Worth Transferring out of Amherst/Williams College?
Hey all, current freshman here at Amherst/Williams College (would like to remain anonymous) who is contemplating firing off some transfer apps over break. I wanted to start by saying that I have no qualms whatsoever with Amherst/Williams, I sincerely love it and was accepted into some top clubs and feel that I have a good friend group and a generally great reputation on campus. That being said, I have received a number of concerning comments over the last two weeks regarding the school’s reputation.
For one, my boss from an L/S fund I worked at last summer called me soon after break started to “check in” and told me that I should transfer to HYPSM, he claims to have connections there and he tells me that the Amherst/Williams name is “not taken seriously” and “will hold your career back when you try for top roles”. Furthermore, I have had a number of conversations with some senior folks at BBs and in quantitative roles who have described my school as somewhere “you’ll have to do some extra work from since it not like an elite university” and “one of those little northeastern schools that I’ve barley heard of”. The tones of my conversations have generally given off a “you’re a bright kid from a non target, let me try to help you” vibe, which, safe to say, is not what I was expecting.
Obviously I am pretty disheartened in light of all of this, but I really do like Amherst/Williams and do not wish to leave. So I figured I would ask, do my experiences reflect a common sentiment across the street? Do people genuinely not know about A/W? And is it worth trying to transfer to the likes of HYPSM or even somewhere like Columbia or Penn CAS/Wharton? Would it be as “life changing” as everyone is saying or will I be fine from A/W? Because I really don’t want to go. I’m not trying to be ungrateful or shit on any school, I’m just looking for advice since I’m a bit rattled. Thanks!
The people you are speaking with sound extremely elitist. They probably went to a HYPSM 20 years ago when it was easier to get into than Williams / Amherst is today.
These people sound silly and I wouldn't listen to them as people in finance recognize Williams/Amherst as top schools. I'm also guessing the alumni connections at Amherst/Williams are very tight since it is a small school, so that should go a long way.
Just do the applications. The alumni network at those schools is way stronger and they are known all over the world. I go to a T15 that is not one of those and the few people I knew that transferred had a way easier time recruiting. I would apply to Duke & Northwestern as well.
Uchicago as well, top target these days
Don’t transfer
I wouldn’t change your life based on one person’s comments.
You’re at a top school with a very strong alumni base & have the smarts to make it - which matters the most.
As a side note, my former boss who ran a successfully fund for 30+ years was an alum at one of the schools you listed. Every student outreach was responded to, I can’t say the same for the larger finance focused programs.
Enjoy your college experience. Don’t chance your life off what one person says.
Best of luck!
Transfer.
LOL, you are fine. Dont listen to him.
Are those quotes verbatim? damn, lol
Congrats on Williams
Do not transfer. Use the NESCAC network and talk to more junior alumni at first, not seniors and people outside banking who aren't close to the recruiting process. You'll see that A/W opens a lot of doors.
I went to a NESCAC school with worse brand and network than A/W and landed at EVR/CVP/LAZ. The NESCACs (esp. A/W) regularly send people to BB/EB.
Ngl, if you are fine making new friends and want an even better school/opportunities, transfer out to any one of HYPSM, UChicago, Penn, Columbia, Northwestern and Duke maybe. You're at already a good enough school to recruit well into IB but depending on your place in your school/motivations, it can't hurt to find something EVEN better. Worse comes to worst, don't go or you don't get in. But if you write apps, write very good ones. You need so many things like rec letters and stuff from your high school and all that, so it'll be very time consuming.
I have several friends at Williams going to Jane street, bane, Goldman etc. people are gonna say what they r gonna say but it’s what u make of ur experience at the end of the day and how u set urself apart
Judging from the fact that this intern can't even spell "Bain" ... don't trust him.
U knew what I was talking abt tho so why bother
I am not in the finance field. I chose to attend Amherst over Yale many years ago. I agree that college is what you make of it. If you have made friends and are happy, why change? I found a smaller environment easier to navigate and to be able to stand out. While there is competition everywhere, there are not a large number of capable students who also are aiming for your same career goals at A/W. The emphasis will be on community and camaraderie rather than competition. Enjoy college! I was premed and the atmosphere was very different when the environment felt less competitive. The schools you mention will enable you to do what you want without more competitors and more competitive-type people. Surrounded by the latter can color your college experience. Life is much more than your particular college or how you want to brand yourself (both of which are quite superficial). My closest friends from college are not in the medical field. They are people who are in free lance writing, clergy, science, and business. They also are quite different than me in terms of race, ethnicity, and background. Parodoxically, you may make a much wider circle of friends than you would in a school where you may be taking classes with the same group of people who are aiming for IB.
I was an admissions committee member at Harvard Med many years ago, and applications from Amherst and Williams stood out since we might receive a dozen or so from each school compared to 200 from Harvard. You actually may get a closer look by coming from a different school than the rest. Additionally, we would compare applicants from the same school. You may be one of the five top applicants from A/W but it may not be as likely you would be one of the top 5 or even top 25 from HYPM just by the sheer number of excellent students applying from each school. The same applies for even your campus experience if you want to have leadership roles in organizations. It will be easier for you to stand out and achieve your potential with less competition.
