Associate Exits | Where are you now? Any advice?
Post-MBA associate who looks at the lives of my VPs and thinks "I don't want to be that guy"
Curious to learn from others who have left, particularly non-traditional options. What is your update?
My general criteria:
-Comp: ~200k+ (with line of sight to higher)
-Hours: <65 average (okay if up / down, but something where there is no shame in taking the family for a week long trip, I can get 3 trips to the gym in per week without stress, etc.)
I don't enjoy modeling as a core part of the job, and am relatively slow at it (though this is more of an issue in banking where time is always of the essence). I am a strong presenter, project manager, and coming up with content / framing stories, arguments, etc.
My unpolished take on the more traditional exits:
-PE: Doesn't seem worth it for the reasons I'm leaving, and likely to struggle to get a spot given age, etc. anyway
-Corp Dev: Comp seems really hard to judge, have heard quotes ranging from 135 base to 190 base, and even at manager level have seen peers say they are THE person responsible for all modeling
-Investor relations: Think I would really enjoy this, but have zero idea on comp and have heard very low, not sure if difficult to break into and what progression looks like
-Corporate banking: Am I romanticizing this? They sit on our floor and seemingly do 3/4 of the hours for 3/4 of the pay for 3/4 as interesting a gig. How hard would it be for me to move over?
-Asset management: Tough to find the right gig
-Wealth management: Boring? Too sales focused? Would I be getting stir crazy explaining basics to clients or are roles like private banker for UHNW folks different?
-Chief of staff: What do these people do?
Looking for wisdom from folks who have done this!
Have a few friends working in IR. It's a pretty cushy job, especially if you get in on a unicorn/tech company with juicy stock options. At associate level, sometimes it can be worth it to stick it out and make it to VP. It's either that or likely a corporate role.
Any insight on pay here?
Depends on company. I've seen people go to FAANG and basically make the same, while people go to established companies and have to take a pay cut. There's salary transparency for a ton of these roles nowadays, so I suggest looking there. Maybe levels.fyi has something
Bump
Bump
Has anyone had experience with biz dev / product roles at PE firms? Seems like it would be better WLB overall given it’s not an investment role but with lower comp. Don’t know too much about it / how interesting it would be
I work at a product team in a leading pe firm. Pay is surprisingly high (similar to banking cash comp) and would say the job hits all the requirements OP listed (gym, family trips, etc).
I think the role is a great place for anyone with finance experience who is sales oriented.
Are many of these roles located outside of nyc?
What are PE product teams?
Bump, would be very curious about responses.
Never seen somebody do the IB to Corp banking switch (so many clamoring for the opposite) but interested to hear if somebody has
I'm currently in corporate banking, and one of the directors on my team previously worked in IB at an EB. I once spoke with them about their transition, and they shared that one of the reasons they prefer corporate banking is because it's much more relationship-focused (Given the caveat that it is also less technical).
In corporate banking coverage, you engage with clients more frequently, as you're not just dealing with episodic products like lending and DCM but also more recurring services like treasury management and derivatives. That being said, most people, including myself, find the former products to be more interesting and engaging.
Another big component of corp banking, asides from relationship management and lending, is project management. A significant amount of time is spent coordinating product teams and internal processes to make sure things run smoothly for the clients.
^ This is how things work at my bank, experiences may vary.
Following. In the same boat and trying to figure out next steps.
I think Chief of Staff is basically just a jack of all trades type role where you are the right hand man for the CEO. Don’t think it’s very modeling intensive but still requires some Excel work.
I exited into a Chief of Staff role post-associate stint. It could be a good role in the sense you get a lot of executive face time and can move into a relatively senior role. The downside is the quality of your experience is heavily dependent on your manager - could range from owning a good chunk of decision making to being a glorified admin.
Did you seek this out or how did you get this opportunity?
Try REPE. Path to carry + 250k + cash comp at aso level and relatively chill lifestyle
How doable is this with no real estate experience?
