Differentiating yourself for hedge fund recruiting (post-IB)
Pretty straightforward. Other than having the basic 3.5+ GPA and being at a solid bank/group (assuming you start in IB and are looking to move to HF), what can you really do to differentiate yourself from the other candidates during recruiting?
Be a woman or a minority
Anything I can materially affect if I am neither of those two lol
1 IMO is compete is tons of competitions, get the CFA I, II, or/and III, and write/contribute on Seeking Alpha.
All the best HF ppl I know started as an editor on Seeking Alpha. Not great for everyone.
EDIT: For the people getting butthurt about the suggestion at seeking alpha, one good reason to work for the company is you get pretty good exposure to the people that work in hedge funds, their ideas, and begin to craft your own, not to mention the writing skills you make pick up.
You will be noticed (I suppose), but it really won't help you at all
I'd say the quality of your pitches/ideas and the depth of research exhibited in the ideas can set you apart... understanding the weaknesses of the ideas and knowing how to address them smoothly when they come up is also critical.
Good luck! Patrick
HF Recruiting (Originally Posted: 06/10/2014)
So I'm at this point where I'm happy with what I have but know can do better. To give some background, I went to a feeder school in NYC, then did two years in real estate banking, one year in synthetic credit strategy / research, both at the same BB. I just very recently joined a PE firm doing Real Estate Debt for them. While I like the gig, it's a borderline capital markets role where execution commands more of my work time over investment decisions.
My ideal job is investing in structured credit / CMBS / CDO / CLO / ABS at a fast money shop aka a hedge fund. To achieve that, I've considered going back to school. I'm considering both an MBA and a Masters in something quantitative, such as Statistics or Financing Engineering.
Since I'm not really desperate to get into a B-school and don't really have much to loose, I'm thinking of applying only to 10 schools, the top 6 MBAs (H/W/S, Columbia, Chicago, MIT) and 4 masters programs (MS Statistics at Stanford / Harvard / Columbia, Princeton Mfin).
Wondering if anyone here had any advice / comments / warnings. Also, anyone know if MIT is good for HF recruiting? I wasn't sure if I should replace MIT with Yale / LBS.
Thanks
Thanks Patrick. Any ideas about getting the interview? I'm at a top MM, but looking to move off to a solid HF (open to several different strategies). Any thoughts on whether I should proactively reach out to headhunters of even the funds themselves to get the interview? Also, any idea where I would get the contact info of headhunters?
yes, definitely reach out to headhunters...you can find a huge list of recruiters in the WSO Company Database free right here: http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/wso-company-database just filter under Industries: headhunters / recruiters ...
One thing you might want to do is narrow down your focus...if you go to a recruiter saying "i want to work at any hedge fund" you will likely land fewer interviews vs saying something such as "I want to work at a distressed HF because I worked in restructuring in IB, so I feel that the skill set I developed while working as an analyst is directly relevant to those funds..." etc...
It doesn't have to be THAT specific, but showing that you're a bit more focused and branding yourself as the Macro guy or the Relative Value guy or the long/short guy , etc can give you an edge when competing with BB candidates. In reality you could want any HF job, but if you go in with that mentality, I think it looks desperate and shows that you haven't given much though to what environment would fit your skill set and personality best.
Good luck, Patrick
I've done a bunch of research on b-schools/graduate degrees and one thing that pops its head up all the time is to go for an American school over a LBS/INSEAD/Oxbridge if you want to work/continue to work in the US rather than Europe because it just makes getting a job much easier. Given the varied and often unstructured nature of HF recruiting, I would personally stick to American schools over European ones.
Yeah, that makes sense. The only reason I would apply to LBS is I thought it'd offer me offer at these kinds of shops in Europe. I'm more or less agnostic to location, and care more about the role. In your research, did you find B-school or masters degrees helping with this kind of transition?
Short answer: yes. Especially for someone like me (heading into IB outside the US, eventually want to do an MBA in the US and work there after).
However I will add that given your experience, you may not actually need an MBA to make the jump. Read many stories on here about PE ---> HF. If you haven't already, I'd consider reaching out to headhunters that work with HFs to see if you gain any traction without needing an MBA.
Different story if you actually want the degree for other reasons also, of course.
Read the career surveys of HWS + Chicago. The % of the class going to hedge funds is like 3-5. Most hedge funds that hire post MBA actually look for buyside experience before MBA. They don't care if it's private equity (shoved in fundamental analysis), VC (shoved in tech/growth portfolio), or HF (shoved in whatever you did previously).
Numbers don't lie.
You have a really solid resume. Wondering why you're looking at masters programs in stat or mfin/mfe. Almost no one from those programs have gotten the jobs that you want; mfin/mfe is mostly for sellside trading/structuring, high-frequency trading, quant research at a hedge fund or Asset Management firm, risk management, pricing, etc.
In terms of hedge fund recruiting, not that many do on-campus recruiting at b-schools, but a decent number will post jobs on the job board. But it's pretty competitive, as you can very well imagine. I'm assuming given your interest you're targeting funds such as elliott, avenue, golden tree, oaktree, Fortress, etc.
Hedge Fund Recruiting - Advice Needed! (Originally Posted: 04/10/2011)
Do hedge funds recruit more from IBD analysts or from Investment Management firms?
I currently work in the front office of a well known Investment Management firm and a friend of mine wants to bring me on his IBD team as a second-year analyst at a bulge bracket bank. I'm not sure if it would be worth the jump for recruiting / b-school purposes because I have already jumped twice since I graduated college in 2008. (Back office job to back office job to front office job)
Advice?
-Do two years of MF PE. 2+2 is becoming more common and considered "elite". Its absurd and driven by groupthink but the reality.
