Value of non-HSW M7
Hey guys - hoping to get some advice on my situation.
I just received the last of my R1 b-school results: I was rejected from Wharton post interview and accepted to CBS with no scholarships. Did not apply to HBS or Stanford as I ran out of time and didn't feel confident that I could pull together decent apps. I was a reapplicant to both CBS and Wharton after being waitlisted last cycle.
To be honest, I'm a little disappointed with the result. I'm very grateful that I didn't end up empty handed, but I was hoping to either get into Wharton or receive some scholarship money from CBS. I felt like I was a strong applicant (329 GRE, 3.9 GPA from a top 25 undergrad, 5.5 yoe with a few promotions - mix of finance and corporate) and thought I was competitive for scholarships.
Some considerations that I have:
- School anywhere is a non-trivial opportunity cost, as I'm currently earning ~$200k in a strategy role and would be spending crazy money on NYC COL and tuition
- I kind of hate my current job, which is largely why I applied to school. I'm eager to return to some type of deal-focused role, either in blue-chip tech corp dev role or non-PE private markets role (family office, private credit, etc.)
- I worked in IB/PE briefly before moving to corporate. I have no interest in returning to client services, so I don't want an MBA for structured recruiting
- I had my heart set on Wharton and don't feel as attached to the CBS program. That said, I love being in NYC and CBS allows me to continue my current life without any upheaval. I'm NYC-based which is why I only applied to CBS and Wharton
With that context in mind, I'm thinking through a couple of options moving forward:
- Applying to a handful of schools in R2 to see if I can get scholarship money at a comparable program like MIT or Booth, which would make me feel better about the opportunity cost
- I could try to lateral in the spring to a better job (so that I can leave my stagnant role) and then reapply in 2 years if I decided that I still wanted to pursue the MBA
- Downside to this approach is that I'd be 31 at the time of starting if I push out 2 years
I do feel some urgency to go to school this year since I was already a reapplicant and am turning 29 next year, but curious to get perspective from the forum and any others that have gone down the business school path.
Following. Don’t have any concrete advice but wish you the best
I was in the same situation as you earlier this year. Given your profile, not surprised that CBS didn’t give you money as they are betting that profiles like yours would take CBS.
Wharton is kind of a black box - last year I had seen very weak profiles get in and strong profiles get rejected.
My advice would be to apply to Booth, Kellogg and Yale. Hopefully one of these give you serious money and if I were you, I would accept it. Once you are in an M7 program (or top 10 with a lot of money), the school name really doesn’t matter. The companies trust the schools have done a good funneling job and will give you a shot. In my cohort, I’ve seen a number of people say no to Harvard, Wharton and CBS to accept money at above schools.
PS - I’m currently enrolled at one of the above schools with a full ride from a couple of the above. Hope this helps.
Thanks for the perspective - I totally agree that scholarships are key, which is why I was frustrated when CBS offered me full tuition price.
I’m just really struggling to wrap my head around the out of pocket cost for CBS with zero financial aid. Their calculator estimates the total cost of attendance at $275k to $300k. Tuition aside, I'm in line for a promotion this summer, which would increase my comp to around $225k-$250k and I could comfortably save $75k-$100k a year on that salary. So when you factor in the opportunity cost, total cost of attendance is ~$500k.
I feel like HSW might be worth paying that type of price tag because of their brand and the doors they open, but I’m not confident that that the other M7 schools provide that same kind of return at full cost (unless you're recruiting for IB, which I'm not).
I was really excited about exploring new career paths / solid OCR opps / getting a bit of a break, but when I think about spending $500k to do that, it honestly makes me feel sick.
Understand all the points but differ on the point on doors opening. The vast majority of these schools will provide the platform and your resume will get the job - that’s what I have found in the latest cycle of recruitment.
Given you’ve done all the work, I recommend applying to other schools and negotiating a sizeable scholarship which eases the burden significantly, bringing out of pocket down significantly. If you take the 5-10 year view and account for network effects, the numbers would be contexualised. Wishing you the best!
Wharton is not worth full price and shouldn’t even be grouped into the same tier as H and S because there is a pretty drastic gap in employment outcomes/opportunities.
applying to YSOM when you have a CBS acceptance is just absurd advice, particularly if interested in finance.