I would transfer if you are unhappy or if the schools you mention offer specific courses/subjects you would not be able to study at your school. Having said that, I aimed for a broad liberal arts education. However, I was able to arrange an one-to-one course in my major with a faculty member. Of course, I had to be pro-active in arranging the course, and could not slack off on my assignments, but I can't imagine an undergrad at HYP having that same experience. Profs at LACs generally value their teaching role. Profs at universities probably less so since they will be evaluated for their research. Williams offers Oxford-style tutorials with two students and one professor if you are attending there.
The only people who don't know Williams/Amherst are either quants or people who went to shit tier schools. I have come across people from both of those schools in IB
Went to a NESCAC and have worked at two elite SM hedge funds. I have found that LAC representation on the buy-side is even higher, proportionally, than on the sell-side.
This one can be explained by nepo
No. Do not.
I think I said this somewhere else on this forum but honestly unless you're so obsessed with finance that you're Rx/MFPE analyst or bust, you're fine. From my W/A Goldman, EVR M&A, and CVP are all doable without special connections / best resume in the United States / etc. Never had anyone talk down to me about my school, and I've networked with a lot of people who went to Ivies
Look at Apollo or Blackstone's list of employees - you will see people from UofM and IU Kelley in their rosters... I'm at Moelis, and there's a kid from Amherst here.
The LACs you listed are well respected and well known in finance and the people saying those things to you are absolute losers who clearly haven't done enough with themselves to move past resting on an accomplishment they achieved 20+ years ago.
That said, if they can truly pull strings to get you into HYPSM easily, you should follow up with them because it would be a free ticket to a stronger brand. Those schools are better, bar none, but if they don't and were saying those things in passing, I wouldn't worry.
Medman has a great post above, so I'm just piggybacking off of him.
I think it would be a big mistake to transfer, here's a couple reasons why.
Amherst/Williams is an excellent school, both from an academics perspective and from a recruting/prestige perspective as well. A/W will basically open almost every door that any other top school could and in some cases, even more as the alumni base is smaller and tighter. Yes, there may be a handful of opportunities that are uniquely reserved for a HYP etc type of person, but I'd argue there are opportunities out there that are reserved for an A/W person. If you can't get a good banking/consulting hell even PE/HF job out of A/W, it's likely not the school/network that is holding you back.
The guy that recommended you transfer is an idiot. Period, full stop. Don't take everything you hear from senior finance guys as gospel. Plenty of morons, even in the upper echelons of business, finance, etc. Good to take his thoughts into account and consider transferring (as you're doing) but start to develop a good BS detector. It's good to start figuring out who is actually smart and thoughtful and which guys got to the top via nepotism, luck, etc and now are in positions where they can spew garbage opinions and have people take them seriously. No reasonably informed or intelligent person would say that A/W are garbage and that you're at a major disadvantage if you don't transfer, that is just patently false info. I'd argue that unless you got into a Harvard/Princeton, a Penn/UChicago, etc might even be a step down...
Last thing, sounds like you're doing well at A/W! You have friends, invovled on campus, etc. If you were unhappy, that would be a whole other thing, but to roll the dice on transferring to a place where you'll have to re make friends, reinvolve yourself, etc is a big task. And what if it doesn't work out? What if you transfer to a Harvard, but find out that friend groups have already kind of formed, you don't like the other transfer kids that much, etc. So now you're lonely and isolated, do you think that's going to make you a better candidate than being well connected and happy at an A/W?
At the end of the day, it's your life so do as you want, but I think you're taking a fairly big personal risk by leaving for a very marginal gain in terms of recruiting opportunities. Stay where you are, take advantage of everything that A/W has to offer and hey, if you really want the prestige stamp of a H/S, go back for business school in a few years time. Then you get the best of both, Elite LAC undergrad and top B-School.
Those people are fairly stupid, if the Tiger Cubs, d1, every EB is taking some level of A/W kids the school is at least a low target at worst.
though, i would like to note, these LACs have an easier time landing the higher EB roles so they are worth it obviously lol. also a/w combined sent 60 ppl to Bain in 3 yrs if consulting is smth and williams alums are going to goldman like crazy while amherst alums are making it to Elliott and Bain Capital while running PJT.
also didnt the viking guy (and Chase at Tiger) go to Williams?
but it’s your interest. if you want to do finance/consulting, should be fine. if you want to do tech, startups, quant, general entrepreneurship, or if you want to just have more “general” prestige transfer. not saying you should or should not transfer it’s totally up to your interests.
But, something else to note is when it comes to the other quant/hf folks on the street (Citadel/Citsec/DE Shaw) and general placement at buyside out of undergrad A/W lack pretty far behind.
really the only schools except hypsm (since those schools have low rates) are Penn/Columbia/UChicago/Duke. but understand that the guys going straigbt to buyside like BX KKR are not average at all lol. they’re the best of the best at the school, in clubs with 2% acceptance rates winning pitches across the nation.
I’d say if you are super keen on it just shoot ur shot, if you have time. if not A/W is 100% fine and what i hear is if you cant get a role in MBB + IB it’s really on you (i cant confirm nor deny this just what ive heard).
pm me too lol
What did you end up deciding?
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