Experienced Analyst, but COMPLETELY unable to break out
Been an analyst for over THREE years now, now at my second bank, but I hate it. Which isn't to say I'm not a hard worker, but I'm not getting any good experience, deals are few and far between - and extremely small when they do come - and I'm so far removed from the normal IB process that every day I stay here is actively hurting my chances of doing what I want to do in the long run (large cap PE).
I have had no luck with alumni, despite having reached out to dozens over the years. I have had no luck with recruiters; they just ignore my emails when I reach out. I have no network, I'm too old for everything, and I want to give up. My role has next to no technical involvement, and even buying/doing BIWS courses has left me feeling useless. I CANNOT go back to school; please do not suggest this.
What do I do? How do I network in this position? How do I prepare for if I ever do get an interview, which will probably have a case study I am woefully unprepared for? Mostly I don't even know how I'd get that interview at all. No one ever seems to respond these days when I reach out.
For the sake of my sanity, please do not tell me that I a)am too desperate (I realize that, thanks), b)am too old (ditto, but I know what I want to do), or c)should go back to school (cannot happen). I need to know how to fix this, not all the issues with trying which I am already extremely, painfully aware of.
You sound like a desperate, old person. Have you thought about just going back to school?
Well I guess that gets it out of the way early if nothing else.
Hmm that sucks my friend. First thing is first: are you at a BB? EB? Regional no-name? What about the first bank you worked at?
I'm a mere intern compared to a beast like yourself, but maybe I can help out a tad. Seems like you're frustrated with the lack of technicals involved. Have you considered reaching out to MM PE funds? I know they're not the dream you wanted initially, but it can definitely help your scenario out. And what's more, you can always try moving to a mega fund afterwards (from what I hear, not such an easy feat, but I don't think anything is impossible).
Or better yet, why not just ask for more deals? See who the real rainmaker is in IBD at your bank, and ask that MD for an opportunity to work on a deal via networking with him. I had a friend who did exactly that at a BB (in Asia), and it worked wonderfully for him.
Anyways man, I'm sure my advice isn't as good as someone else's that actually went through the same as you, or even someone with more experience than me, but just take a step back and breathe. You're a banker, you're at the top of the pile. There's nothing you can't do!
The bank I'm at now is a very low ranking MM; the bank I was at before was a very high ranking BB. The reasons why I left are, 20/20, incredibly bad, obviously, and I regret them every day, but I can't go back on them. My current bank has zero interesting deals - I've asked, a lot - and no big deal makers. I feel like every single analyst here absolutely hates it. Basically, my current bank is completely useless, and barely a step up from not working at all.
So I need to know: how do I network WITHOUT recruiters or alums, how do I get good experience WITHOUT interesting deals, and how do I find interviews WITHOUT a good name on my resume as my most current bank?
What were the reasons for leaving the BB? To be honest, I would highly question your reasoning for leaving and unless you were top performing at the BB and people would say good things about you then I think it is going to be a major obstacle.
Mega-fund PE is going to be almost impossible. They like people with a standardized background and the fact that you were on that track and then left is going to raise so many red flags. For better or worse I don't think they would over look that, but who know, anything is possible I suppose.
Do you still have a network at your previous bank? if rejoining them is possible, that would make a move to PE easier.
I was never on track; the group I was in at the BB was a support group within the IB division - not an industry team, one which never did any client interactions, or any involved modeling, it was just pulling data all day. There was no way to transfer from this group to any other within the bank, since they already had a pipeline for analysts. This was among the reasons I left. I have no network there. Feel free to point out that I'm not a 3rd year analyst. Actually, now that I think of it, it might be better to say that I wasn't, because then at least it would show some degree of upward progression instead of falling...but otoh, I'm hesitant to say I wasn't an "IB analyst at ______", since I feel like maybe that helps get the foot in the door. I don't know.
I am extremely, painfully, blindingly aware the difficulty of my situation - it is all I've been able to think about for years now - and so my question is how to get out of it, not to be reminded of the ludicrously high chances that I'll never be able to reach my dream job. Believe me when I say that it is the exact opposite of helpful.