From my friend who works at a MF, it will be an extremely uphill battle without prior RE experience. Pay will be the same as the other PE strategies, but so will hours — probably a nonstarter.
Smaller RE shops might interview kids without prior RE experience, but would still difficult considering the volume of candidates trying to break in already. Hours would be closer to what you’re looking for, but also very model-intensive.
TLDR: Probably not the path you’re looking for.
I exited to secondaries many years ago as a post mba associate. Has a pretty nice combination of what you are looking for - comp, hours and interesting work. It’s model intensive though
Are you still in the secondaries space?
How has upward mobility and pay trajectory been?
Lastly, curious if there is an exit opp from secondaries or you just stay in the space?
Yes still doing secondaries. My trajectory has been fine, promotions every few years. I make enough money to suit my lifestyle and don’t live in a HCOL city. At some point you need to stop worrying about exit opportunities and commit to a path.
Two words my friend:
Placement.
Agent.
What I was thinking too
Just go corporate banking. Easy to lateral as its a step down in prestige of role.
To transition simply ask a few senior people for coffee and get their insight into the role and I'm sure they will open doors for a transfer if they like you.
Other option is to move to one of the 100% sponsors coverage groups at a bulge bracket. Where are you based?
This day another private credit bro is born. Basically corporate banking with similar hours (except you’re not having to be your IB counterpart’s wingman your entire career), more interesting work (financing LBOs instead of undrawn revolvers, pitching on new beauty contests regularly instead of same finite set of borrowers, having the opportunity to drive terms if you work for the lead lender), and better comp (with line of sight to carry - less upside but more stable vs. PE carry). You’re welcome.
PS. Make that vacation two weeks.
How does one prepare for this?
Be hungry enough to use the search function
isn't it a lot of modeling or am I wrong?
It’s less vs. PE as you’re higher in the cap stack. Mezz/opportunistic/distressed funds will have more modeling vs. Direct lending. The more equity-like the risk, the more modeling.
Aren’t private credit hours closer to IB vs corporate banking?
If you’re in an origination role, yes but nowhere nearly as bad as IB. Underwriting roles are more like CB hours if not better.
What's the catch tho. I've been thinking about private credit but I can't think of an obvious downside and nothing in life is free
Following
Depending on your firm and coverage group, you could try to switch into ECM or DCM. Hours are more stable than coverage, and pay is relatively in line. There’s no modeling but I think it’s more interesting than corporate banking.
I worked with a Product Manager (tech company) who had a background as an IB Associate from a major bank. He would make comments about how low the hours were compared to his previous role. He was on an adjacent team to me so I didn’t get to chat with him a whole lot, but he seemed happy about his move.
Career progression is Senior Product Manager, Director of Product, VP of Product, and most people stay there. Some move up to Chief Product Officer or Chief Operating Officer from what I’ve seen on LinkedIn.
I’m a PM at a big tech company.
YOE: 7
YOE in product: 5
Title: Sr. PM
Comp (salary / equity): 205k / 100k+ ish depending on price fluctuations.
Working hours: 40-45ish. 50 hours if on-call and things break or during quarterly planning week.
I wasn’t in IB but pivoted from commercial banking and really enjoy my work. Relative to my peers from my analyst class I’m doing better comp-wise and from a work life balance perspective. I’m fully remote and my company flies me out to the office quarterly or every 2 months. The work is challenging and fun and i have no complaints. Nowadays it’s harder to break into product, mostly due to the tech boom from 2020. If you’d like to break in the path of least resistance is to go to business school and break in via internship. Second easiest is to pivot into program management for a year and then pivot into product from there.
The paths upward for product are typically: Associate PM > PM > Sr. PM. At Sr. You’re able to either stay an individual contributor and move up as Sr. > Staff PM > Principal PM > Distinguished PM. If you go management route it’s more like: Sr. > Group PM > Dir > VP > CPO.
