4/12/11

Lets get some FAQs going on with Financial Leadership Programs. What do people want to know?

Comments (65)

4/12/11

What ones are there (let's get a huge list of them going) and what does it take to get into them.

Pretty women make us BUY beer. Ugly women make us DRINK beer.

Financial Modeling

4/12/11
Al Bundy:

What ones are there (let's get a huge list of them going) and what does it take to get into them.

http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/list-of-ft-f...

4/14/11
Al Bundy:

What ones are there (let's get a huge list of them going) and what does it take to get into them.

https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=0AiKeqvKq1...
Here is a good list to start

4/12/11

Thanks for starting this post! I was wondering if anyone had info on JP Morgan's Finance Associate Leadership Program. Comp, Bonus, Hours etc etc.

http://careers.jpmorganchase.com/career/gradfinana...

4/12/11

To get into these programs, a lot of people have pretty high GPAs.

4/14/11

Those that have completed a FLP - what was your first job after, and what are you currently doing?

For me - FLP at F50, stayed with the company and am doing business development (M&A/Strategy) for one of their divisions.

4/14/11

I am starting at a FLDP at a Fortune 150ish company in July. Would eventually like to get into Corp Development so I think this program might help with that.

4/15/11
nelly0:

I am starting at a FLDP at a Fortune 150ish company in July. Would eventually like to get into Corp Development so I think this program might help with that.

Helped in my case. Make sure you do a rotation in corp/biz development if offered.

4/15/11

For me - FLDP at F500 tech company then joined corporate development after finishing the program.

4/15/11

j-rad, hardvardgrad09,

hows corp development been for both of you? hours, lifestyle, type of work?

4/15/11
alphaSledge:

j-rad, hardvardgrad09,

hows corp development been for both of you? hours, lifestyle, type of work?

I did my last rotation in the group that hired me off-program, so I've been in corp dev for ~8 months. Work is interesting, my group does the M&A for the business I work at, which includes all sub-business unit deals. While we don't originate every target, we do the valuations and lead the due diligence for ~95%. Also, we work on strategy at a higher level than a business unit does; overall business strategy, what markets we find attractive / want to get into, etc..

Hours vary, but I usually come in around 9am and leave by 7pm. Maybe a midnight-1am night every couple of weeks if there's a lot in the pipeline. Very flexible work environment where I am, can leave when I need to if my work is done (no "face time"), and can use all my vacation days.

Pay is nowhere near what harvardgrad08 talked about in his post if I remember correctly (different industries), no bonus (other than small "awards"), and slow salary increase (nothing like IB)

Positions normally go: Analyst -> Sr. Analyst -> Specialist -> Manager -> Director -> VP, although nobody I've seen has ever done that - if you start out as an Analyst, you'll never get past a Manager without having other experience (general management, ops, etc..) under your belt.

Only way to get in at the analyst level is to go through the FLP, at least from what I've seen (almost every analyst I know, regardless of the division, has been an FLP). At the Director / VP level, most are ex-MBB/BB guys. Manager level, mixed bag between internal and external consultants/IB.

Any other questions, let me know and I'd be happy to answer. A lot of similarities between harvardgrad08's Q&A post, so definitely check that out... we are just in different industries in different areas.

4/15/11

Alpha, harvardgrad08 started this thread with a bunch of great information for you to read through: http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/the-other-ro...

"You stop being an asshole when it sucks to be you." -IlliniProgrammer
"Your grammar made me wish I'd been aborted." -happypantsmcgee

4/19/11

Does anyone know if there are FLDPs for MBAs? Or is it usually just for ppl recently out of undergrad?

4/19/11

^Check that one post someone responded to me with. A lot of those programs seem exclusively geared toward MBAs (i.e. MMM)

Pretty women make us BUY beer. Ugly women make us DRINK beer.

4/19/11
Al Bundy:

^Check that one post someone responded to me with. A lot of those programs seem exclusively geared toward MBAs (i.e. MMM)

A lot of companies have both as well.. my company (on that list) has a program for undergrads and another for MBAs, with the undergrad program being much larger.