-In the HF world very few people are going to care if you saved gay baby whales from the fishing industry or tutored poor kids in Appalachia. Its clarity of your thinking, how well your interview, your pitch, and most importantly how you handle poignant questions.
-Don't bring up Seeking Alpha. Seriously.
Sorry that is not that helpful but hopefully realistic expectations are good. Nail your pitch and try to find an actual investor to work through it with beforehand.
What's the benefit of doing 2+2 vs. just going straight to HF (aside from funds that only look to the former background)?
Some hedge funds have a very skewed understanding that 2+2 is somehow superior. I think it's the same reasoning why certain e.g. L/S funds want people with an IBD background - i.e. you know what you get, highly trained people on the technical side with no preconceived notions or style of investing, meaning that you're very moldable. So the 2+2 I feel is just a double screening mechanism of IBD takes only the best and you have a big pool of IBD people, hence it makes sense to go through those. PE also has a fairly high number of juniors, therefore you have a decent pool of people to look at and only the very best of the IBD cohort will get to the best PE shops.
Still think it's idiotic as hell, but you know. Just FYI, you see none of that in Europe, very rarely do you see 2+2 background people in HFs here.
Just to clarify, what's wrong with bringing up/listing on your resume that you are a contributor to Seeking Alpha? Is it just that you are opening yourself up to criticism?
Also, I'm at a top MM bank (top 3 groups) with slightly above a 3.5 GPA, so MF PE is not likely a path to be open to me and nor is it something I'm interested in at all. Anything you recommend for just getting the interview itself during HF recruiting? I'll definitely reach out to headhunters myself and express specific interest in exactly what type of funds I'm looking into and why, but is there anything material I can do to get the interview itself?
Because it's not an overly serious point that you'd want to convey across. It's the same as saying I have diary at home where I write about my thoughts on markets / politics / economics. It hardly warrants a bullet point simply because it's a platform and it's online.
Plus, your point on opening yourself up to criticism is a valid one too. It's sort of like getting arrested - don't answer questions that you're not being asked.
Well for starters, what do you do at your investment management firm? Are you doing research? Is it related to funds or actual portfolio management? etc. etc.
For certain HF, investment management is better, for others IBD will be better. Depends what you want to do...
I work in FICC and help handle most of the portfolio management duties. Our daily trades are quant driven, I just run the models and tell our traders what to do. Also, I handle all of the monthly rebalances.
As far as analytics go, I look at any new bond deals that are presented to us and give recommendations to overweight, go neutral, or just underweight (relative to the index). Since we're a mutual fund, we're benchmarked against an index. I also run regressions on our fund returns vs certain factors (gold, yen, etc) to see where our exposures are (vs. competitors). This helps us know what our competitors are doing - and how to beat them.
My five cents worth:
It depends on what you really enjoy, investing/research or deal based work/ execution/ powerpoints and excel. Hedge funds do hire from both of the groups but again it depends on what type of funds. For example large multistrats and those who do private/direct investing will usually opt for M&A guys. Note its usually, not always so there are always exceptions.
My guess is you are probably wondering this because you are at a small-mid sized fund versus you mentioned BB IBD. My advice is size matters but it should not be your primary objective. Many times top funds are often small and lean while the large ones can be fairly crappy so its hard to generalize. You should consider things like learning opportunities, development etc.
If you dislike banging your head over typos, formatting, preparing decks and reviewing 300 pages of legal execution documents, not to mention juggling political situations (cos its fee based) with little time to sleep, much less for social and constantly on standby then don't make the move.
You need to check the boxes to get an interview most of the time - caliber of undergrad, GPA, ideally part of investment clubs and reading investing books. After you get the interview is when a lot of the differentiation comes into play.
Honestly don't think I could ever hire someone who is on Seeking Alpha regularly. Not a good read on their character in my view
HF recruiting and having an advocate at my bank? (Originally Posted: 10/21/2012)
Hello, I am a first year analyst and my bank has a policy that no recruiting is allowed at all during the first year (and the first part of your second year). Either way, I can't imagine investment banks being too keen on allowing HF recruiting since many of them ask for an immediate start. How have analysts gone about recruiting and having references while keeping their firm in the dark about possibly taking an immediate start offer? What should I do given my firm's policy to disallow recruiting until partly into your second year?
I guess my question is really about whether it is expected for me to have someone at my firm advocate me to HF's even though 1) recruiting this early is an offense worthy of being fired, and 2) my group could possibly lose me before my two year contract is up.
Any insight would be truly helpful. Thanks.
what good is a contract if you're not going to abide by it in good faith?
If you are at a firm that disallows 1st year recruiting (eg GS), no HF is going to ask "Mind if I call your MD as a reference check?".
As for how you recruit, you should do as i-bankers have done for years: come up with excuses. Dentist's appointments, stomach flu, funerals, etc.
Basically, do what's best for you. It can be a touchy subject, but the analyst contract is not sacred. Remember, they can fire you before your 2 years contract is up (e.g. the guys at UBS laid off the day before bonuses).
They'll ask for your signing bonus back, but nothing more. You may or may not burn a bridge, but generally MDs understand the motivation for taking a job with better hours and more money. Some risk is involved, but you need to make that choice for yourself. From what I have heard, 1st year recruiting still goes on at those firms.
Thanks West Coast rainmaker. +1
Never understood those excuses. A lot of first years must get sick at the same time...
During recruiting season, in terms of excuses, you need to set up ones that are recurring - you can only attend so many funerals in a month. Redecorating is a good one, as the senior guys will sympathise with the difficulties of dealing with an asshole contractor.
Remodeling? For a first year analyst? Who remodels their shithole studio on the UES or converted 1 bedroom with a fake wall in Murray Hill? I think an MD would spot that from a mile away.
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