I've gotten offers from both firms as a software developer at Optiver and into the FTAP program at Citadel. I'm wondering if anyone has any personal experiences that they could share about either firm. Its hard to get an accurate portrayal of what life would be like without actually working there. I've heard that Citadel is a pretty stressful environment, while Optiver seemed completely on the other end of the spectrum. Do both firms have a bright future ahead of them in your opinions?
It's coming down to a pretty tough decision. Citadel's compensation is significantly higher than Optiver, but you can't really tell how discretionary bonuses will be given out at either firm.
Thanks,
some related info here: http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/citadel-ftap-vs-drw-software-engi…
not optiver, unless you're dutch.
I would take Citadel, not because the pay is higher, but it is better for long term growth. Optiver is a joke.
Unlikely to last more than two years at Citadel
Unlikely to last more than 6 months to 1 year at Optiver
What's with all the hate on Optiver? From what I could tell it was a good firm? Is its reputation sinking?
its very dutch vs. non dutch at these firms. Optiver arent doing so great in revenues and partner are bailing left right and centre.
they had a lot of their revenue stream "competed" away by Tibra (google it), and also got fined heavily in the hammer case (google again).
their successful traders earn well, but its a very much sink or swim culture. citadel would be a better environment for you to be in, in my opinion.
lot of office consolidation going on as well, its a decent enough job, but if you have a citadel offer there are too many If's hanging around for you not to take citadel.
Seems fair. The only thing I'm worried about it Citadel's work hours. I'm coming from a few internships at Google, where things are quite relaxed. In the end, I'm a developer so the life should generally be less stressful than a trader, but I've heard of 12+ hours days and working on the weekends at Citadel. I'm find with working lots of hours (I worked 9-9 at Google), but I'm worried about losing my Friday nights and weekends to work.
I have no intention of convincing you to take one offer or another, but I feel that it is unfair that you may be making your decision on misinformation from fellow students / traders at other firms. It is an undeniable fact that you will be working harder at Citadel, although your income will have both a higher ceiling and more potential to accelerate. On the other hand, there is a very strict work-life balance at Optiver - you will always have your weekends and fridays. The dutch vs. non-dutch thing is a non-issue, especially at the Chicago office. At Citadel though, you may find that it is difficult to advance as there is a heavy amount of internal competition moving up. Finally, Optiver is definitely not sink or swim - for traders and certainly not for devs. Last year was a great year for many MMs, so revenues were high across the board.
1) In any case, what is this whole dutch v. non-dutch thing? 2) What are the work hours at Citadel? 3) Does the future of both the firms seem bright in your opinion?
1) its a 2 tier system with some form of nationalistic nepotism. Some guy at IMC wrote about this a long time ago. Google it.
2) If you're really going to whinge about the work hours, a) pray they don't use google in their head office, there cant be too many software people in chicago they've just given offers to, and b) you're in the wrong industry.
3) Both face the same risks, margins are squeezed, look at management and form your own view. If I could predict the future of private companies, I'd be freaking awesome at public ones and wouldn't be typing here.
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