Yale has deep pockets. In the past, schools like CBS have been open to negotiating once u have a scholarship from other T-10 schools.
They might shit on you but try posting this on r/mba as well.
That forum is overrun by self-interested MBA consultants and people who don’t even attend M7/HSW but are constantly pretending they do and fabricating posts to farm upvotes.
Not worth it if finances are a concern. Even W wouldn’t have been worth it. I am fully in the camp that paying sticker price for MBA is only worth it for Stanford and HBS. Many of my friends who graduated from Wharton, CBS etc. last May are still struggling to find jobs. Many are working part-time at startups just to have some sort of income, many also had to settle for a job they had no interest in bc their loan repayments are starting to kick in.
Something else to consider about CBS (I have two siblings who attended there): you will have a hard time connecting with your classmates if your finances limit you from going on the trips. Out of all the MBA programs, I’d argue CBS probably has the most student-let trips going on throughout the year because the you have the combination of students from wealthy families and one of the highest international student bases. Socializing/networking there is highly contingent on being able to attend the same trips as your cohort. So the actual cost of attending skyrockets when you factor that in.
Have you seen HBS's employment report recently? They are struggling even more than Wharton students.
To be fair, that's probably in part driven by less of the HBS class being interested / pursuing the traditional consulting (either new or returning / sponsored) and IB paths
I did IB before becoming a full-time admissions counselor. I'll give you my honest perspective.
First off, congrats on getting into CBS. I understand the lack of scholarship is disappointing, but getting into an M7 MBA is a serious accomplishment that puts you head and shoulders above most other people. Unfortunately, HSW is a total crapshoot, especially if you're from an overrepresented/competitive background or demographic (and in terms of professional backgrounds, finance and MBB are the most competitive).
In terms of actually going? Unless you are looking at a really traditional path (i.e., MBB or T2 consulting, which, with your background, you would likely be able to obtain), I am not sure I would recommend getting an MBA in your case. I understand that you hate your job, but I would NOT even consider paying sticker with your background, especially given that you said you don't want to do structured recruiting.
Your best bet would be to maybe expand to the T15 range and look for scholarships, as they tend to be more generous. Some clients I worked with this cycle did get 50%+ at Kellogg and/or Booth. They tend to be the most generous of the M7. T25 is even more generous, but if your goal is investor-based roles, I would only do this if it were a very specific case, like wanting to specifically work in Texas (in which case McCombs or Rice could be acceptable choices, especially the former).
In short, I think if you expand your school range a bit, you could be very competitive for 50%+ scholarships, and once you get a scholarship from one school, a lot of peer schools will increase, sometimes up to a full match.
I'm rooting for you and think you're more than capable of achieving your goals. I would just avoid getting an MBA at sticker at all costs, especially in this job market.
I'm happy to field any additional questions you might have, whether that be in this thread or via DM. Just let me know.
Hello. Quick side question. What are the odds of getting a strong scholarship to T15 with a background like this?
1. Engineering. 3.2/4 GPA. gpa low b/c I worked every weekend on my small company
. Can get 720+ GMAT.
2. ~3 years in Engineering, 4 years in Software. Not a manager, just IC.
3. 3 years of nomading and worldly experiences. Come from very humble beginnings and faced life long depression head on, very resilient.
Not sure it's worth it and could try to stick it out in tech, but I do like the idea of PE Ops, Consulting -> exit but the market is brutal atm.
GPA is going to make scholarship a little tougher, but luckily, they are a bit more forgiving with engineering majors and their GPAs. Have you already taken the GMAT? Most of my clients have found the GRE easier, but if you are strong in math, the GMAT might be better.
Is that nomad experience still under W2 employment? It's a bit harder to get in without active employment, but if you can show tangible wins with entrepreneurship, it can sometimes work out.
