Hello everyone - I currently work for a MM PE fund in NYC. Long and complicated story as to how I got here, but I am an Analyst in my second year and for various reasons I am looking to go back to Europe (from Germany here).
I was hoping to get some input from you all in terms of the following:
- PE Recruiting in Europe
- PE Funds to recommend (E.g. comp / carry / learning curve)
- What comp to expect?
- Work / Life Balance as compared to NYC
Appreciate I am asking a lot - so an answer on either is appreciated.
Best,
This is what I know:
Main headhunters: KEA, Blackwood, Cornell.. and then PER, Dartmouth Partners, Albert Cliff, Walker Hamill. Contact them on their websites and they will reach out for phone calls. Recruiting seems to happen at end-of-program marks and on as-needed basis (when vacancies arise) rather than in a super structured fashion like in the US. Since you are from Germany, the move should be pretty doable. I have seen several cases of MM > MM, UMM, MF lateral moves in Europe; just less dogmatic a market. I think US PE experience is well respected and regarded, and you will have a story about going back home. Big concern will be lack of European business knowledge but at least you have a local growing up perspective.
Firms: CVC and EQT are the biggest players, closely followed by Permira (older than EQT but smaller flagship today) and Cinven. Advent was originally a European fund only and remains a big European player. Carlyle (Akzo Nobel ~$10bn) , KKR (Unilever spreads ~$8bn) also have large separate Europe vehicles. Other firms of note: Ardian, Bridgepoint, PAI, Hg, BC, Triton. CVC is the OG shop - can't go wrong there. EQT just went public so increasingly becoming a force. Permira has shifted focus to the US somewhat, with the biggest deals happening in US technology. Cinven just did Thyssenkrupp with Advent, and has been in every major European auction reported publicly, so probably a firm to watch on its way to become EQT/CVC in Europe.
Triton is a big German-speaking-focused fund. CVC, Permira (TeamViewer, big German success story), Advent, Cinven all have Frankfurt offices. EQT seems to be in Munich.
Comp perhaps ~30% lower than US peers.
W/L reportedly materially better than US. Less capitalist society.
good summary - only to add more details given I do have some GER background
Other funds to consider: Montagu (decent MM firm), 3i
Most of these firms have decent deal activities with smaller investment teams enabling to gain great exposures. pay, as mentioned, is below London but the relatively cheap life offset this. But living in Germany is in stark contrast to cosmopolitan cities such as NY or London. Language is also key, and most of these firms require to be at least fluent in German.
Hi There - I really appreciate the input a lot. I am actually definitely planning to move back to Europe now - with the current Visa situation in the US there is no future for me there anymore.
Currently still employed at a mid sized PE shop at Analyst level (would have made Associate next year). Currently at ~$160k Total Comp, with Associate going to be ~$250k.
What do you think about small funds vs. MF? What I kind of like in small growing funds is potential to grow with the firm and get more carry in newer funds. Am interviewing (coincidence) with one new PE shop in Berlin, but have no comp offer yet.
thoughts on CD&R? Exit pay performance
MM Funds: Ardian, Permira, Gimv, Eurazeo, Tikehau, L Catterton has a presence in Europe, BridgePoint, Lion Capital, Antin (infra) ... Also Canadian pension fund (CPP Investments, OMERS PE, CDPQ, PSP...)
Expect lower salary in Germany than London (but COL is significantly lower). For a data point, associates in France get EUR60-70k base in MMPE with possible carry if they started as analysts. Don't expext YoY increase in salary, except if you have an offer elsewhere and they really want to keep you.
Permira is not MM. Their fund is > Cinven's currently. CVC ($18bn), EQT ($13bn), Permira ($12bn), Cinven ($11bn).
And a lot of the Canadian pension funds only do co-investments.
Hi Zlatan, Appreciate the comment a lot. I have to be honest for $60-70k Base I wouldn't do it (unless there is super much upside on carry etc.).
Am currently at Analyst level (next yr associate) making ~$160k all in with Associate being more ~$250k all-in.