4/20/11

May I ask where you work, or if you don't wanna disclose that what one needs to get into a corp finance rotation? I've had no luck getting into those so far and I'm starting to get worried now.

Pretty women make us BUY beer. Ugly women make us DRINK beer.

4/20/11
Al Bundy:

May I ask where you work, or if you don't wanna disclose that what one needs to get into a corp finance rotation? I've had no luck getting into those so far and I'm starting to get worried now.

Al, are you a graduating senior?

4/20/11
alphaSledge:
Al Bundy:

May I ask where you work, or if you don't wanna disclose that what one needs to get into a corp finance rotation? I've had no luck getting into those so far and I'm starting to get worried now.

Al, are you a graduating senior?

Nah, I'm a junior. There's a decent chance I will be working at a F25 this summer in another country, but I mostly got that through connections. I'm grateful to be in the fortunate position to have that connection (because otherwise I'd be fucked), but frankly, I really want to earn something on my own, which is why I keep inquiring about these programs.

Pretty women make us BUY beer. Ugly women make us DRINK beer.

4/20/11
Al Bundy:

May I ask where you work, or if you don't wanna disclose that what one needs to get into a corp finance rotation? I've had no luck getting into those so far and I'm starting to get worried now.

I work at a F50 manufacturing company. Since most of these rotational programs are "leadership" programs, I think one of the most important criteria is that you've shown leadership qualities. They want people who are involved in a lot of ECs, but not just a memeber of club xyz. These rotational programs are all highly regarded both internally and externally, so they want people who they see as succeeding in increasing levels of responsibility.

Obviously you need a good GPA and prior internship experience helps tremendously. I don't know of anyone in the program I did that hadn't done at least one internship, and I would say ~60% had done an internship at the company.

The company you got an internship with overseas - do they have a rotational program?

4/20/11
j-rad:
Al Bundy:

May I ask where you work, or if you don't wanna disclose that what one needs to get into a corp finance rotation? I've had no luck getting into those so far and I'm starting to get worried now.

I work at a F50 manufacturing company. Since most of these rotational programs are "leadership" programs, I think one of the most important criteria is that you've shown leadership qualities. They want people who are involved in a lot of ECs, but not just a memeber of club xyz. These rotational programs are all highly regarded both internally and externally, so they want people who they see as succeeding in increasing levels of responsibility.

Obviously you need a good GPA and prior internship experience helps tremendously. I don't know of anyone in the program I did that hadn't done at least one internship, and I would say ~60% had done an internship at the company.

The company you got an internship with overseas - do they have a rotational program?

I haven't got it 100% yet, there's just a good chance as long as HR doesn't deny it/have issues. But it's GE, so they do have the FMP program and even one overseas. I won't be placed into that program (if I do get placed, it will be in "corporate financing" whatever that means), but I'm hoping to leverage this opportunity into FMP because FMP would be my favorite option after MBB/elite consulting firms and I want to work in that country once I graduate.

Pretty women make us BUY beer. Ugly women make us DRINK beer.

4/20/11
Al Bundy:

I haven't got it 100% yet, there's just a good chance as long as HR doesn't deny it/have issues. But it's GE, so they do have the FMP program and even one overseas. I won't be placed into that program (if I do get placed, it will be in "corporate financing" whatever that means), but I'm hoping to leverage this opportunity into FMP because FMP would be my favorite option after MBB/elite consulting firms and I want to work in that country once I graduate.

Just network while you're there and get in touch with anyone related to FMP recruiting. I know a few people currently in that program, and all were prior interns (most were FMP interns I believe) at GE. I'm sure recommendations from your supervisor will help out, even though you're not in an FMP-related internship.

Financial Modeling

4/20/11

Leading economist in the US market claims that the US stock market has the potential to rise over 50% in the next couple of years. He recommends buying options, or to be fully invested in stocks but buy protection through out of the money put options, for example S&P puts.

4/20/11
Tamar:

Leading economist in the US market claims that the US stock market has the potential to rise over 50% in the next couple of years. He recommends buying options, or to be fully invested in stocks but buy protection through out of the money put options, for example S&P puts.

