MF Associate Next Step Decision
Fortunate to have gotten into H/S for my MBApost MF associate program. However, I’m starting to get cold feet given the state of the market (won’t know if I can come back until second year, and even then don’t think it want to).
I also recently got an offer to lateral to a solid UMM shop as a senior associate with (presumably) clear path to VP.
I’m excited about b school and feels hard to turn down given the difficulty of getting in from PEthese days, but I’m scared about finding a job coming out.
What would you do between the two options? Comment why
Do you actually like PE? Do you see yourself staying in the industry long term? How certain are you that you could make VP at the other shop? How much do you like the strategy of the other shop/ the culture etc?
I like PE and hope to stay in the industry post b school. Obviously nothing is a given but good prospects for VP
The opportunity cost of getting an MBA is $1M between lost salary, tuition, living expenses and your absolute best case outcome is getting the same UMM role you currently have.
If you’re burned out and need a break, you’re better off doing a portco role for 1 year.
Why would you count living expenses it’s not like you stop living ? You actually save money bc Boston Philly Stanford are cheaper than nyc. The travel cost can’t count because that’s actual utility you’re generating by consuming leisure
Of those cities, only Philly is materially cheaper. Either way it doesn’t change the math that materially - the financial opportunity cost is still massive.
There is significant non-monetary value of traveling, partying, hooking up with chicks (or finding a GF), and making new friends for 2 years though. Especially before going into a demanding career long-term or having a family, where you will never get 2 years off again.
you're assuming OP has strong rizz game
You don’t need to be in bschool to do any of those things.
Bschool does facilitate travel, but the rest of those things you need to remember who your classmates are. They’re largely type-A, academic, prestige oriented hardos. Getting into HSW doesn’t magically make you cool, fun, or a happy person. Ask yourself how fun it would be to party with the biggest hardos in your undergrad finance club and ask yourself how attractive those people are as dating prospects.
It’s also an extremely stressful 2 year break because you basically need to be recruiting from day 1 when you arrive on campus and your second year is dominated by the job search, even if it is punctuated by brief memorable trips. It’s not a repeat of undergrad.
What is the fund size of the Umm offer? 5Bn plus? If so, take it without hesitation.
Careful with lateral moves in PE at the Associate / Senior Associate level. You could really get screwed if you’re coming in at a pre-MBA level
What do you mean?
They over promise ability to move up during your interview then you get shafted come review / promo talk a year later
I've spent a lot of time thinking about this question recently. At this point, career outcomes (similar background) reside within a probability distribution that's largely de-risked from compensation perspective. The skillset learned at IB / MBB + MF PE provides adequate saftey cushion to be more exploratory whether pursuing MBA, stepping into operating role, founding start-up, or trying different investment strategy
If fully set on staying in PE: I think the best course of action is to lateral at UMM firm. The additional deal reps and political capital accured by working will be immensely beneficial (with point #2 most important). Inversely, I've seen several instances of HBS / GSB canidates coming from MF world and struggling to get back into a comparable PE seat for a multitude of reasons:
Do I want to make this PE choice? I'm exceedingly pessemistic of PE as an asset class for many reasons frequently discussed on WSO. I'd pick business school to "buy" more time to decide on career options:
It increasingly feels like the headwinds facing PE asset class today make this no longer a "no-brainer" decision, and PE is like HFs from 2008-2025 experiencing gradual industry decline.
Easy choice for me personally to lateral - just don't see how the opportunity cost is worth it otherwise especially with the value of an MBA declining over time and you already have the MF branding, and as you said the current job market leaves a bit to be desired. Caveat would be things like you really want that 2 year vacation and don't care about the $, you're single and think that'll be the best way to find a partner, etc.
Finding a partner in bschool is increasingly difficult and rare given the average age of student is increasing. A lot of students have relationships / marriages coming into school. I think you’d be better off taking your tuition and spending it on social activities if your goal is to find a life partner.
Good points, had been thinking more from a time and ability to date perspective + pre-screening a bit on career ambitions / intelligence to whatever degree that helps. Never went to B school so can't really say, but some friends who did go thought of it from that angle at least.
Yeah also unless you’re chopped/short you can do a lot better than the broads who are so beat they have to go to bschool instead of pilates
Also different for guys vs girls. Lots of the women I know who went to/are going to B-school are more focused on finding a partner than the guys. Likely has to do with age since by the time you leave B-school you're nearly 30
Not sure I have a ton of value-add beyond the previous replies but just wanted to say that you're not alone in this situation. The same decision has been ravaging my brain for months now as well as others in similar spots.
