FT recruiting is completely fucked
This is sort of a rant but also looking for advice . . .
Currently working remotely at a small specialist boutique, but there are a few pretty big shot MDs so the firm has solid deal flow. However, because of the size of the firm, they don't hire a lot of analysts, and when I accepted the SA here I was aware that there was a good chance I didn't get a return offer. They made it clear I would get great experience over the summer and, even if there wasn't a FT seat for me, I would have a lot of options at bigger banks for recruiting (some former SAs landed at top EBs). Recently, I was told that no interns would be receiving FT offers due to COVID, so we should all start looking for jobs. The firm made it clear they felt bad about this and would provide stellar references to any job we interviewed for, and nearly all their deals have dried up currently, so I get it. I also did work on a few live processes this summer, so I could definitely talk about my experience in an interview and I know my technicals cold.
Anyway, I've currently been networking my ass off for FT jobs. I go to a target and had a decent list of contacts from SA recruiting that I've been in touch with. In short, it sounds like everything is completely fucked for me. At top BBs like GS and JPM, they have posted a full time app but I spoke to contacts at both banks and it sounds like spots are going to be nearly impossible to come by (especially for non-diversity). At other BBs, everyone is giving non-committal answers like 'reach back out after we give interns offers', but always heavily imply that things will be nearly impossible. At one BB, an associate gave me the whole 'reach out in mid-August' line, but then at the end of the call told me "speaking completely off the record" that intern return offer rates would be higher than normal due to the online internship program, and thus FT slots were going to be completely non-existent.
It's the same story at EBs. It's the same story at MMs. I've spoken to people at 24 different banks and I've yet to receive a single answer with any optimism. Everyone is cutting hiring and is already overstaffed with interns, and they all have absolutely no interest in interviewing even more candidates when they already need to be making tough decisions with their current SAs. I've tried to move further into smaller, less prestigious shops because I thought that would be easier, but from those conversations it sounds like smaller places are getting even more boned by the COVID economy and absolutely do not plan on doing any hiring.
I've looked at a few buy side shops, but the only PE firms that I've seen running processes are top MFs that are ultra competitive so haven't had luck there yet.
Anyone have feedback on where to look? Do I have any chance of landing an IB gig at a BB/EB/MM? Anyone know of any banks that might be hiring? I know there are a bunch of threads discussing specific FT opportunities, but haven't yet seen a broader discussion about if there will be a recruiting process at all this year.
Don’t give up. I didn’t get a return offer due to headcount last year (not in IB but finance) and after busting my ass, I got into an EB super late into the process (Late Jan). Spots will open up, just network network network.
appreciate the positivity- can I ask how you got into that EB process? Did you just stay in touch with people at the bank, and then something weird happened, a seat opened, and they went to you because someone referred you? Or did they run an open process (posted application online)?
Talked to an MD than a spot opened up a week later. He liked me for whatever reason and passed my resume to HR. Went right to the superday and killed it. Got offer and accepted the next day.
dang man sorry to hear that. Is this FTP? your description matches up with what ive heard about them. If so, I think you can try and take a crack at fig shops as FTP is well respected in those circles
FTP has been having solid deal flow recently based on the big transactions theyve been announcing so I dont think the OP is there.
nah, not FTP. its a much smaller shop (3 MDs, just a handful of mid-level people) but generally focused on tech. Do a lot of stuff with VC backed funding, growth equity fundraising, etc and all that has completely stopped
Take a look at the under-the-radar boutiques like DBO, Ducera, USA, M Klein, Dyal, and even FTP. These firms are growing and have irregular / late processes. Assuming you have a strong target background, these firms should be more than willing to give you a look. Try to talk to more senior level folks who have the political capital to "open" up a spot for you.
I want to reiterate the other comments and encourage you to keep grinding. It's definitely a frustrating position to be in but I'm sure you'll manage to land something before graduation, especially given your strong school/work experience. I was in a similar situation last year and didn't manage to land an offer until November.
Just browsing my school's OCR, it looks like the following boutiques (VCP, Equiteq, Avalon) are looking for FT. They're small but might be a good place to start.
most BBs have given all their interns FT offers...which means fewer (if any) FT offers for non-returning interns...its just a bad season...try again next year
Pretty sure Citi is the only BB that has given all interns FT offers
German people are stereotyped as very hard working. This comment was made in jest. By the way, you have clearly never met German IB hardos, truly something to behold.
Other BBs have also given full return offer rates. Not in an official announcement like Citi, but just in practice for the reason OP has mentioned-- hard to cut people from virtual internship. I know my BB has.
That's rough bro and everything about the hiring environment you said is on point. FT recruiting is notoriously stupid and has been for a decade. Most of the time FT guys squeak their way through large international banks trying to build out platforms or by catching a seat in a less desirable group at a more established shop. So, while not glamorous, this is still probably your best option. My advice is don't pass on the Euro/J banks. They are big shops with deep pockets that make nonsensical headcount decisions in the US. The experience will be different than what you're doing now (e.g. bureaucratic, balance sheet/bank product focused, international companies) and is much better than nothing. - corporate strat gigs are also not the worst move - consulting does a lot of FT hiring. I don't know anything about the process but might be worth a look.
Other advice: Wouldn't get upset with your contacts. Chances are everything they are hearing from HR is tentative, and they don't want to get your hopes up just to let them down a few days later. Doesn't sound like you are, but just a reminder.
Keep making moves.
Can you expand on some of the consulting firms you are talking about?
Is it similar for consulting FT recruiting?
I know a guy who started his own M&A shop....but it’s very small. He may be able to hire one analyst.
Similar with me, interned at a large lower MM firm this summer that’s freezing their FT hiring and have been busting my ass trying to network my way into another firm. From the shops I’ve spoken with (think large MMs), a lot are freezing their FT hiring as of now but likely will have off-cycle recruiting once the uncertainty of COVID’s longevity recedes. Keep your chin up and don’t beat yourself up if you don’t have any offers by October
I'm interning at a super small M&A shop and do have a return offer, but the firm is pretty awful (they spend like 95% of the time pitching and do maybe one or two deals a year). I also hate all the people I work with and there is a terrible culture. Was planning on trying to lateral during FT recruiting before COVID hit, but not so sure now.
I have a return offer that expires at the end of August- should I just give up on FT recruiting? Everyone on this thread is implying that things might not get going until the middle of the year, which unfortunately doesn't work with my return offer timeline. I really do not want to go back to this bank full time, but not sure I have a way out of this.
Take it. Having IB on your resume is a great first gig out of school and given that the environment, nothing is stopping you from a lateral move after a year assuming things (hopefully) are recovering by then
Regardless, most banks did not do a ton of FT recruiting regardless, so I’m not sure how much it’ll actually affect you. I would wager that firms that traditionally do do a lot of full-time recruiting will probably still continue to do so (example - Qatalyst always hires a few analysts FT and has a very structured process; MS Menlo always hires significantly FT; Evercore usually has a very structured FT process; all are despite high return rates)
Keep grinding, and be open to opportunities beyond just large / prestigious NY firms
Keep grinding
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