Die in a fire.

If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford

4/20/11

Hey MrReagan8, I'm sorry I don't know much about a lateral move in your career field. I myself worked in AM for four years and am heading back to b-school and am exploring these leadership development programs in different industries. Can you tell me a little bit more about how your program worked? I.e., what opportunities exist for you once you have "graduated" the program and how you get placed? Is it the type of atmosphere where they are looking to groom you into a long-term leader or are they looking for people to move on? Thank you for your advice in advance...

Best Response
4/20/11

Financial Rotational Leadership Programs (Originally Posted: 10/13/2007)

Hey guys,

I was hoping to gather some information on financial rotational programs on behalf of a friend of mine. Also, any specific information on the rotational programs of Raytheon, Proctor & Gamble, Thermo Fisher Scientific, and EMC would be helpful.

As of right now, I have very little knowledge of the programs. If anyone has any insight on the following, please share.

1 - Are these programs typically four, 6-month stays in different divisions. If so, is your location changed each time. Do you get to choose which location you are most interested in?

2 - What are the typical hours? Not compared to banking, but compared to your normal 9-5 job.

3 - Is there a classroom type training element, or is it just a learn on the job experience where you are given above average responsibilities?

4 - What happens at the completion of the program? Are you given the opportunity to choose a division or just placed somewhere? What is the typically career progression of someone who chooses this path assuming s/he wishes to remain with the company? Does this path typically involve B-School?

5 - What are the usual questions asked in interviews for these programs (aka: the equivalent of the "why investment banking and why our firm" questions)? What are the common qualities looked for in these programs?

If anyone has any experience, I'd love to hear about it. Also, it would be even more helpful if you could share your sources.

Thanks guys.

CompBanker

4/20/11

Can tell you a bit about EMC:

EMC is a 3 year program if you get into the rotational. You work for 3 different units based on your interests. The first two years you are given multiple classes in finance, many of them run by guys from Babson and even HBS. It's considered a finishing school and you get a certificate at the end so there is definitely an educational experience.

Hours vary; some weeks you only have 40 hours, others 50-55. Nothing remotely as bad as banking, and most of them are outside of cities so the cost of living is much better too. At the end of the 3 years, you are given the chance to stay in one of your rotationals or you can move to another division; lots of them at EMC move to CorpDev or a management role of a business unit. If you want to go to b-school, EMC is really helpful; they pay a good chunk of courses if you do it at night and they give you a sabbatical if you wish to do it over a year or two straight. Most kids go to BC, Babson, and HBS.

As far as the interviews go, they really do look for leadership roles. They want you to be a go-getter and be resolute in your career plans. Also, know what the company does; don't just go in there thinking "oh this is a F500 firm that has a rotational; I can learn a bunch of different angles of a big company." Know what is special about EMC/Raytheon/GE and what about their company is unique.

Also, pay is pretty on par with a Big 4 firm. Sign on bonus of $3-5k, ~$55-60k, and for the top performers there are usually stock issues/options for end of year bonuses. Given how EMC's stock rose from $14 to $21 since December '06, that can be a pretty lucrative bonus.

4/20/11

Gomes, I am extremely appreciative. Thanks for the in-depth response.

CompBanker

4/20/11

It's been a while since I last got detailed info on P&G, so that my info with grain of salt.

  1. P&G is not rotational in the sense that you move around. Instead, you are attached to a specific brand (i.e. Tide, global beauty, etc) or with a division (i.e. business intelligence). Since P&G is primarily based in Cincinnati, most all assignments are going to be there. The length of assignments depends, since as an analyst you "request" projects, so the duration can vary. (It's been awhile since I talked to P&G people about the financial analyst role, so this info could be a bit inaccurate.)
  2. Hours aren't bad, most people I talked to said hours are reasonable. P&G is really big on their "cult"ure, so hours tend to be very reasonable and work-life balance is stressed.
  3. Don't recall any classroom component.
  4. P&G makes you choose one of two career paths at a certain point, the up or out route (with more senior roles) or the stable role with no up or out. So if you are finance, you will probably move up the finance ladder, analyst->manager, etc, though I am not familiar with the titles. Think you can choose which division. No B-School is required.
  5. Interviews mainly look for behavioral traits, lots of leadership stuff. Strong emphasis on fit. There is an online personality assessment to gauge fit. No comparison to banking whatsoever.

