The pandemic has destroyed the way zoomers socialize. Internationally there seems to be a large issue with birth rates, probably exacerbated recently by Covid keeping the young pent up in doors.
Zoomer trends are to stay inside and watch tik tok. They actively stay away from drinking, which is largely a social activity. They also are facing large issues with loneliness.
There is an increasing political divide amongst young men and women, with a few articles stating that mysandry and mysoginy is on the rise.
Would actually be interesting to see any published research on this. Like, are post-Covid teens really more unsociable and TikTok-bound
let me tell you this: i went to uni right after covid and (for this and other reasons) only now do my classmates actually interact a bit more regularly with each pther. all younger classes have a MUCH higher attendance rate and actually socialise much more
Pent-up demand for interaction, very plausible.
del
Internet has given people a ton more options which psychologically makes you want to stay single and not settle down. Anecdotally I've noticed this personally, for example when I've lived in a small town vs a large city, I've noticed myself wanting to get into a relationship more in the former vs latter. I imagine this translates quite well to the social media era where people are bombarded with options (especially dating apps etc) which psychologically stops people entering long term relationships.
So many stats on young people not being in relatonships, having kids, settling down etc. vs older generations.
Totally agree. Nobody is living in the moment. At parties and whatnot people are reluctant to socialize with new ppl. I think it is because the world is in their pocket. They dont need to entertain the ppl in front of them when their entire social network follows them online. Abundance mentality kinda thing. The implication here is people are not growing their offline network, not hooking up as much, etc.
I think the not wanting to settle down and lower birth rates also has to do with a couple more things. First is that life has just gotten really expensive meaning the financial decision to have children is much greater than it previously was. Second, I think social media plays a part. It's so easy now to see all the possibilities of what you can do for fun. Youtube shows you travel videos, Instagram shows stories of all the trips and parties your friends are having. It gives you a sense that there is so much to do out there in the world that it makes people feel like they'd rather do that than start a family. Back decades ago, most people only imagined an occasional trip to Europe, Mexico or Florida on their bucket lists. Life probably felt like it got a lot more boring after spending your 20's going to your local hangout spots and finally got sick of them, so the next step was to just start a family.
Will try to keep this brief because I’ve thought about this for a while and could rant all day, but I think what we’re seeing are the beginning of the consequences of kids growing up online. Back in my day as a pre-teen/teen (in the early/mid 2000s) you were, for lack of a better term, a complete fucking loser if you spent all of your time “on the internet.”
Now it’s inescapable. Not sure where the exact cutoff falls but millions and millions of people have grown up in a time where they were connected 24/7, overloaded by information, misinformation, and disinformation, form anyone, anywhere, on the planet. It’s too much for our monkey brains to have caught up with on an evolutionary basis. We’re only a few thousand years out from the invention of written language. The printing press wasn’t even 600 years ago. Radio just over 100, cable TV ~70(?), the internet only became mainstream in probably the late 90s, and let’s say social media has only really been relevant the last 10-15 years.
Kids and teenagers right now are living huge portions of their lives on Tik Tok, Discord, Reddit, and whatever other platforms I’m probably too old to even realize are popular. Even in earlier iterations of internet communication like old school forums, there was a more civilized decorum (bear with me on this one) that simply isn’t present today. You would be relentlessly mocked if you compared someone to Hitler/nazis (Google Godwin’s law, you young bols), now that’s integral to any political discussion. Social media gave everyone a voice, and most people truly are too dumb to be heard, and most people are too undisciplined to ignore them.
And surprisingly, the general lack of internet literacy is astounding for people who spend their entire lives on it. Even here on WSO, look at how many morons fall for the most transparent troll posts (“don’t feed the trolls” was internetting101 20yrs ago). And the amount of scams they fall for would put boomers to shame.
Now it’s getting close to bedtime as it nears 5pm, so I’ll go find some other clouds to yell at before settling in for Matlock reruns.
The kids dont drink anymore and the implication is that they arent going out as much. Just take a look at sales figures for your favorite beverage, most likely it is down double digits. I saw natty light is down like -20% y/y. Wild. Maybe they’re just getting stoned?
The immigration situation has made Modelo and Corona pretty resilient. Only that and some specialty liquors are up y/y.
I do think people are smoking more than they are drinking, I’ve experienced this firsthand. But I think drinking is down overall without a substitute.
