So, what are the thoughts on attending business school for those who have legitimately achieved high levels of success?
I'm not talking about someone who landed a nice job at a top PE firm and became an associate. I'm talking about someone who is, say, in his or her early 30s and makes, say, low 7 figures or high 6 figures a year and has a seat on a medium sized business' board of directors.
Would there be any benefit to a move like this? Say, going to HBS and then being able to access the HBS alumni base. Or having Stanford or Wharton on your "resume" to sell yourself more effectively to big time individual or institutional investors so that you can take the next step (the difference in owning a small community bank and a major regional retail bank). Or legitimizing someone's resume for political aspirations or going to a top school so that this person has access to potential campaign contributors.
I guess the fundamental question is, would there be tangible benefits for already very successful 30-somethings to attend a top 10 business school?
Going to biz school in your early 30s also means that your might be in your mid 30s when you graduate. Since I believe that the greatest value in a MBA is the network, I honestly don't think someone with a profile like what you've just described needs to attend a top 10. An executive MBA may be more suitable I think?????
Anyway it's a personal choice. I think if someone truly achieves "success" like what you said, a MBA even from Harvard may be redundant!
Ah yes. I had forgotten about the executive MBA. Good reminder there.
so i guess this means you and your business partner took the offer?
I'd say the only discernible benefit would be brand.
BSchool networks can be valuable, but generally more for classmates than alumni. In my experience, people feel a much stronger attachment to their ugrad than bschool. In this guy's case, it would be 5-10 years before his classmates would be able to help him.
Even when looking at the branding angle, it assumes he went to a poor college. Even then, the benefit of taking 2 years for HBS/GSB over Wharton's EMBA is not enough to justify the opportunity cost.
Congrats on your venture. You started a bank?
While I wouldn't consider myself a "hyper success" or "very successful" your description is almost exactly where I'm at in life right now and echoes some of my own questions. I actually looked at the Wharton EMBA, but thought it might have been a waste and I'm not terribly impressed with school branding. Plus, I have more important family obligations that I'm not willing to much of a sacrifice for. So I decided to just read through their curriculum.
Here's been part of my road: join YPO (Young President's Organization) if you can. It's vastly more elite than HBS, except for the middle-managers who squeak in, and obviously, a better network. Join a golf club. A high six-figure salary won't be enough to get into for RTJ in Gainsville if you are in VA, but a place like that is about as elite as it gets in that area. I'm only at the third most elite course in my area and it's fun and a great place to meet like-minded professionals.
Besides, once you start hanging out with the business owner crowds at places like YPO and nice golf clubs--unless you live in the NE, you won't find that school branding is super respected, if only for the fact that many successful business owners did not go to those schools. What's more respected are the private elementary schools you send your children to. The only people who really care about schools seem to be the guys in entry-level finance (i.e. Analysts, Associates, VP's) barely scrapping by, since that's all they've got.
These are some interesting thoughts. Kind of confirmed what I was thinking about regular top 10 MBA programs. Might be some discernible benefit of an EMBA, but those "next level" contacts can be made in other places.
Yeah, I took the offer and am back in Virginia as of December. However, this question wasn't really specific to "me"--more, I suppose, out of curiosity. Although now I want to figure out a way of getting into RTJ. You shouldn't ruin people's weekend like that!
If someone is in his late 20's/early 30's and making that kind of money, the only b-schools they should even consider going to are HBS and Stanford. The opportunity cost would be huge, so you would be going for the name brand (assuming he did not go to an elite college), network (people underestimate the power of network, especially with HBS), and the overall social experience. Plus HBS and Stanford gives you access to opportunities that are not readily available elsewhere.
An executive mba is a waste unless you want to stay at your firm, and they're willing to pay for it. I also don't think the network is that strong, at least in comparison to an elite regular full-time mba.
Just an anecdote. There's a guy in my friend's first-year class at HBS who was a hedge fund rockstar before school, making about 8-figures in his last year before HBS. His reasoning for going to school was that he wanted access to a network consisting of the future business leaders of the world, something that he thinks is invaluable. He was also burned out from working and wanted two years to do whatever he wanted socially.
After you do go to B-school what are you going to do with your life you wont have much to talk about anymore...Better question what if you don't get in?
Business school is waste of money if you are already a millionaire. Think about it, how many MBA graduates come out making 700K+ after their first year?
