Why isn't there such a huge focus on exits in other fields?
So we know the vast majority of high finance dudes are in it for the exits. I think that's a huge thing that makes finance unique - attrition is high, leaving your firm is very normal, unlike possibly other careers where leaving the firm probs meant you fucked up somewhere.
Question: why isn't there such a huge focus on exits in other similarly demanding or more demanding careers. Medicine, law, engineering etc come to mind. Especially in medicine, junior doctors & housemen are worked to the bone, and they graduate med school at the same age where the typical finance dude has already jumped thru a few exits or has left finance altogether. And it's not a secret that finance isn't rocket science, so the content alone in those fields are already more intellectually difficult than finance. I don't talk to a lot of people in other fields, but I don't think doctors go into medicine planning to exit into whatever the PE equivalent of medicine is. Doctors & lawyers have more grit than investment bankers? Thoughts?
I think people in finance are more motivated by money than people in the other fields you mentioned. In addition, the learning curve is significantly lower for finance than it is for law or medicine.
Simply put, thats just not how it works within those fields. Take being a doctor for example. The first decision you make is primary care vs. specialty, which IMMEDIATELY will determine your tax bracket for more or less, your entire career. While primary care physicians do very well (e.g., 40 hours a week at 350k a year), they dont sniff specialist money. Orthopedic surgeons can clear 3-4 MM a year if they are really good. On average, specialists focusing on the more lucrative niches of medicine make 500k-1.5 mm after a few YOE, but dont seek exits because there aren't any. If anything, they lateral for better pay. But there is no exit opportunity, as they are a specialist in one area of medicine. What else would they be qualified to do for more money? Nothing
So to get back to your question, why arent there exit opportunities? Unlike in finance, your experience is restricted to what you focused on, and your skill set is less transferable. The same logic applies to lawyers as well. While lawyers can continue to get in with better and better firms, most job hop less and focus on winning bigger cases or outperforming their historicals and then getting promoted.
In other words, you arent building a skillset that makes you a viable candidate for other roles unless you go back to school. If you go back to school you can make absolute bank, especially when you go the JD + MBA route. This is how you can be a head of legal, get on boards, etc. These guys make serious coin and unlike IBD MDs they arent selling anything for a living, they generate their worth through their guidance / unique knowledge base.
Your numbers are nowhere near accurate around physician comp. An orthopod making 3-4mm would be an extreme outlier. I don’t have access to the really granular MGMA data, but here’s a summary of medscape’s data: https://www.advisory.com/daily-briefing/2022/04/19/physician-compensati… The average ortho is at 557 and the average family physician is at 255. There’s a fair bit of intraspecialty variation but orthopods making north of $1MM are probably less than 10% and skew heavily towards those doing ortho trauma. Compensation is reflective of RVU generation and payer mix. The only way to hit $3-4 is to build a business and employ physicians and mid levels under you.
So the first thing you need to understand about the HC space is that tennure goes a long way. At least with the comp models I've seen, a physician (specialty or PCP) generally makes a lot more after year 20 than after year 1, similar to any other field. Therefore, the figures I provided above are on the high end for good reason, think of it like providing a cap on what MDs in IBD can make. In order to bring my point home, I wanted to show just how much you could make without changing industries, or even employers, harping on why you don't need exit opportunities.
Without getting too into it, I have worked with / for companies where I have directly reviewed physician salaries ACROSS THE BOARD. I was looking at a company paying below market value, and can say with 100% certainty that specialty physicians can easily, and I do mean easily clear 750k+, all the way through 1.5 mm. Further, the best in the business can 100% clear 3 mm a year, just as the top MDs in IBD can make multiples of their coworkers. I dont have a data source on this but I spent months analyzing physician comp, whereas your data source is from a non-Medical website. There will be a million data points talking about how PCPs making 200-400k all in, and specialists make 300-500k on AVERAGE, but I strongly disagree when you break the data out by specialty type. Additionally, I am focusing on medical providers who have been in the field for 10+ years. If you are a orthopedic surgeon working 10+ years and consider yourself to be very good and arent clearly 1 mm, I think its time to switch employers. I have seen companies paying 1.5 mm to their ortho surgeons with around that 10 year tenure who are concerned their surgeons will leave to do level of pay.
If you are going to try and correct me, its best to use solid data or to speak from experience.
Here is the link to salaries by field. Keep in mind this is by no means the max. In order to clear 1 mm a year you need to be really really good, but that is no different than pretty much any field except IBD lol
Deal Team pretty much nails it.
Private practice ownership for the specialist -is- the exit. 7 figures on 40 hours a week? 8-12 weeks vacation. 99% of the people on this board would take that deal.
The ‘exits’ for doctors:
-move to private practice or join a group practice.
-open a surgery center/acquire additional offices
-hire associate doctors
-hospital teaching, lecture circuit, research private/public, expert consultant.
all of these put the doctor in control of their earnings and wlb.
This is a great addition and a much more well articulated analysis of physician "exits". Private practice really is the goal for virtually all in the medical field, as it can be lucrative at the primary care level as well (not as lucrative but better wlb in the sense of more PTO and equity upside). The caveat is the larger "private practices" dont operate that differently from a hospital or massive health system. When you think private practice you really want to be 1 of say 30 specialists. Otherwise you have less control over salary, bonuses, hours worked, etc.
> So we know the vast majority of high finance dudes are in it for the exits. I think that's a huge thing that makes finance unique - attrition is high, leaving your firm is very normal, unlike possibly other careers where leaving the firm probs meant you fucked up somewhere.
Isn't the average duration at a firm in Silicon Valley less than 2 years? I heard if you stay at Google for more than two years you're essentially a failure, and it's rare to find someone in the company that has been there for more than 5 years.
Am at Google for five years now, this is not true. At least half of the people in my starting cohort are still at Google in some way. Average tenure in my existing team like 6+ years at Google.
It's a super comfortable employer, and the perks and lifestyle when you get to the stage where kids become interesting becomes very hard to beat.
I cant fathom why anyone would feel inclined to leave Google after two years? Where are you going to get better comp, experience, WLB, and brand?
For engineering there is nothing to exit to. Theres no pipeline from ib -> pe -> hf.
You can't "exit" to quant trading as a non new grad if you don't have top tier math background. You can't "exit" to quant research without a phd.
You can move to swe at quant firms but once you get more senior unless you are a TOP performer you will not be making more as a swe in hft compared to swe in tech. Its also not really an exit more of a lateral.
You can move to pm but only internally at some companies. You can't just start interviewing for pm externally. So this isn't really an "exit" and its not like you earn more as a pm either.
You can try your hand at some startup accelerators but anyone can do that.
Lmao could you imagine if doctors in residency thought like that?
"Yeah, I'm only going to do Urology for two years until I build up my network and experience enough to exit to plastic surgery, start getting that REAL bread. Randy left 6 months ago and drives a Porsche now."
For law there is only one exit: In-house. The vast majority who go into biglaw do so to repay their loans and then they head out. After you move in-house there isn't much to do beside moving in-house around different companies for a higher salary.
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