The substitute may be weed, people tend to not drink when they smoke
As much as I like to make fun of Zoomers, in all fairness they're doing the best they can with the complete crock of bullshit handed to them by the Gen Xers and Boomers just like the millennials. They aren't the ones who turned schools into padded rooms where the tranny social contagion runs rampant confusing them about their self identity before it's even fully formed and misbehaving violent youths get to run amuck and disrupt everyone else's learning - that's the fault of Boomers who supported "No Child Left Behind" and Gen Xers who forced schools to be an "inclusive" environment rather than one that separates out the miscreants from the gifted performers and the rest of the student body. What can you expect from the ones entering the workforce on a social level when they'd need to be making $200k+ to just to have a comparable quality of life as their parents might've making $70-80k in the 90s/early-2000s, can't be going out and having fun with friends as regularly, hours expected to be working are arguably worse/more intense than they used to be thanks to productivity creep, and they're constantly being bombarded on social media with unrealistic personal and processional images they inevitably compare themselves to. They didn't ask to be handed phones and social media while in elementary school that mess up their real-world socialization during adolescence and instead isolate them at home into various fringe online spaces. They weren't participating in the market during any of the last 3-4 big bubble pops seen during their lifetime and the next one that comes will be completely irrespective of any actions they take in the interim.
They've been handed a big 'ol shit sandwich and are eating it. It's not that surprising they're acting out/behaving strange while doing so.
Edit: At least in the US - the gender political divide is pretty clear once you parse the changes that have happened to gender roles over the past 30-40 years, but the whole misandry and misogyny is on the rise bit is bullshit. Women beat everyone in the West over the head with the "equality" drum for decades (yet are still not signed up for the draft...), but now that they're treated equally (one could even argue advantageously in some areas) they cry foul while still expecting to be handed special rights/protections simply for having a uterus. There ain't no 18 y/o men shaking their dicks around online getting invited on yachts while making 10s of 1000s a month from simp subscriptions. There are no men going around demanding everything be paid for and be taken care of, then after getting married turning around and using no fault divorce laws in their favor when they get bored. The last 2-3 waves of feminism have effectively pushed women to become men while simultaneously infantilizing them by expunging them any responsibility for their own actions - be a sex worker and if he doesn't like it he's insecure, fuck around a bunch and if you get pregnant just kill it, dress/act however you please in public and if anyone makes you feel uncomfortable it's harassment, etc.
oh god fuck off with the self defeating 'Millennials and Zoomers have it SOOOOO hard because Boomers screwed everything up!' pity party. Not only is it factually incorrect, all it does is reveal yourself to the rest of the group as a giant loser who cant take accountability for their own decisions in life.
That will get you thousands of pats on the back on Reddit. But here, and in real life, it will get you mocked and deservedly so
It's not a pity party lmfao it's a fact that boomers and gen X proposed and drove forward shit policies that had insane impacts over the last 40+ years on the broader economy, the educational system, and have systematically crippled the historically strong social unit that is the nuclear family(e.g. the preponderance of things like no fault divorce and construction of a welfare state that encourages single motherhood). Gen Z and Millennials didn't run up $34T+ on the country's credit card but they're sure as hell going to be on the hook for figuring it all our since none of the geriatric fucks currently running the country will do anything about it before they croak.
It's no wonder a bunch of these kids in high school/college self-identify as socialists/communists after they've been bombarded their entire childhoods that America has an inherently evil history, overpopulation and climate change are going to destroy the world in their lifetimes, and have seen their families largely kicked around by various economic crises while the average QoL has steadily declined due to the rampant inflation and culture/community has withdrawn due to changes in media and uncontrolled immigration destroying social cohesion - they're wrong, and ignorant for thinking that's a solution, but it's not surprising why they think that (not to mention the fault of the aforementioned educational system for not teaching them why it's not a solution).
It is actually a fact. People who were young children or weren't born when all this policy was pushed out are not responsible for the impact it has, they are the ones it impacted.
What does any of this have to do with younger folks not taking accountability for anything? There are plenty of Zoomers and Millennials that are outgoing and successful. But the overwhelming increase in depression, suicide, and failure to launch types is not nearly as simple as "young kids are fucking pussies" - they're pussies because their parents and grandparents were greedy shits that didn't think about the future or long-term impact of the policies they chose. There were voices in both older generations who pointed out XYZ is probably going to lead to ABC but all the government worshipping nitwits ignored them anyway and here we are.