Given that the point of B-school is to become hyper successful, it would be a total waste of time and money to go to a top ten full-time MBA program if you are already hyper successful. The network would be useless since you wouldnt even need a top ten B-school network and the opp cost would be far greater than the average B-school student's.
The utility of the network diminishes as you get more and more successful because eventually people will want to network with you more than you would want to network with them, given that your success would presumably exceed that of most HBS/SGSB grads.
I agree with this somewhat, to the extent that this person may not have as much to gain immediately from the network. After all, virtually no one from hbs/stanford will come out making $700K+ their first year out. But if you want to expand the breadth of your professional and social network, i think those schools are a great bet. At a place like HBS, which has 900+ students per class, your classmates will become leaders in finance, fortune 500 companies, corporate strategy, startups, media, entertainment, politics, the list goes on. Many of them will go back to their home countries and assume positions of great influence. I think having such a network can be quite invaluable. Sure, it's great to make lots of money, but if you're stuck in virginia, and your network consists mostly of people in your industry and/or region, that gets boring and stale.
You assume that the network is some kind of magical fairy pixie dust that rubs off on alums from the same school...
"Oh, you went to Harvard as well? Lets bask in the warmth of our collective snobiness!"
^^ I can assure you that that's not networking. And its not worth over $200K.
For some reason, WSO wont let me edit my original comments...
I wanted to add that:
Given that the point of B-school is to become hyper successful, it would be a total waste of time and money to go to a top ten full-time MBA program if you are already hyper successful. The network would be useless since you wouldnt even need a top ten B-school network and the opp cost would be far greater than the average B-school student's.
The utility of the network diminishes as you get more and more successful because eventually people will want to network with you more than you would want to network with them, given that your success would presumably exceed that of most HBS/SGSB grads.
Also, B-schools should reject hyper successful candidates because they wouldnt gain as much from an MBA. Why give a spot to someone already successful when you could give that spot to someone who would gain so much more? Hyper successful people would be more valuable as professors rather than B-school students, in my opinion.
On a side note - I would have to say that people who are already much more successful than the avg top ten B-school grad and do go to a top ten B-school need to reevaluate their motivations. People like that are motivated more by prestige than anything else.
If I won the lottery tomorrow and instantly had the financial resources of one of these hyper successful types, I would go to Bschool for funsies.
Im not sure helping to run a bank, assuming this is something you love, and making close to a $million a year in a great place like Virginia is something that will get stale. Theres something to be said for having a close group of friends and business men in an area you know that you can trust. I am not against the idea of going to a great bschoool at any point in life, but I think it is a personal choice. When you have that much money, you should do things for enjoyment and because you are driven to something, not because you might make an extra $5million over your life time.
First, Congrats on taking the offer. Hopefully you end up enjoying your time back in Virginia.
I would only consider going to B-School if you were actually looking to change careers for some reason.
I'm not a huge Tim Ferris fan, but he tells people to take $100k and invest in a few startups instead of going to b-school. This way you can keep working (and making $) and you'll get more real world experience than an mba. I don't think this would work for analysts/associates or other mid-level employees, but for someone like you this could make a lot of sense.
I cannot imagine someone in your position forgoing their income and paying $100k+ just to network. I'd keep working and follow Mr. Douche's advice. Personally, I would also get involved in charity and some of the more high-profile startup groups as well, but that's just my interest.
Was there any point to this thread other than to remind people of your (unverifiable) job and income?
I am with RE Cap here, if you need to spend a few hundred grand in tuition and opportunity costs to to socialize, travel, meet friends and build a network you should reevaluate your life. I am currently in the situation that the OP is discussing (although success is subjective) and the only reason I would consider going to business school at this point (and I would only go to HBS, Wharton, possibly Columbia due to location or a part-time/EMBA in and around NYC) would be for the following:
1) Most of us have no clue what we want to do with our lives while in college and do not take advantage of the resources available to us. I would take b-school classes that are intellectually stimulating and professionally relevant. Learning new things is appealing to me but again this can be done outside of the confines of b-school.
2) Expand my network. I already have a pretty expansive network having worked in the same industry for the past several years but could benefit from the brand and network associated with the aforementioned schools. Again, this probably is not reason enough for me to go to b-school.
3) Solidify and expand business acumen - everything that you learn in b-school can be learned by going to the library after work for a year or two. I am not sure that the lectures or group work warrants the opportunity cost of attending b-school.