Ultimately, this is a deeply personal choice and it factors in many dimensions of your life given the high opportunity cost, networking ROI, etc. In my particular case, I think H/S/W would be worth it purely for the network but the unknown career outcome still bothers me a lot... Based on my research, the # of UMM seats reserved for MBA candidates is fairly limited even for previous MF'ers. Take that as you may!
Remember that the majority of your class won’t go into PE or finance broadly. The value of that network is getting smaller every year as the class mix shifts away from traditional finance backgrounds.
You honestly might meet more relevant people staying in the industry working / doing deals than you would sitting in a class with a bunch of ex MBB / marketing people whose greatest aspiration is to start a search fund or “go into VC” without knowing what that job actually is. Maybe the top 5-10% are actually truely remarkable people, the rest are just people who are from rich families or good at school lol
Fair point. I think some value in having friends / connections in industry, especially if it's aligned to your sector, although that alone is not a reason for $1M opp. cost and tentative career prospects. On a softer note, if you value high-quality community that might make the difference.
One more thought for OP. Assuming you go to MBA, your current offer in hand is likely in top decile of PE outcomes, most MBA exits are factually to MM. If you reject your offer, you will have to go through the gamut of OCR to earn that same spot.
Seems like you should study how much room there will be at VP at the UMM and what the historical path of promotion is like at the firm (internal vs outsider)
Recent h/s mba graduate here. There’s still a number of recent graduates with pre mba pe experience (both mm and mf) who weren’t able to find pe roles until they graduated (or even after). Id argue that the positive signaling effect of a prestigious mba just isn’t as strong anymore (even though some investment management jobs are still only available for certain mba hsw programs)
Take the offer and don’t look back
Isn’t it normal to take “until you graduate” to find a role? Most midlevel positions are just-in-time?
And to add to that - for better or worse I think the "positive signaling effect of a prestigious MBA" may even be disappearing - the strongest associates in my class got direct promotes or went to hedge funds. In fact, it was the least serious ones who went the MBA route. Obviously, that's a gross generalization, but if I were a firm that could hire an asso with a strong work ethic who wants to lateral to advance vs someone who's been out of the game for two years it's a pretty easy decision. Business school has also gotten oddly feminized (I don't mean this in a negative way, just purely observation) as classes have gotten more female and the student bodies have gotten more politically correct, where all my friends in MBAs seem to be talking about community all the time, everyone hyping everyone else up, lots of silly virtue-signaling club activities which is very different culturally from the type of person who is successful at PE (strong work ethic, individualistic, ambitious, low BS tolerance, results-oriented).
Agreed. I think where there is still strong signaling value for an MBA is in VC, especially GSB, but even then it's not as important as it was in the past. Similar to how you used to need an MBA to go from IB Analyst to Associate, you no longer need an MBA to go from PE Associate to VP/Sr. Associate, so it's difficult to justify purely based on career value, unless you're planning to pivot to a different industry
Having your cake and eating it too: friend of mine from the MBB I was at got an offer for Apax. She also got HBS at the same time. Decided to do HBS and spoke to Apax who held her spot. It's was pre-drought we're having now though.
So worth double checking imho.
As someone that chose the latter (forgoing business school) it’s one of my biggest regrets and you really can get screwed from a career advancement standpoint. If it works, great, but you really want to protect the downside.
Say the decision needed to be made in 2021-2022 at the height of the pandemic deal making bubble (or any other time when firms just need bodies) and your time to get promoted to VP ended up being in 2023-2024. If you get the boot from your current firm and it’s extremely hard to sell your story even if “markets were tough.” The reality of recruiting is that no one wants someone that couldn’t hack it in their current job, no matter the circumstances. It’s the same reason why you as a candidate looks 100% more attractive if you have an offer on hand.
In that situation, you may be a little better off from a financial standpoint, but if you need to leave the industry or you end up just burning out after 2 years of IB + 4 years of straight grinding in PE, the b school route may have longer term benefits.
In the b school decision, you have no idea what the market will look like but you buy yourself longer runway. Even if you don’t have a job at the end of your 2nd year, you have an easy story to tell b/c you could say you were exploring different career paths and people generally give benefit of doubt to MBA students. You also have multiple shots on goal with the added brand value of H/S to go for other jobs. I know people shit on MBAs these days, but the reality of H/S is that everyone knows it and it does have real value vs. trying to hack it on your own for two years “doing deals.” There is no incremental cost of adding this, especially if you focus on finance career paths. The dollars made in early parts of your career don’t matter. Longevity matters.
This really feels like a short term vs long term decision and I hope you make the correct choice of going to b school. It’s really hard to build your reputation as a lateral at the Associate level and I know a lot of people that had to leave the industry altogether because circumstances just didn’t work out despite being fantastic candidates to move up an organization.
the ROI of a MBA is highest when you have no other career options or your employer will take you back after the MBA/pay for the MBA
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