Comments (44)

Nov 23, 2013

If you can guarantee a spot in BAML M&A or Sponsors, there's no particular reason why you'd want to gamble for the average coverage position at MS/JP.

Nov 23, 2013

Product Group>Industry Group

I'm not concerned with the very poor
-Mitt Romney

Nov 23, 2013
Mitt Romney:

Product Group>Industry Group

Not always true at all.

Nov 23, 2013

OP, you're in a great spot. Take the return offer and enjoy the rest of college!

Nov 23, 2013

Yea, there's definitely a difference in both prestige and exit opps.

However, obviously don't risk your BAML offer if you have a deadline you need to accept by (unless you want to renege). Also, you can potentially negotiate for a better group at GS/MS/etc by telling them the group BAML has offered you.

Best Response
Nov 23, 2013

You have a couple options.

a) Take the return offer and negotiate into one of their top groups (you listed their big three). Maintain your internal relationships, continue building your brand, and do everything you can to enter the full-time analyst program as one of the top guys.

b) Take the return offer knowing all along you are going to be pushing for a better firm during the accelerated full-time hiring process (August-September after internships end). Two summers at BAML with one in a top group at the firm will give you a resume competitive enough that BX, GS, and MS will all acknowledge.

As long as you stay on top of your contacts no less frequently than monthly up until the summer and then get phone calls or quick coffees during the summer, you can get an interview scheduled for August before you head back to school.

c) Push aggressively now for an interview at a better firm. GS' accelerated process is already too far underway (and you're abroad) for that to be of use. BX is a crapshoot; some people's resumes get selected through the blind online drops while others network pretty aggressively. Try your hand there; if you don't attend Harvard/Wharton you won't have OCR, but if you can connect with people some other way, you can get your resume pushed through for a phone first round that will get you to the same superday in the office the target guys attend.

MS is fairly accommodating of study-abroad candidates (at least when I was in the game). If you have any alumni, develop a relationship and explain your circumstance. They interview (again, in my time) all the way into February for the summer program.

The big thing here with the first two paths is that you make up your mind and commit. If you toy with the idea of switching shops, it is almost guaranteed to affect you. Good luck.

    • 2
Nov 23, 2013

As someone else here said, OP, you're in a pretty sweet spot- enjoy it. I'd personally take one of the first 2 options listed by @APAE, especially since it sounds like you didn't have a bad experience at BAML. Get into one of the top groups there for the summer, crush it, and then consider moving elsewhere if you want to- you will (should) be competitive basically anywhere, and you can enjoy your study abroad semester more without having to worry about recruiting etc.

Nov 24, 2013

Thanks for the breakdown APAE, definitely leaning towards option B at the moment, but am a little concerned about the ease of switching come full-time recruiting. Do most of these full-time slots open up right as summer ends? And is there a significant difference between a MS coverage group (say HC or Transport) or one of the 3 BAML groups I mentioned?

Nov 24, 2013

There is a flurry of recruiting that goes on at the end of the summer. Banks will have interview confirmed with some candidates before the summer is even over. e.g. GS reaches out to candidates who received a summer offer at GS and went elsewhere or who interviewed but received no summer offer but were regarded as strong (and stayed in touch with their contacts at GS).

It isn't "easy" but as long as people know you before the summer (i.e. you accept your BAML return now but start building relationships immediately) and you stay in touch with them, the top banks are going to be eager to interview you as a replacement for their current summers who aren't shaping up to get an offer.

Yes, there's a difference between those groups. Product groups (and Sponsors) at BAML do the best at that firm, but headhunters usually go straight to these five groups: BX R&R and M&A, GS FIG and TMT, and MS M&A.

There are never enough candidates there alone, so stronger industry groups at GS and MS are next. For example, TPG went one week late in the recruiting process the other year and ended up literally filling their class with GS analysts (FIG, CRG, HC ...).

Industry groups at MS are up there as well; Media/Comms and GPUG do well from what I hear from peers.

The phenomenon I just described above is due to headhunters; for analysts in those groups, they reach out to you. That doesn't mean analysts from other firms are refused interviews with the best names during recruiting season, you just have to be much more proactive.

If you aren't in one of those 'hot' groups, reach out to older guys from your group who have already accepted offers, leverage seniors in your group who are willing to help (if you are lucky to be in a group with that culture).