Sr. Can be a terminal title in product if you don’t cut it for more responsibly in problem scope or if you’re not cut out for people management. I’ve seen a few folks in Sr. Titles for whole careers and it’s fine for them but they are unlikely to move up once you have 5-7+ years in that senior role.
Titles vary by company but follow somewhat similar structure. Hours don’t really change by much relative to banking, you’ll never have a 60+ hour week except during highly visible projects if you’re being looked at for promotions.
Vacations are needed. I had a coworker go to India for a month. Another of mine is on her 3rd international trip this week. Most PMs take about 4-6 weeks of vacation. 2-3 weeks at a time is common. 4-6 weeks at a time is more common for those who deliver a lot and who have a couple of years at the company already.
This sounds great, but feels unrealistic in today's environment.
I’m in a similar boat to you. Class of 2023 and I really don’t want to end up like my VPs/Ds. I am seriously thinking of taking out a business loan and buying a small business. Tons of boomers retiring and selling profitable companies.
Many of those people have succession plans though. Have two friends that have inherited most of the 'day to day' at their family businesses once the pandemic hit / parents chose to work part-time or semi-retire.
Companies were selling at premiums a few years ago. Not sure if many are willing to sell in the current market. My father is one of them. Retiring in a few years and has a business that would definitely sell for a discount vs. what a friend of his got a few years ago who runs a nearly identical business (a lot of idiot buyers in 2021).
There are still thousands of them for sale in the business broker websites. Just have to have the patience to sift through all the crap to find the ones worth it for you
Curious to know why you dont want to end up like them? What's so bad about it?
I think it depends a lot from culture to culture of each group but a few examples of things I’ve seen/heard that turn me off from the job long term.
- MD asked an ASO why he was going to his wife’s prenatal appointments and said that he had only gone to the 1st appointment of his 1st child (he has 3)
- A VP had a kid, spent less than 3 weeks on paternity leave even though he had more time. Setting a terrible precedent for the next dad
- VP with a baby at home will be at the office until past 9pm most night instead of seeing his young baby
- Kids being put into nursery at less than 6 months old because even with IB comp at VP level you can afford to keep your wife at home in HCOL areas
- Working all hours of the night and weekends even at VP/D levels
- Working during PTO, being discouraged to use all of it
- I’ve seen my health deteriorate a lot over the past year, no idea what I’d be like 3-6 years down the line
While I agree that comp will still be higher than at most other positions, but if you have even a little bit of an entrepreneurial bone in you, you’d be better off in the long run.
They aren't all bad, but you get the feeling they all started from where you did...then slowly but surely just lost sight of it all.
The kids thing is obviously huge, if you have a family you're just dreaming of this time when you've made "enough" to enjoy it / them. But the reality is you lose so much along the way. Should I be anxiety-ridden to take my family on a long-weekend trip? Will I ever that those moments back? How much can I 'defer' attention to my spouse and believe it has no long-term effect? I think people forget that other high paying jobs exist where this is not the norm.
VP+ is hardest to leave, just from a practical standpoint. You would legit be taking 50%+ pay cuts for most gigs, and you get juuuuuuust enough more control over your life that keep plugging away. If you can ride it out / put in minimal effort for a year or two then great. Harder to do in practice
Everything is a tradeoff.
Finding a good business to buy in of itself is a full-time gig
You're not going to find a good one scrolling online, is all I'm going to say
This - I don't think people realize how difficult this is to do unless you know some extremely well connected business brokers locally (and even then, they can't share any confidential information that a specific client is struggling / might bite at a low offer).
Same timeline as you. I'm c/o 2023 and figure I'll stick it out thru ASO2 bonus.... maybe ASO3.... really don't want to stick around and be a VP
Recently quit banking as an A2A (started a Q&A on my profile).
Left finance completely and now work at a startup. Won't disclose comp but all-in is similar to my associate base with equity upside.
