MS vs GS vs JPM FI S&T Exit Opps
Hi everyone. Current Sophomore recruiting 2027 FI S&T at H/Y/P, studying math. Very strong interest in macro, fixed income, and want to end up on buy-side long term. For some reason, it feels like I've seen way more alums of MS Fixed Income (Swaps, Rates Vol, FX Vol, etc.) go to top Macro/Fixed Income buy-side firms like Citadel, Brevan, Alphadyne, etc. than from JPM, or even GS. I'm sure there is bias based off of who I'm connected with on linkedin, but wanted to hear people's opinions. I have also heard from semi-credible sources that GS/MS tend to take more risk in their S&T divisions.
Overall, for someone who wants to go into buyside Macro/FI relative value, if I were to hypothethically get an offer from all three firms (strong emphasis on hypothetically), which firm would you pick? Is it very desk-dependent? Or, if you're on a strong enough desk (rates vol for example), does the firm matter?
Just trying to get a better sense of what the industry looks like. Thanks for the help!
I was under the impression that MS is generally weaker in fixed income in general
Weak franchise often means having to take more risk to make pnl compared to a Jp type place with monster flow
does that imply that it's harder to go to buyside from a place like JP?
Does that mean a shop like RBC/Wells tends to take more prop risk than JPM?
Bumping this as someone with an MS offer, but also wants to go buy-side/hedgefund land.
you already got 27 offer for ficc?
some people have superdays alr I've heard
keep and then recruit buy side, its what i did
buy side grad programs full ass. the only reliable one is de shaw.
did R1 last monday, you think I’ll hear back this monday/this week?
I did R1 last tuesday, didn't hear back yet but I know someone else from my school already heard back for superday next week
Work at MS in fixed income. Have received a lot of inbounds from recruiters at pod shops. Can't speak for the other firms.
What desk? Mind if I msg u?
Hey man, thanks for the color. I was wondering what you think are the strongest desks at the firm? I'm leaning towards structured products, commodities, HY/Distressed Credit but open to some other desks as well.
dm me
can i PM
All three are good brands obviously, but mentorship is important (and that's where the HFs/quant firms excel) - if your boss is a clown, then you will need to work extra hard to teach yourself to recruit externally. That being said, pick rates if you want to go to the buyside - at least for macro/FIRV. Not even close. Also, be ready to prove you have technical skills (shouldn't be an issue if you're a math major and can answer basic leetcode questions). Those are things you can improve before you even start working.
Picking between banks for mentors is difficult because headcount will likely change between now and summer 2027. Cultures are different at each - speak to people from all three and you'll have a sense who you get on with better. If you don't get on with someone, they won't teach you anything no matter how good you think they are. Most internship offers are given before desk placement (in some cases is rotational over the summer), so your internship is unlikely to be for X or Y desk stated in a contract. For choice, I'd probably aim for swaps or rates vol - USTs and inflation fine as well. Banks' strengths in those areas vary significantly, but most are decent enough all around. You should pray that vol returns to rates by 2027!
I'd also suggest that as a math major (especially at a good school), you should really aim for a prop/quant trading firm - better in terms of pay, WLB, and actual training. Even if you're really set on macro, most of those places are active in macro...
What are your thoughts on the quality of exits from SPG (TBA mortgages, agency, non-agency, tranche products), Commodities, and HY Credit/Loans for Hedge Funds?
I found these products to be much more interesting and a better culture compared to the vanilla rates desk at my firm. I didn't get the best opportunity to look into rates, vol/derivatives, but did find TIPS relatively interesting (if you insist on rates). What are your thoughts for quality of life, comp, and exits if I am incoming at a top firm?
Which prop are active in macro besides DRW and HRT?
JS, CitSec, Optiver, IMC (does FXO), and probably a few others
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