Basically, I need to know the answer to the following, and nothing else: -How do I network without alums or headhunters? -How do I frame my story as someone who had a support role within IB - not operations, but in IB? -How do I prepare on my own for technical case studies? -Is there anyone I could hire for help with specifically IB recruiting?
Hah, I wish. No, I was in one of those support groups which is usually moved offsite to India or Buffalo or somewhere. Real Analyst asks us for data (league tables, historical backups, multiple charts over time, etc), and we get it. No industry, no particular product group, no thought required.
You're situation is slightly better than I thought. It sounds like you were in like a GS SLC type role which IMO is NOT transaction investment banking and I think you need to stop positioning it as so. It's a much better story to say you went from a support function to a real investment bank (even if lower middle market) then that you went down from a 'top BB IBD' role.
What probably needs changing is your attitude. You aren't being very resourceful.
How do you network without alums and headhunters? You email them, say you are in "x role at an investment bank" and are looking for "x,y,z". A lot of people will ignore you, some won't. Capitalize on the ones that will listen by having good reasoning and showing strong interest in what they do.
How do you frame your story? Again stop pretending like your first job was in a true IBD role, it sounds like it wasn't and will only make you look bad by trying to make it into that.
How do you prepare for technicals? This is the easiest one and I'll give you the same advice I give everyone. You read Rosenbaum (you can find a free link in seconds), you read the interview guides, and if you are really serious you pay the $200 or whatever it costs for Wallstreet prep or BIWS and you religiously watch the videos. These all take time and serious effort. You decide how badly you want it
Alums: I say I'm a few years out of school, and if they would be willing to give some advice on navigating banking. Mostly, these conversations wind up with them giving me advice about how to move around, but never specifics about precisely how to try and break in besides generally be lucky. I make a point to ask them lots of questions about their path and how they feel their bank is different. I never ask if they have a job right then, since I feel that would be rather gauche, but instead say that if can think of anyone with whom it would be useful for me to speak, then please let me know. This is typically the last I hear of them; 9 times out of 10, if their bank gets an opening and I email them, they don't respond, and that 10th time, they say they don't know anyone. I have been doing this for 3 years now, averaging about 1 email to an alum a day. I stopped getting responses/tapped the well dry about a year ago.
Headhunters: I reached out to Selby Jenning, Glocap, Michael Page, Vettery, and a few others, saying I'd love to get on their calendars to try and see what's out there; they never respond back.
General networking: I find myself at the point where I'm reaching out to people on LI, although I never know how to do this in a way which isn't awkward. I need a very clear guide on ~exactly~ what to say, if there is such a thing. Not a "try to have this general feel" kind of deal, a word-for-word guide (since I'm guessing I won't be spilling my lifestory out in a LI message).
Framing: I say I was support at a large BB and am now at a smaller MM; that I enjoyed the support on larger deals I was doing at the BB due to more interesting companies and more complicated deal dynamics and the fact that I'm actually on a deal team at the MM, and that I want to combine the two by getting on a deal team which deals with larger deals; ie, a BB. I am very aware that I come across as desperate here, and so try extremely hard to temper myself when I talk to anyone in real life.
Prepare for technicals: I have a full BIWS guide, but honestly it seems like mostly just "here's this cell, now put it here, now here's this formula, now drag it here" and not a lot on the how/why/where I'd get the info in the first place. I'm not an idiot, I pick some stuff up, but I never feel as though I'd be able to do it in a pressured situation. If nothing else, I am excellent at excel.
Read my lateraling guide. That should answer several of your questions/concerns, especially the part where you have no technical experience.
The first thing I notice is that there seems to be something missing to your story. You left a top BB for a lower MM, which I would hope we can agree is quite bizarre, but you only disclose that once another poster asks. I might be wrong, and I hope I am, but what else is there? Are you being rude to these recruiters? Are you sending non-stop follow ups to bankers when you try to network? Did the BB fire you for terrible performance?
