top. Is he a genius? Sure. Are some geniuses bad people? Of course.
Couple points:
1. Musk is Musk. In some ways, we all want him to be Tony Stark or movie character that is on the factory floor hammering out pieces himself. Same with every other business person/celebrity. Most of their work is done by a team of people but we just attribute it to one person. Think, the Iphone, or Thernos (they didn't really invent anything but everyone attributed everything Holmes). Or when celebrity investors do things. Ashton Kusher investing in Airbnb and Uber pre IPO wasn't just him digging through the statements or Jessica Alba wasn't making Honest Tea in her basement. Point is, some people and also probably Elon himself want to buy into an idea, and that fuels his aura/ago. Leading to my next point.
2. I'm a big golf guy, I remember how they treated Tiger Woods in his prime. One time he was testing four different golf clubs they asked him which one he liked, he said "the lightest one", they weighted all four and one was like a gram lighter. People acted like he could feel that weight in his hands, when really, you show me four of anything and say ones the lightest you'd be correct. Same with Elon, a lot of stuff he says is just in some ways a trick. (side note: when he just had the kid with his employee, his basic reasoning was the world is under populated. Imagine if some guy making minimum wage tried to use that excuse).
3. Ironically, when Apple invented the Iphone all the other companies began to make phones that were basically Iphone clones; the ironic part is that CEOs basically copy Jobs now.
I mean, this is only true to an extent. Musk gets adulation and credit that most other investors don't receive. Benchmark Capital Partners doesn't get credit for the success of Snap, despite Mitch Lasky playing the same role as Elon Musk (without the incessant tweeting, of course).
And, of course, there are plenty of contrasting cases. Mark Zuckerberg actually founded Facebook. For better or worse, he's involved in the day to day - that's an instance where you can equate the company with the man. Obviously there are tons of people managing micro issues, but he founded the company, created the platform, and has been intimately involved since. None of that can be said for Elon Musk and Tesla.
Elon Musk has done a very good job of positioning himself in the public eye as the "genius" behind a lot of the companies he's involved with, whether or not he's actually doing anything meaningful for the products being created or the organization being managed. The fact that he's got an enormous ego and wants to pretend to be a business leader rather than a venture capitalist. There isn't any shame in that, obviously, but Mr Musk clearly wants to be seen as a Tony Stark, creating all this crazy tech, and the lengths he goes to to imprint that on the public, and the degree to which people like @medellin eat it up, just astonishes me
I really don't think he's any worse than the other weird billionaires we've had.
For example, Sheldon Adelson spent billions bribing our government to work on behalf of a foreign power and the Saudi royals kill people.
i would tell you if these mods quit deleting my shit jesus what is this place
Look at the trail of people getting yeeted off this thread (including mine).
Tesla cars catch fire, drive into cement road barriers and the quality is junk. SpaceX is a money furnace. Solar is a major fail. And if you are a CEO of his, he impregnates you. The auto majors are scaling EVs. Musk knows it’s all going to catch up to him soon and Twitter is a sure signal of his desperation. He will end up as a foot note history. Forgotten.
Assume Let’s say that you had $165 million after the company you used to run had been bought by eBay. What would you make of it? You could buy an island and retire there for the rest of your life, living in bliss and luxury. Most people would not object because you have plainly earned it. That was not done by Elon Musk. He put a lot of that money back into Tesla and SpaceX to assist hasten the transition away from fossil fuels and to provide humanity with a backup planet, or series of backup planets and moons, in case we were already screwed.
He’s a charlatan. He capitalized on a decade worth of government subsidies that single handedly propped his business up, followed by the single greatest short term super bubble and infusion of stimulus in human history. Elon Musk is what happens when opportunism meets extraordinary, once in a lifetime timing/ good fortune. Now he thinks he’s qualified to opine on geopolitical matters. Lol
Don’t know if you’ve read outliers but I think every billionaire is a case of “opportunism meeting extraordinary”
I don't think the media is portraying Elon as a saint at all - I think the opposite, if anything.
His antics with the market are amusing, but IMO if you're remotely affected by them, you're the idiot, as he's only manipulating the most risky, volatile, and dogshit assets (BTC, DOGE, his own supremely overvalued stock).
I'm not sure how you define good. Propelling the EV industry into the mainstream is huge, whether ESG agrees with his rather conservative policies or not, he's helped Ukraine with Starlink, and he has revolutionized space travel. Seems like a pretty incredible guy to me.
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