What's your opinion with Small PE funds that are growing (probably) pretty significantly in the coming years. I would think its more risky, but could be pretty rewarding in two ways. 1) You could be more part of the process and building it with the team 2) More carry and potential to move up quickly with more funds coming in.
Would be interested in opinions! Thanks a lot!
Well, salaries are much lower in Europe, especially with the current exchanges rates. As associate you could expect PS70/80k base and double with bonus and get close to your NYC salary. Also COL is slightly lower in London/Paris than NYC. PM me if you have questions
Anyone know anything about Astorg, Eurazeo and Bridgepoint? I think they’re all well known UMM European funds, but don’t know much more than that
I’d say astorg is the best performing out of the 3 the buy very niche assets and turn them into good businesses that are often sold to most UMMs shops. Eurazeo is struggling from what I hear and bridgepoint has had major successes (F1, pret) and big fails.
Top 3 Dogs are by FAR.: CVC, Advent, Cinven if you know the deals and returns they made.
Other US megafunds in Europe are very decent but just don’t come close in terms of returns for some reason (eg KKR, BX, Apollo etc).
Other fun facts: - HG is known for having a horrible culture, depending on which of the tech funds you go to (large, mid, lower)
BC Partners is the guy that had their ‘glory days’ in 2013 but quickly lost that rep when they absolutely blew up some deals (dunmen orange, phones4U, daisy group, fitness first, pronovias). they’ve become the poster child for ‘when the musics stops..’
KKR is known amongst recruiters to ‘have a rock solid brand but lacking in returns’. I think they really turned this around with key people changes in L5Y
Bx is known to do very few, but big size mover deals. think Merlin, refinitiv etc. great for the firm, not so sure if great from a junior perspective (1 closed deal in....x years?)
APO can probably win the ‘worst culture in Europe’ award. Beating HG. high base starting pay for associates if you’re willing to sell your soul though. work itself is also hairy and not as interesting as people think looking from the outside...
Hellman&Friedman Deserves a real special shoutout. they are slightly under the radar, but have out of this world returns. they would be the ‘quiet guy who cares about nothing but great investments’. just google where their office is in London... kind of stands out and if you know, you know!
TPG and Warburg are both in the same camp of ‘we would NOT even talk to you if not for your American track record’
Bain Capital are a bunch of smart guys but their fund 4 and arguably fund 5 has really suffered like no tomorrow..group of smart people but probably needs some risk governance from chasing deals? IQ really doesn’t guarantee returns
Cinven is also great but is like the shorter and less cool brother of Advent (not in terms of fund size, but just overall institution)
Ardian has better adjacent businesses (fund of funds, infra), but you really question ‘what are you even doing in PE?’.
Permira would fall under the team of ‘A Players’ but similar to Cinven vs Advent, they are like the less attractive version of CVC
APAX really took a HIT in their reputation if you look at anything their consumer team has touched. somehow they’ve partially recovered their reputation in Europe thanks to the tech team, but also heard tough culture
on the mid / smaller end of the market, shoutout to Bridgepoint, EQT mid market fund, Vitruvian (the mini HG), Francisco Partners,
also as an anecdotal point I think the rumour of Europeans working less hard than Americans in PE is kind of nonsense if you compare averages... but of course at the extreme ends, the craziest person in America would probably ‘win’ most hours in the office. Whoever comes to Europe thinking it’s sun tanning Friday or ski trip monday is in for a big shock
This is a great response and I really appreciate it. I am currently looking at a very small brand new PE shop in Germany. I can see the advantages of that in a way that I could be part of the growth story and potentially rake in some carry and rise within the company fairly quickly if new funds are raised quickly.
But its also risky if being stuck at a no name PE shop if it is not doing well.
What are your thought? Also what are your thoughts / experiences on hiring process and comp?
Currently Analyst in NYC PE shop ~$160k all-in. Associate next year should mean ~$250k all in.
Any responses greatly appreciated!