Headhunters get paid for candidates they put in front of the firm that the firm hires. They are incentivized to select the best candidates, which is why they target certain groups. Figure out a way to prove that you are worth it.

I know a guy from BAML M&A who got Cerberus. Was very open with his headhunter about his interest in distressed, got a few interviews, and had a senior in his group absolutely go to bat for him. I know a guy from UBS went to KKR. It happens, you just need to be smart about it. Always maximize your chances. Good luck.

    • 1
Nov 23, 2013

For what its worth, theres huge difference between exits at BAML and say a GS/MS/GHL/LAZ/BX. But that doesnt mean theyre bad. Enjoy.

Nov 23, 2013
Joshua93:

For what its worth, theres huge difference between exits at BAML and say a GS/MS/GHL/LAZ/BX. But that doesnt mean theyre bad. Enjoy.

Would not group GHL and LAZ in that conversation. And I also wouldn't say it's drastically different between top groups at BAML vs. top groups at MS/GS/BX

Nov 23, 2013
HarvardOrBust:
Joshua93:

For what its worth, theres huge difference between exits at BAML and say a GS/MS/GHL/LAZ/BX. But that doesnt mean theyre bad. Enjoy.

Would not group GHL and LAZ in that conversation. And I also wouldn't say it's drastically different between top groups at BAML vs. top groups at MS/GS/BX

I don't want to start a flame war, but any group at BAML is far off groups that have what are considered to be "top exit ops" at the banks I posted. I'm unfamiliar with members on this board, so I'm not sure if you are working yet, but headhunters start calling the top guys 6-8 months into the job. BAML, for any group, is not on the same level - not even close to the same tier.

Obviously there will be exceptions, but this is generally the truth.

Nov 23, 2013
APAE:

MS is fairly accommodating of study-abroad candidates (at least when I was in the game). If you have any alumni, develop a relationship and explain your circumstance. They interview (again, in my time) all the way into February for the summer program.

This is true!

Nov 23, 2013

There's definitely a difference, but if you're a good candidate, you will be able to move to GS / MS for full time opportunities. BX is much smaller, so naturally, it's hard to guarantee anything there.

    • 1
Nov 23, 2013

cbs eh buddy

Nov 26, 2013

yes roy

Nov 25, 2013

^Sorry, that's just not true. Analysts in top groups at middle-of-the-road BBs will definitely get a few interviews with the most elite shops, but BX and GS top groups literally get 90%+ of all possible interviews.

Nov 25, 2013

Considering you can't realistically interview at all the places you get interviews for, I'm not sure how wide of a gap this becomes. Sure it would be nice to pick which MFs you want to interview for, but if you end up interviewing at Carlyle and KKR instead of Apollo and Blackstone... HFs is a different story. I will admit that HF recruiting is much tougher if you're not at BX / GS

Nov 25, 2013

i graduated not too long ago, and from what i saw, the top kids (high GPA, great ECs) from my target school didn't go to BAML. they went to gs/ms/bx/laz etc. what group it was at BAML didn't even matter- and in most cases group placement happened after joining the firm anyways. i assume it was the same for other target schools.

so i have a hard time buying into your argument. surely the top HHs (who are paid for results) know where the best talent is on the street and which candidates are the likeliest to land a kkr or a baupost gig

    • 2
Nov 25, 2013

P man teach me your ways

Nov 26, 2013

Since OP is studying abroad this semester he might be better advised to take the BAML SA offer since he is almost guaranteed Lev Fin/FS/M & A for the summer of junior year. Upon getting a f/t offer OP can try to leverage that for accelerated recruiting at GS/MS and interview with BX for f/t as well.

Nov 28, 2013

Just for an update, I was able to push my BAML deadline back and have two super days for MS and GS for this december. Thanks for all the insight guys!

Nov 28, 2013

Be careful, dude. You've already hinted to the BAML folks that you're double-minded about their offer; they obviously know your interviewing at other places now. Unless if you got a return offer for a specific group at baml, you may not be able to wield as much influence into some of the more desirable groups.

This is a double-edge sword. If you get an offer at GS and MS, and you accept, you're fine. But I know someone who shopped around his offer to the very last week, and got screwed with group placements at his incumbent shop - it dilutes the goodwill you created to even get the return offer.

Not trying to scare you, but would like to present the argument from how the folks at BAML may perceive the situation.

Nov 28, 2013
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