In terms of recruiting, it's probably best to look at consulting since it's a very structured OCR process at any T15, and then exit to PE ops after consulting. Writing PE as a goal in essays usually ends poorly for applicants unless they have PE experience pre-MBA. You're not held to the goals you describe in your essay, so I usually advise against talking about PE as a goal unless you have a very specific background. Adcoms are hesitant to admit people they don't see getting the role they discuss in their essays, and as anyone will tell you, PE (even in ops) is VERY difficult to obtain post-MBA without prior experience. In terms of consulting recruiting, they really only care about having at least a few years of work experience prior to the MBA, and are pretty agnostic when it comes to prior experience outside of that.
OP here - appreciate the advice. I ended up applying to a few more programs during R2 and am hoping to use any offers as leverage for scholarships.
Do you know if M7 programs are willing to give deferrals? That's one avenue I considered to ensure that I have optionality for the next year; in the meantime, I'd recruit for other jobs and apply to a broad set of programs R1 next year to see if other M7 programs are more generous.
It depends - HBS tends to be the most flexible for the M7 for post-admit deferrals, whereas Stanford & MIT tend to be the most strict. It's always case-by-case and usually needs to be due to life circumstances or some sort of transformative career/entrepreneurial endeavor.
Admissions are going to look a lot different next year, with far fewer international students applying. My guess is that this will make it easier for applicants with test scores as their weakness to get in, since international applicants tend to have higher test scores on average compared to the domestic applicants.
Older thread but helpful comment. Curious how you think about the threshold to leave a job for an MBA (lets only consider HSW for the sake of this argument) in the current economy if someone wants to get in a structured recruiting pipeline (for an investing seat)? Is the structured pipeline worth the cost?
I've been considering it, but struggling to even get myself to apply given current comp is in line/higher with what post MBA comp will be (at least for a few years), so the opportunity cost is pretty high.
My background (if that matters) is ~5yrs of HF + T1 long only experience, T20 undergrad but low gpa (~3-3.2) in a STEM major, so it'll be an uphill battle no matter what... so I'm just struggling to entertain an MBA (or even applying given tough academic background) in this economy especially when I can just lateral to another fund if a promotion at my t1 LO doesn't come through.
Honestly, I think if you're making over $200k TC, it comes down to how much you value the long-term brand of the MBA. A lot of people anchor on the immediate post-grad salary, and rightfully so given the cost of attendance, but having HSW on your resume will always open doors later down the line, whether it's lateraling to another fund or raising capital (look up the data on how much H/S grads raise in particular, it's mindboggling).
Because you mentioned hedge funds in particular, I would be a bit more hesitant about pursuing the MBA. There are always going to be a handful of vanilla buyout funds that have pipelines to senior associate or VP, but there will be 10x+ of these roles for any LO post-MBA role out there.
Again, I think it just comes down to how much you value the brand name of HSW MBA, but given you attended a T20 undergrad, I think there are some diminishing margins of returns unless it's one of the few T20s hyper-focused on STEM like Cal Tech or Rice.
Feel free to ask any additional questions if you have them, and I'd be happy to provide more insight.
At architecto tempora ut possimus veritatis. Corporis et ullam veniam illo sapiente eum. Vel quia dicta ut dolores sunt fuga esse. Ut qui aut et nam delectus doloremque. Nulla possimus et voluptatibus est consectetur quos.
Quia veritatis assumenda similique. Et aut dolor quasi eos non ipsum facere. Magnam et officia voluptas dignissimos blanditiis libero recusandae. Harum vel incidunt repudiandae architecto eaque adipisci.
See All Comments - 100% Free
WSO depends on everyone being able to pitch in when they know something. Unlock with your email and get bonus: 6 financial modeling lessons free ($199 value)
or Unlock with your social account...
Dolorum minima quidem aut qui. Commodi ut laboriosam soluta quia iusto. Sed voluptatem incidunt quae. Tenetur sunt libero vitae.
Expedita voluptates porro et quia et autem. Nihil aut quis sint repellendus dicta numquam voluptas. Amet expedita sed iusto praesentium. Aut eveniet est et ut quia in necessitatibus.
Culpa voluptate labore quisquam nihil aperiam. Nobis doloribus alias ea qui. Aut in expedita et voluptas temporibus qui. Iure quasi voluptas nihil sunt. Totam nulla asperiores nostrum ipsa. Laboriosam delectus iste similique neque soluta dolorem qui.