I wouldn't bank too much on that growth story - unless its explicitly written that you will get carry, never trust them is generally good advice.
I mean the real upside here is for the founders and senior deal makers, not you. They HOPE to be able to attract good enough talent before they establish a track record / brand name. If i'm honest, the short end of the stick here is towards you.
That being said if the comp is attractive enough and you like the pedigree and culture of the people, by all means do it!
I am personally conservative so am biased to not take this risk
Super helpful, thanks a lot!
Love this comment! Funny & insightful, it confirms what I have heard previously
Thoughts on CD&R? Pay exit performance (Europe)
Anyone have thoughts on Infra PE in Europe? Similar position as OP, am a German analyst at NYC BB looking to make the jump back, London or Frankfurt.
First, good luck - weird times atm.
Big Infra PE in Europe would be GIP (office in London), but based in NYC. They did a few interesting deals with London Gatwick airport and a few big off-shore wind deals. Did not follow them lately, so not sure.
Pretty big funds in the US, but less well knows I would say. Absolute sweatshop from what I heard, decent pay.
Thank you - good luck to you too. Yes GIP is obviously a huge name, good to hear they're active in Europe too. During your research so far, have you seen many people make the jump from NYC to EU at the analyst / associate level? Whether Infra or Corporate PE.
Also, anyone know what comp looks like in London for Infra PE in Europe as well? I imagine the MFs/opportunistic funds pay in line with street, but have heard of some core/core+ paying their associates barely GBP100k. Would be quite the pay cut from NYC IB...
Why make the jump back?
If you are a native German speaker and have the citizenship, there is not much besides potential logistics that stands in your way? With corona now, even that is no problem. Buddy of mine got his non-infra MF offer without ever visiting the office.
Visa and lifestyle. Mostly thinking about London (not ready to go back to Germany yet)
From what I’ve gathered most funds in Europe expect more experience coming in than in NY. Do you think recruiting as an A2 is feasible? Also not trying to take a 40% paycut.
I've never heard of any headhunter with a CVC mandate in London; does anyone know who do they usually go though by any chance?
Thanks!
No idea about London. CVC Europe offices tend to work with boutiques, for example a CVC strat opps Brussels/Benelux role (Investment Executive/Director) with European wide coverage was shopped by Nordbridge Group who have relatively few mandates and only have a couple recruiters in their employ.
Haven't seen IK Investment Partners being mentioned here once.
Are they not as good as the others, or what's the deal?
Decent LMM shop - Waterland, Inflexion, Livingbridge, Argos Wityu, Aurelius, EMK, DB Capital, Exponent, Equistone, Ergon, Levine Leichtman, Gilde Buyout, A&M Capital, Ares, etc. all not mentioned. Also long-hold funds (CVC, EQT, Core Equity, Castik Capital) got no mention.
The long row of European Mid Market players has a huge variability in culture, comp, performance, etc.
any insight on comp / culture at inflexion, livingbridge, aurelius, exponent and marlin by any chance? particularly interested on the operating side.
Anyone knows much about Nordic Capital? They seem to be big in Europe (€6bn last fund) and I have heard good things about the culture there.
Hmm depends on who you work with. Heard the London team is small and stuck up but Nordics offices have great culture and deals. Hearsay from advisor side this is. Met a senior guy from there and he was very sharp. Good traction with LP's through several strong exits.
Great experience especially for HC-focused PE. Have done a number of spec pharma plays (ridiculously difficult strategy - happy to dive deeper here) along with more tech-enabled HC plays. Within HC, they are incredibly well-regarded.
What about Lone Star ? What's their reputation / culture like in Europe?
bump, keen to hear rep of EMK Capital and Trilantic
Follow-Up on this. Happy to hear about EMK and Trilantic!
Any views on Rhone?
Supposed to be absolutely horrible
Can you elaborate? I heard culture is changing vs the past; but any insights on performances, perception from the market, type of job?
Any insights on Partners Group in Europe?
Any thoughts on Silver Lake?
Bump
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