Pay is decent for Cinci, latest package was 55k plus some bonus and stock (nothing significant.)

4/20/11

I worked with some ex-PnG people, one guy went through the program up north here. Agreed there is no rotation you start in a general analyst role, or specific areas and based on merit in 2-3 years move up. As explained above he was forced into the "up or out too" after his 2-3 year stint, the guy stayed and ran some major Canadian divisons but once you hit "director level" everything is in Cinncinati, they told him he could not move up further unless he moved to Cinncinati, which is when he left to another CPG where I interned.

Though his friends who left the Canadian office and toke the move to Cinncinati moved up very fast the ladder, and now run very large regions of the "Evil Empire".

The hours are 45-55, and when you hit manager could get 60+ around key times of the year, like "AOP planning finalization". But if you work 60 some weeks, you can get away with working 30 the next, and alot of people working from "home".

All the CPG firms are pushing "Work-Life Balance" largely now. Oh yah and once you hit manager, some people get away with 5 weeks vacation.

4/20/11

This is great information guys, exactly what I was looking for. Anyone have any info specific to Raytheon ?

CompBanker

4/20/11

It sounds like you should go through the program manager if you don't want to rock the boat. I have zero experience with this though

"You stop being an asshole when it sucks to be you." -IlliniProgrammer
"Your grammar made me wish I'd been aborted." -happypantsmcgee

4/20/11

I would go through the FLDP program manager first. He may find out about it if you go directly to the assignment manager and he specifically said to go through him first. You could say something like "I'm really interested in this job because of the opportunity to work with X and development opportunities from being involved in Y. I'd like to reach out to the manager there with your approval." Definitely make it about the job and development opportunities. "I want his job because its on the coast in Southern California" probably wouldn't help your case. There's probably a reason it's inactive but never hurts to ask.

4/20/11

Go through the assignment manager first. They are a pain but can screw you if you try to loop them out.

4/20/11

Two thoughts here. First, for better or worse, the program manager holds your life in their hands. They have the final say in your rotations, they usually have special projects they can choose who to task, and they will often help you find your first post program job. So if you upset them, it can have negative consequences. But, that said, they often tend to just tell you things like "it is what it is" when it comes to things like rotations. So, they may not even look at the possibility of you activating this old rotation. But if you reach out and the manager needs the help, they might push the program manager to get a rotation again. So it could work out in your favor. But the odds of that happening are low, so weigh your options wisely.

4/20/11

AllDay_028:
But the odds of that happening are low, so weigh your options wisely.

Are there ways to get in good with the rotation manager? Is it considered taboo to try and go out with them for dinner/drinks to build rapport? That's doable on Wall Street, curious as to how fraternization outside of work is for F500s. I have no doubt it depends on the firm/person, just interested in your experience.

"You stop being an asshole when it sucks to be you." -IlliniProgrammer
"Your grammar made me wish I'd been aborted." -happypantsmcgee

4/20/11

D M:
AllDay_028:
But the odds of that happening are low, so weigh your options wisely.

Are there ways to get in good with the rotation manager? Is it considered taboo to try and go out with them for dinner/drinks to build rapport? That's doable on Wall Street, curious as to how fraternization outside of work is for F500s. I have no doubt it depends on the firm/person, just interested in your experience.


We fraternize a decent amount outside of work here. The program manager at my company is a pretty big drinker and we will do happy hour (also got her to play flip cup with us at a company outing). But, when she goes out everyone tends to go out so it doesn't really give you a leg up. I will say, I have been in the good graces with her though because i'm the "funny guy" of the group. Whereas some of the more quiet people have definitely gotten a little bit of a rap for that.
4/20/11

Happy to share my experience in a FLP and answer any questions... maybe start a thread in one of the main forums (Other Road) and those that are in/have been through one of these programs can comment on any questions asked?