My best advice is to be open-minded and look outside the conventional exits (corporate banking, IR, [insert other chill finance job]) and stop thinking about 'prestige'. There are so many ways to approach this. One way could be pursuing a more chill job with enough down time to start a low-cost business (something that leverages the internet, which I believe almost anyone can get set up without too much upfront capital). Honestly, the only way to obtain financial security without continuing the corporate grind is to run a business and scale it to a point that makes sense for you. Otherwise, you will forever be exchanging time for money and be stuck with the golden handcuffs.
Just some food for thought. I mean, the advent of the internet and technology has unlocked tons of wealth-generating opportunities. I don't even know if the 9-5 corporate office gig will be around anymore in the next 20 years.
Trying to grind to VP and then decide where I'm at. I don't hate banking enough to leave, the pay is great, I'm getting crushed but think you get crushed as a junior anywhere you go that's not a more 9-5 job in nature. Don't want to recruit PE and don't want to take a haircut off my experience since I'm already an aso. Probably end up at a LMM shop or something
Original plan was to do this. Now I'm not so sure. Having to miss (or be physically there but not present) for best buddy's wedding and a family trip, in addition to the health consideration makes me looking to pull plug sooner vs. later.
Also, the VP promote is by no means a guarantee at least in my group. Watched guy in class ahead bust his butt, cancel family vacation, etc. Had extremely positive reviews during his associate years. Message was "no room".
Would 100x rather spend the time finding a good exit than be shown the door then and scramble. Flip side is if I got the promote, would be that much harder to leave.
"Just one more bonus..."
Pretty soon you wake up in your mid / late 30s and wonder what happened.
Put another way, I have not spoken to a single person who left that wishes they stayed longer.
Staying is a WILD proposition but to each their own.
Not trying to persuade you on staying... but is your group really that toxic or do you not push back?
If you communicate upfront, you should never have to miss an important family event, wedding, etc. Sure you may have to respond to a couple emails on your phone during the day, wake up early to work from 6-8am before an event, or spend 10 mins on the phone if something blows up - but it should never get in the way of the actual event. I never understood this mindset. Be honest with your team that you are unavailable from xx AM to xx PM and people will respect it.
I've been in banking for a while. I missed some events in my analyst years, but then I realized it was on me. Once I started communicating upfront as an associate - I never had this problem.
That's a great point, I guess it is very group dependent. My group has so much churn it's kinda like if you survive your aso years and don't leave theres a >50% chance there's a VP spot lined up, even if you're a mid bucket aso.
That's also a great point on people "not regretting staying longer." Where did they go instead? I'm taking it day by day, but if I don't make it, there's tons of LMM shops around me that I know they have a much better WLB even at the aso level that could be a great exit from a WLB standpoint
Would strongly consider something at an endowment, large pension, or FoF platform. Believe all of the above fit from both an hours and comp perspective ++ much less emphasis on modeling. Happy to discuss more here if helpful//interesting
Hey I'm trying to go down this route as well from IB but struggling to find open positions/not sure if I'm tailoring my searches correctly via LinkedIn?
Bump
Are you looking primarily for FoF, Pensions, or Endowments? Feel like this is largely a networking game//checking company websites to find open positions as not everything is going to be on LI.
For FoF you would be looking at places like Industry, Hamilton Lane, HarborVest, True Bridge, StepStone, Pathway Capital, Partners Group, Adams Street etc. would depend on PE FoF vs VC FoF//if you are looking to just do primary investing or if you want to do secondaries/co-invests as well
For Pensions, I would say these roles are somewhat selective//very low turnover but essentially all large pension funds will have an investment division. Off the top of my head u have CPPIB, ILTRS, NY Fire, CalPERS etc
Endowments would focus on Ivy League/Large State Schools (albeit this one largely depends on what city you want to live in). Lots of Headhunters for these roles (for example DSP is big for endowments)
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