4) Re-branding - Going to HBS would open a lot of doors for me but these doors would likely be to places that I am not necessarily interested in working at (i.e. BX, KKR, GS, Bain, etc.). While I realize that comment is likely blasphemous to many on this site but my biggest fear is spending the next 40 years of my life working in a highly structured corporate environment full of assholes. I would much rather take the money that I have earned and do something more entrepreneurial in nature whether it be in finance or elsewhere.
Sorry for the long post as this is more of a self-reflection than anything else as I continue to contemplate whether or not to apply Round 2.
How much money would you need to make by age 30 to completely rule out going to b-school? 5, 10, 50?
It would have to be north of $25mm, liquid. I would need to be able to live very, very comfortably on what I already earned else I would feel compelled to try and invest it and that would mean I either need to know or understand the investment process well enough to feel comfortable doing those investments or I would need to understand how to purchase and potentially run a business...which might be one way I would stay engaged in the 'real life' if I had a bunch of money.
Regards
It seems like VT4Ever is trying to justify not being able to go to MBA for couple of years now (he starts similar threads every few months). Regardless of your success level, it will be impossible for your to go to Harvard with your GPA/profile anyway, so not something worth worrying.
One word: No.
Wait a sec. You're trying to say you started a little community bank and are making a million bucks a year? Lol what a fucking joke. Even if, miraculously, you were some how able to grow it to a billion in assets in like the 10 years you've been out of school you might be making 500k a year including a bonus, but FDIC would never let you get away with a million bucks a year you stupid jack ass. not to mention since you're such a stupid shit you would have been balls deep in subprime dog shit and would have lost all your bum ass depositors money
Sir are you mad?
I JUST SAW THUNDERDOME 6761'S RANT.... BLACK FINANCIER, YOU SAID IT, I JUST HAD TO SUPPORT YOU: YEP THUNDERDOME! "YOU CRAZY!" (NOT A QUESTION)
As I've already stated in this thread THIS POST IS NOT ABOUT ME. I was curious. I don't make $1 million per year. I was just curious. Before going postal on someone it's probably a good idea that you follow the thread progression. It might save yourself from looking like a total ass.
Let me reiterate the point--this thread is not about me. And I'm not in my early 30s. I'm in my mid-20s.
Remember who the demographic is here....that is the main issue.
That's the Lord's truth.
I just used an example from my own context (banking and politics) because that's what I know. If I worked in municipal finance or in commodities I would have used that as an example.
Assuming that the definition of "hyper-success" means complete financial independence, I would guess the only reason why one would go to b-school is because they have nothing better to do at the moment.
This thread is boringly circular. The man already said he is not writing about himself. Even so, why the hell would you go back to B-school if you're making that kind of money at such a young age. Whatever you're doing is obviously working much better than any skill you would pick up from any top B-school. In fact, if you keep doing what you're doing you should probably be able to retire in the 10 years and teach at one of the top B-schools.
I know someone who went to HBS in their early 40s with a fortune of 250m+. He did because it was his dream to go to HBS all his life but family and work got in the way. He got to achieve his dream by doing an eMBA. When you achieve ultra success you can do almost anything you have ever dreamed of, even if one of those dreams is to go to Harvard.
Doesn't make a whole lot of sense if you ask me.
1- That MBA will cost you well over $2 million. 2- What is the benefit of the MBA? 3- Most top MBA programs won't have you at that ageAlso, when you say hyper success isn't landing a top PE gig but is rather being in your early 30's, making $1M a year and being on the board of a decent-sized company... that is precisely what someone who landed in PE is doing several years out. They are in their early 30's, they sit on the board of atleast one company and they are making $1M+ a year... and here's where it matters for you, they've got an MBA, they got it in their mid- to late-20's
Sounds like your motivation for getting an MBA is so you can finally change your name to HBS4ever or Wharton4ever. That non-brand name canker sore that just won't go away.
Marcus, for the last fcking time, THIS QUESTION IS NOT ABOUT ME. I'm 26 years old and don't make anything close to $1 million! Jesus fcking Christ. I've never seen so much jealousy emanate from people. For my sake thank God that I really don't make $1 million per year. If I did I'd be getting some serious hate from people in the real world.
What does advising someone not spend $2 million to get a cover-up tattoo have to do with being jealous?
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