32 Comments
 

Would you mind sharing why you're looking to make the move back to IB? I'm an IB analyst looking to transition to PE and would appreciate your perspective

 

Hours in PE can be just as bad as an associate, with more pressure than being an analyst. There’s is also a lot of unglorious portco work to be done at all times. I like it (much more strategic), but it’s certainly not for everyone. Also, significantly more difficult to be promoted. Way more competition for limited spots. Same dynamic in banking as well, but it’s less pronounced. Banking camaraderie is also much higher (partly due to less competition against your direct peers for a future at the firm).

 

If you are going back to IB, often a lot of bankers will try and discount your experience in PE. I would aim for a Senior Associate Title so probably an Assoc. 2/3. I would expect to have to do a year as an IB associate prior to any VP promotion. 

If you try to go higher than that (VP), I think you will find that you are facing a big uphill battle. but that is just my two cents. 

 

I think that is fair. Depending on the bank, they may struggle giving you more as it could invalidate their own process (i.e 3 year analyst, and 3 year associate programs means someone with 4 YOE is a Assoc. 2 in the program). I think PE experience, is the equal to but not necessarily greater than a banking experience, when moving back to banking. (1) My first comment was to more so say that you should probably not take a Associate 1 level as you should have good reps under your belt. (2) 

(1) Personally, I think PE experience is great and if you have interest in investing or capital allocation, you should try and pursue it, but if you leave PE, I would not expect everyone to value it the same on a work experience basis. 

(2) This assumes the bank you are interviewing at is a 2 year program.

 
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Few reasons and anyone who has been through any kind of MM shop in particular likely sympathizes here.

  1. Fundraising: People lie, numbers don't - if you are the nth thousandth MM fund doing basic, undifferentiated services or industrials businesses, you likely haven't fared well in the post-ZIRP environment and the era of free money from churning dividend recaps and begging God for multiple expansion are gone... this makes actual investing much more difficult when you need true operational expertise to improve your portcos.
  2. Promotion: As an analyst in banking I despised the politics that came w/ IB and thought PE would be a bit slightly better (w/o much reason) - I was wrong and it was even worse + PE has what I call the "carry traffic" problem - simply put, even if you are a PE god as an ASO, it doesn't even matter b/c the line for carry is massive and coupling that w/ bad performance means you have a low chance of seeing the little carry your MM fund would get if it even beats their hurdle rate. Check the PEI stats - DPI isn't looking good for most and this goes for any of the non-MF funds and even some MF funds like H&F.
  3. IB is Arguably "Easier": Once you've done PE, IB from the outside in looks more understandable and you "get it" way better - you know what priorities actually matter, you come back with the "investor lens" (seems like a joke but it's legit) to understand businesses better, etc. you just have a better understanding of the investment life cycle in general and you're way more technical than your peers.
  4. Stability: In IB, if you have a pulse, you get the A2A promote and looking back at when I was an analyst it was flabbergasting how lazy so many associates were... if you just care 10% more than the average ASO in banking, you'll do well. Beyond that, once you're an ASO 3/4 and def when you hit VP, you get the privilege of being more strategic + protected by bureaucracy + army of analysts under you to help... it's pretty sweet when put into perspective.
  5. Higher Pay: Coupled w/ the above, you also just get paid more - objectively IBs pay more in base and while cyclical, you NEVER have to worry about performance... PE is stressful b/c you literally can't control if your portcos suck and many of them def will... in IB you make the fee regardless of whether the deal sells for a lot or a little (higher / lower fee, but still a fee!) and if it goes bankrupt then you can get an RX mandate! No way around that compared to hitting your hurdle rate

There's more reasons but those come to mind. Once you get past the groupthink of the buyside being everything you realize that IB, if you find a team of people you actually like + solid pipeline is amazing. Of course, if you go to GS or EVR you will want to die, but there are firms that balance things well.

 

Why go back to IB vs doing something else though? I get why PE is not that great, but do you really want to destroy your life for the next 10+yrs to get to MD and still be working 60hr weeks after that?

 

I know plenty of people that have done their PE associate stints, hated it and went back into IB and liked it much more. If anything, the stint on the buyside and professional experience / maturity allows you to recruit for the type of bank you actually want to work at - some only wanted to do M&A, others went to private capital advisory, some wanted to change industries, wanted to look for lifestyle groups, etc. 

 

I was in your shoes (similar fund size) and was recruiting for Associate 1 at a few EB/BB platforms but some pushed back asking for 6–9 month "trial" analyst before the AS promotion. One thing is that this was in the UK.

Ultimately ended up doing IB > PE > MBA > IB (also because I used it to relocate to the U.S.)

 

Made the same move. Didn't really believe in carry. Progression is also less clear in PE. Cash comp is way higher in IB

In hindsight, should've just sticked with IB all the way

 

The SMD at my last company straight up told me that carry isn't really a thing during my interview. All it takes is for one deal to go to zero to lose everything. Even if your fund is in the money, you need to deal with mandatory coinvest and fund life extensions. You won't see real money until your late 30s.

Also, when you join a fund, you don't know what shit they're dealing with. They'll lie straight up to your face and say their performance is excellent while simultaneously giving back assets to the bank.

 

BuySideIntern

The SMD at my last company straight up told me that carry isn't really a thing during my interview. All it takes is for one deal to go to zero to lose everything. Even if your fund is in the money, you need to deal with mandatory coinvest and fund life extensions. You won't see real money until your late 30s.

Also, when you join a fund, you don't know what shit they're dealing with. They'll lie straight up to your face and say their performance is excellent while simultaneously giving back assets to the bank.

Yup, I've seen people in VP/Principal level going back to IBD also. Carry is real if you joined 15+ years ago. In this current cycle? Most of the returns I've been seeing are coming out of continuation funds = carry rolled over... Unless I want to grind until I'm 50 years old (which I don't) - IBD is better I think.

 

Any folks that went A2A in IB, did PE and then returned to IB? I would have 2 years as IB analyst +  1.5 years as IB associate + 2 years as PE associate. Would I return to IB as As2/As3 or could I aim for VP1? 

 

VP1 is going to be hard.

I had 1.5y IB + 2y MM PE, and only Moelis was willing to offer Associate. The others wanted me to do 6–12 months as an Analyst.

May be different if you're coming back from UMM/MF, though.

 

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