I'm not some Redditor looking for a pat on the back and I'm the first one to mock people looking for a handout. I don't need you to tell me how real life works - I'm doing more than fine. All I was pointing out is that it's stupid to pretend all the problems with Gen Z are purely due to their own decisions. They're working with what they've been given - which yes there's a lot of good, but undoubtedly there's also a lot more baggage than prior generations have ever had to deal with.
learn to spell please
Zoomers are a product of their times. It's not their fault per se, but it truly is horrific what the setting of internet nativity has produced in a globalized world -- particularly in developed markets where struggle is so miniscule compared to EMs
Worsening living standards is one driver behind falling birth rates & such, but internet's impact is pouring gasoline on it. You can get a 'just good enough' version of enough human things with the internet like:
- Conversation with real friends vs. arguing with internet randos on forums or social media
- Seeing people IRL vs. watching TV
- Dating women vs. using po*n
- Accomplishing something / conquering vs. playing video games
There is already MORE than enough stuff online and coming out annually to live a fully digital life beyond the bare minimum interactions outside of it (going to a job, buying groceries) -- though even a lot of this has been lost with remote work and delivery services. So even less interaction!
AI generated content will turbocharge this and make today's level of personalization look laughable. Add on even deeper immersion via tech like 5G, better quality graphics on everything (seriously mindblowing to compare PS5 vs. PS4 or 8k graphics vs. 4k graphics), and even headsets like Apple Vision Pro...and you get a society where the cost of not interacting with others seemingly keeps falling
None of this is good btw, this will NEVER fulfill the human spirit over the long term. But it's just the state of affairs. As a kid who grew up in the 2000s, I really frickin miss that time in America. It was a far better balance of digital vs. real, political tolerance, value & role of religion in public life, etc.
People best start believing in the metaverse - we’re in one. It just didn’t take the corny form being pushed, but you outlined it well: they can essentially live parallel lives through various platforms, all carefully engineered to deliver those sweet sweet dopamine hits.
I don’t even want to try to predict how generative AI will fit into this as it advances. How will people perceive and navigate reality when any picture, any audio clip, any video, could be a fake? This is going to be a wild decade.
Yeah good point -- I think when people think metaverse, they usually are drawn to Ready Player One. But the world we're in right now is almost like an alpha / beta version of the metaverse that will likely exist 50yrs from now (a prototype of sorts)
The digitization of EVERYTHING (entertainment, commerce, work, etc) was supercharged with Covid. People can get their dopamine hits 10x the forms they could get in 2019 with content of virtually any kind. Right now the digital identity / identities is balanced with IRL, what happens in a decade though? The former could very well outman the latter if you're someone under the age of 35 (Gen Z and Gen Alpha)
To your point in being a wild decade, people underestimate the magnitude of changes that can happen in the LT. Look at online dating, used to be for absolute clowns back in 2004 -- less than 20yrs later it's actually odd to not be on it if you're single and under 40. Social media, online entertainment, etc all following a pretty similar path.
Here's the difference now -- EVERYONE under 40 is completely habituated to digital so adoption rates for new tech will massively accelerate (as they already have -- just look at how long it took FB to get to 100ml users vs. TikTok). So the same change that took 20yrs in the past may only take 5-10yrs today if it's free / cheap. Apple Vision Pro by default will have a much longer adoption rate unless they get the price point down ($1k would be ideal on their end, but no higher than $1.5k), but maybe Meta sweeps in there too. As the applications get more fleshed out and price points come down, in a decade this could become the new iPad (if not the new iPhone)
Dopamine Nation by Anna Lembke should be required reading in high school
Looks super interesting- thanks for the recommendation. Just added it to my reading list
Yes we don't drink enough alcohol that's the problem.
It actually is because it's not the alcohol but the social aspect of its consumption. So yes
Can't afford to go out and drink anymore its too mf expensive
It seems that at some point it became acceptable to spend 6+ hours a day on Tiktok, YouTube, Instagram, etc, and nobody (my age (20), at least) looks down upon it, because they all do it. I think it's just a widespread lack of self-discipline. I know a considerable number of people--disproportionately women, who complain of having 'no friends' and sit on TikTok during all of their free time to deal with it. This provides just enough distraction to stop people from seeking real social relationships but leaves a large gap unaddressed, similar to the effects of watching p*rn on the dating prospects of young men. Put simply, get rid of tiktok and Instagram reels, and you'll be forced to pursue more meaningful and rewarding things. Many of us like to use the excuse that we get useful information from social media. But in many cases, we can only process so much in one day, and most of it is flat-out bullshit used to justify the comfort that comes from seeing what we want when we want.
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