4/20/11

That would be great. My question is how would one best position themselves for an interview? My goal is to get into one of these programs, but I don't have the best credentials. I graduated with a 3.0 from a major state university(such as Alabama or Ohio State). I graduated with no internships but I am currently working as an intern at a hedge fund and applying to programs in the fall. What else can I do to stand out?

4/20/11

Hi Ken,

Do you have contacts or networks who are currently in financial leadership programs? Your best bet is to reach out to them, and have them vouch for you. Do you have other things on your resume that help stand you out? Perhaps volunteer experiences?

4/20/11

Unfortunately I do not know any people right now in the programs, but I can network and see what comes up. But I have had various volunteer experiences through my fraternity. In your opinion would this be enough to get an interview, or would a masters in finance help?

Thank you for your help by the way.

4/20/11

Yes, definitely find ways you can network with people are or have been in FLP programs. utilize your school's career center as well as lInkedin.

4/20/11

I utilized my career center and have an interview on Tuesday, can't wait.

4/20/11

nah sorry... i saw that post though and it got me thinking about F500... its not glamorous on this board, but having job > not having a job any day of the week

looking for that pick-me-up to power through an all-nighter?
4/20/11

ok, ok, you guilted me into digging into all of the old files on my computer. on the other hand, wso has been a great source of information throughout my internship/career searches, so i'm happy to be able to provide some (hopefully) useful info myself.

the following google spreadsheet below is a list of all (or most) of the programs i applied to for full-time positions:

https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AiKeqvKq1...
it's far from including every company i found that had such a program, and it also includes some number of non-fldp-type positions, but it should give you somewhere to start from at least.

best of luck,

dublin

4/20/11

Just don't do GE FMP. Many people here were disappointed with it. Your probably better off getting a BO or MO role at a BB. This will help tremendously with B-School (MBA) prospects.

"It's very easy to have too many goals and be overwhelmed by them... The trick is to find the one thing you can focus on that represents every other single thing you want in life." -- @"Edmundo Braverman"

4/20/11

If you don't go to an IB, look for jobs at tech companies. They tend to pay well. Consulting is also good in terms of B-School prospects, and it offers good general work experience.

"It's very easy to have too many goals and be overwhelmed by them... The trick is to find the one thing you can focus on that represents every other single thing you want in life." -- @"Edmundo Braverman"

4/20/11

Are we talking about the bigger tech companies like Microsoft and Cisco? Or small tech firms. What value can I add to their company as a finance major?

"It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change." - Charles Darwin

4/20/11

Any FLDP are good, except for the ones at GE, UTC, Traveler's, 3M, IBM

4/20/11

Why not those programs? They're often said to be highly sought after and valued. My school is all about promoting those programs.

"It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change." - Charles Darwin

4/20/11

what's so bad about GE's finance program? curious

4/20/11

i would disagree with the above posts. based on my exp with f50 fldp programs, assuming they're well structured, they tend to invest a lot in your development. as far as i understand bschool prospects are pretty good too though sponsorship tends to vary from one firm to another. personally, i chose consulting out of undergrad since the f50 firm (and true of most fldp programs) valued accounting and cpa too highly and found the tasks too mundane for my tastes. check out the following thread for more info - it should help

http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/corporate-fi...

4/20/11

also interested

4/20/11

i have a few friends that went from the GE to GS IBD and IMD

also a handful that finished their 2-3 years in that FLP program and went to get their MBA from Wharton right after

not sure about UTX or others though

4/20/11

RJ's rotational program (OPTIONS Program) funnels a lot of kids into its ER and IB divisions. Everybody that I know who has gone through it has gotten solid jobs coming out (all within RJ though).

4/20/11

Does anyone happen to know how much RJ's OPTIONS Program pays? Do they offer any type of signing bonus? I've researched everywhere and can't find anything on this topic.

4/20/11

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