My suggestion would be to first read my lateraling guide and then buy the WSO resume review service. I used it when I lateraled, and it was 100% worth it. Then, start going over BIWS. Like I mention in my lateraling guide, use client financials and just stay late at work and build some models. Watching BIWS videos is great, but actually building the models is much better. Once you all that in order, start applying to IB positions. You don't need a recruiter to lateral.
And, I know you said not to point this out, but you really do sound very desperate. I was too when I first started my lateral process from a "no-name" boutique to a top MM, but that really hurt me in some interviews. Take a deep breath and try to change your attitude. Good luck.
+1 SB for Sil.
This is way out of my league...Though you have a job, making money, and have a roof over your head, is life so terrible for you right now? (shrugs).
We all have our reasons for our actions, but its important to look ahead instead of backwards about every decision you've regretted, it sets a poor mental state of mind.
If there are no roads you see, create one. Most importantly, believe in yourself.
Still in the fact that he is probably making more than most people in the US ever will at a comfy job.
I would do the following:
1- Buy the WSO PE guide and do all the practice lbo models. Try and do one a day for like a month to get a good feel. It will make you feel more confident knowing you can crack out a basic LBO in 40mins. I didn't do banking and felt ahead of my peers in banking after practicing like my life depended on it.
2- Find a modeling guide/course that teaches you how to properly build 3 statement models. Try and build the one from the guide/course a few times until you can do it without looking at the answer. Then start building your own from public companies' 10k statements.
3- Start looking at public companies that you like and could be good LBO candidates.
4- Use your knowledge from building the practice LBO models and 3statement models to build a complete model with you own assumptions (Growth and margins, recommended capital structure, debt assumptions, entry and exit multiple, fees, etc.) and get it checked out by friends. Then build a small ppm and attach your ppm and model when cold emailing.
First, you will feel like you know what you are talking about much more and hence will feel more confident when networking and interviewing. Also, I feel like when networking it gives people an incentive to write back if your presentation is well done. Also, you might actually find a good investment opportunity that you can profit from if you are willing to buy some shares.
Good Luck!
agree with what everyone else has said...you need to stop advertising yourself as a 3rd year IB analyst. That would only help you lateral into a job as an associate...which you are not qualified to do...this is shooting yourself in the foot...bad on every front. You would be better served to DOWNPLAY your experience...down to the level of a summer internship.
Better to advertise yourself as a former support role, got a job as a 1st year IB analyst at a MM firm, but your current firm does not have the deal flow to provide the work you are looking to do....and you are now looking to lateral into an analyst role at a firm with prestige and deal flow. You essentially have had the same experience as a summer intern. I would suggest going the same route you would asif you just completed a summer internship....and apply for Fall recruiting into the 2017 analyst class (interview now for jobs starting in the 2017 summer). If your last university has career services and has involvement in college recruiting, then go for that. Fall career fairs are happening now.
AFTER trying to go that route (this is where the majority of analyst hires come from), then look on indeed.com for 1st year analyst roles...because thats what you are.
What are the chances of somebody who's 2+ years out of school getting an offer to the analyst program? Banks probably won't even consider candidates with that profile right?
It all depends on how you communicate.
if you goto a university career fair and make a good impression in person, in real life, to the rep from the IB (usually an associate/VP)....then the chances are very good to get a shot at an interview. I've been the rep from the bank at the career fair (Duke)...and people who stood out in a good way got an interview regardless of background. Pretty straightforward.
So are you an investment banking analyst or not?
Last I heard, BB programs are only taking on lateral analysts in certain opportunistic circumstances (e.g. FIG)
Best bet would be to market yourself as a 1st year, and maybe take a step back and lateral into a 1st year EB program (a not-insignificant number of our analysts are from non-traditional lateral backgrounds). Though large cap PE will still be difficult regardless, as they're looking for straight cookie cutter.
Oh, and recruiters are useless. If they don't think they can place you with a minimum of effort, they have no incentive to help you. They're a volume business, and the supply for large and mid cap PE far exceeds the demand.
Yes, I accepted this would be difficult right from the get-go - the question is: is it completely impossible? Should I really just give up at that now?
I moreso meant I was using IB recruiters; I wouldn't be so stupid as to say I'm PE ready now.
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