Is business school a new start?
I'm an undergrad, wanting to get into IBD. For some reason I end up doing something like PWM or something outside of banking (but in finance), does going to graduate school give me a new start? Lets say Columbia or NYU. Or do you usually have to be an analyst prior to grad school to be recruited in IBD? Anyone have any experience about what I'm talking about?
In my own personal experience, to join as an associate, you need substantial industry experience, either in business analysis (not in Tech, but BA in Oil and Gas for example) or some functions that give you an overview of business. It doesn't make much sense for Wall Street banks to recruit MBAs if they don't bring their industry or country experience. There are so many undergrads straight out of uni with a few relevant internships under their belt who are willing to work longer hours for much less. They can do just as good. Why not do PWM for a few years and see where that takes you? You can get good exposure to technical sides of finance such as derivative or portfolio management should you wish to continue in PWM. And in PWM, you get to travel!
Are you thinking about pre-experience Master's in Finance? I think those would work only if you studied something completely different as an undergrad (Literature for example), if you wanted to go into capital markets (so the mathematics actually matters), if you did your undergrad at a remote non-target school (by the Wall Street standards) or if you wanted to go into specialist functions or consulting (I always see these BCG or McKinsey consultants with a lot of qualifications from target universities).
I am definitely going to work at least 3-5 years before I start looking at masters programs. However, if that work happens to be PWM, does that restrict me from working in IBD post-MBA? I'm doing a PWM internship this summer, going into my junior year. From reading posts on here, it seems a PWM internship during your sophomore summer isn't that helpful for getting a IBD internship. Hopefully I won't have to worry about it, and I get a IBD job out of college.
Hi, I can't tell you. What kind of PWM do you do or did you do? Is it more AM focused (as in portfolio management and stock/bond/etc selection)? Is it more focused on signing up clients - your job is simply ask clients prepared questions and fill out a form with their answers?
As a student at an M7, I disagree with this. The folks who have gone into, and are recruiting for, Associate positions at BBs do not have "substantial industry experience." In fact, it's common knowledge that IBD (along with consulting) is one of the most friendly to career switchers.
By "In my own experience" I'm assuming you mean, "by reading internet forums since I've never gone to business school" because this couldn't be further from the truth. Being at an M7 school I don't know a single person in the IB club or recruiting for IB who was in the industry beforehand. Everybody is a career switcher and most of them a fairly dramatic career change.
Hi, the industry means industries (outside the banking).
Most of the people I see going into IBD as Associates out of B-School (including many of my classmates) are career switchers. Some did IT, corporate finance, Engineering, etc prior to B-school. Think about it: you'd have to be a glutton for punishment to do an Analyst stint, then go to B-school, only to go back in as an Associate. Much easier to do an Analyst to Associate promote than to take 2 yrs and 200k to make the same transition.
Get the best job you can now. Go to a top MBA program, read the right books, take the right courses, network your tail off, and you'll be fine for Associate recruiting.
I can confirm the posters above. The majority of people recruiting for IBD have no relevant experience whatsoever. They also don't have experience for the specific IBD industries they are recruiting for. I'm talking Teach for America folks joining Healthcare groups kinda stuff. You have a leg-up if you worked in anything that resembles IBD before b-school (consulting or finance).
Hi, there are groups of people who major corporations tend to like, veterans or those guys you mentioned. Ex-athletes as well.
I think you guys are underestimating how hard it is to get into banking post-MBA. There are frankly not that many places. GS, JPM, etc, have 30-40 spots a year in the U.S.- all told, total BB spots are less than the people who want to do IB at Columbia. And BBs recruit from 16 or 17 schools. I don't think industry experience is mandatory but it can help. Especially for FIG, Healthcare and Energy. That said, IB summer associate recruiting is grueling. You have to network like you've never networked before. As in, at your own expense, fly/Amtrak to New York almost every Friday in the MBA1 fall and set up tons of informationals. Friends who were successful in IB recruiting set up maybe 10 to 15 informationals per bank. And you have to do this with 5-6 target banks. Technicals are important at a later stage, like late October, early November, but personality and the elusive "fit" are way more important. I think it is akin to rushing a frat. A banker at Citi told me once that if an investment banking offer was on the other side of a glass wall that I should be willing to run through that glass wall for the offer.
I don't think anyone said it was easy. We were all saying that pretty much anyone at a top 15-17 school has a legitimate shot at landing an associate gig, regardless of background. Certainly, you have to network your ass off, interview well, know your technicals. I spoke with a guy from a top 10 school who locked up an offer from GS Heathcare - his prior experience was in education.
Ha! I think I know that guy. PM me if you want to compare notes, lol. If it IS that same guy, though-he may have had an education background but he was an absolute MONSTER in his preparation and has an awesome personality. Anyone who puts in the amount of prep-work he did shouldn't have trouble securing an offer somewhere.
Which is really my point. It's not easy, per se, but if you're at a top 10-15, have a plausible story, can network, and know your stuff cold then you will get something. Now if your mentality is GS or bust or BB or bust then you'll probably miss out on some other quality opportunities.
Well I think there's a fundamental mistake people make here when they talk about "how tough it is to get into banking" and that is that they're automatically assuming OP wants to land a position at a BB straight away. In my experience boutiques and even MM banks are relatively easy to get into with an MBA provided you're willing to play the networking game (which is necessary for any banking job). And while the BB jobs are going to probably pay the best, smaller banks offer a different work environment, career progression timeline and overall experience, which might be more appealing to OP depending on his/her goals.
How many people at HSW do the "every Friday" networking trip as opposed to just going to structured info sessions?
Not sure about H or S but when I lived in NYC my friends from W would crash on my couch for their Friday visits. Not sure how practical weekly visits from S would even be, though.
People at H/S don't really do IB post-MBA. I think the finance types go straight to buyside and non-finance types are more interested in corporate strategy, consulting and marketing.
You guys are all missing the point...this guy is half way through his sophomore year of college, closer to 15 than 25, and is asking about a 'career' change via MBA.
Dude, if you want to do PWM, do PWM. If you want to do IB, you have another summer to get an internship and then the chance to get FT offer. Why are you considering career change options when you are at least 2.5 years from even starting?
The info in this thread is good, but it would be 6 - 8 years before the OP would be entering b school. In that time things could (and probably will) change dramatically.
In short, OP, stop asking ridiculous hypotheticals and figure out what you want.
Ridiculous hypotheticals posted by sophomores are like half the content on this site.
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