Full Time / Internship

You're going to have a very difficult time, but you already know that...

What's with wanting to graduate early? Believe me, it's MUCH harder to get employed through non-campus recruiting (even F500) if you are still a student you can use those great outlets. Even the shitest of shittiest schools have outfits that will find you a job...

Don't think IB though, think anything. You SHOULD have come up with something though dude, whether that be any F500, general company, or anywhere... Finishing early without shit experience is going to put a tremendous amount of pressure for you to either go straight back to school as in law school or to go study in a foreign country for a 1 year masters or something.. start looking now.

by the way, business degrees without internships to me look way worse than a Liberal ARts degree....

just my 2 cents.

Yeah, I know graduating early is not always the best option. The only reason I would be doing it is because I couldn't land anything this summer (applied for most of the BB and bigger boutiques in NYC. I think only like 1 kid out of my class got into an IBD of a BB) and do not want to be a bum all summer. A combination of things are making it difficult to do anything this summer (location, school, experience) and going to a school that only employers in NY seem to have heard of makes it harder over here in the west. Another reason is because I am sick of having a full courseload with 2 part time jobs to pay through school (in addition to loans).

The only other option I have, which I do not really want to go through with, is to change my major to financial engineering (currently just a Finance major) which would delay my date by a year, but is it really worth doing that? I am curious because would employers looking to hire interns view me differently because I already graduated? Like I mentioned before, if given a chance, I would take an internship (after I graduate) if it would help secure a FT offer later.

Thanks for the input bryan1, I agree with what you say about getting experience, but I truly want to get into Ibanking. I know everyone in these forums probably wants the same thing but how can any experience help that much. For example, I met with northwestern mutual financial network and they offered me a summer internship selling insurance or something like that in which everyone here told me it was crap and probably would have a negative impact on my future in getting into IB.

I know everyone suggests networking and alumni, but the alumni in my school don't seem to care at all. Neither me or any of my fellow friends who have tried that route get any response. As for networking, I am constantly trying to meet more people and now have some contacts, although not too many ones yet that can help me out. In addition to my summer classes here, I am currently teaching myself corporate (thanks to good ol' damodoran)in preparation for my actual corporate class next semester.

So I guess I was right in thinking that a FT offer with no relevant experience will be next to impossible. So is it unheard of for a graduate to be looking for an internship rather than a FT offer? Do banks even allow for non undergrads to apply for intern positions?

you could go through full time recruiting, if nothing comes up then push your graduation back a semester, then get do internship recruiting in jan, then you would hopefully get an offer. take a couple blow of classes the following semester, then go to europe for a few months or start work early.

when and how do you do apply for ft? sorry but the only thing I know of is the summer analyst/intern recruiting. I am not really aware at all of FT info. Thanks again.

Ok, at least it's summer so you can think this through, it's not like it's August right now.

Lucky for you.

Think about it like this, get a job doing something business related. Apply to Fortune 500 companies, apply to boutiques, do a PWM (your family must have friend who can get this for you). Maybe go work at a known company doing some "Business Analyst" internship. Pretend like you just started everything late. Instead of the Freshman Summer, Soph Summer, Junior Summer... throw that shit out the window.

Start to think about how to make your degree credible by thinking of a variety of business internship opportunities: I would see a guy with say

Arizona State Univ: BBA Accounting/Finance

Sophomore Intern: Create something here, maybe something you already did, traveled Europe, some bullshit, volunteer work, golf instructor, some garbage

Junior Intern: Compaq Computer Manufacturing Divison

Senion Intern: Buttfocker Investment Banking Boutique

Then, leverage that into a real job, whether that be IB related or not I don't give a shit, or do the LSE Msc Accy/Finance, or maybe the one at Vandy, apply to the one at Princeton, UC Berk...

but...even if you do the masters, you've got to have had a few experiences...see the two example ones i noted above...

Hopefully, you understand my logic and thought process behind all the shiznit I'm saying.

My process was

Yr 2 Worked in College-Accounting Yr 3 Worked in College-Finance Intern Leverage to FT Finish COllege--begin FT

you apply online in the fall if your not a target...good luck?

FT apps are usually done sep/aug internship apps are usually nov-jan

someone correct me if i'm wrong.

try to get an internship at an HF in CA...im sure you have more options for that then IB where your located...just an idea..

lol sorry to let you down bryan1 but I do get exactly what you mean. I meant besides online apps. From what I hear very little people actually get far when just going through the online system. But thanks for the update. I never considered going with the masters route and I will definitely look into the getting to where your outline points towards.

Tell them you'll start 7AM and read the fucking instructions manual to that printer. They can't have that many copies for you to make, and if you have any motivation to succeed, you will find opportunities to add value. Going to some community college to learn about how to balance your checkbook is a utter waste of time. Take what you are given and turn it into gold. Without any type of work experience and coming from a non-target, who is going to hire you? You could probably do an internship with Burger King.

It's too late to do start looking for a summer internship now. Any somewhere in the universe of respectable bank will already have filled spots with candidates, and the type of IB boutiques you'll join will have you doing the same thing as if in PWM, making copies.

Hey albatrosslee, I think you might have misunderstood what i meant about the glorified copy assistant. I meant the guy was actually really nice. He sat me down and talked to me about where I wanted to go. He said that he would more than willingly give me a position, but that it would have no relevance at all and I would basically just make copies. He referred me some places that would help me better (experience wise) but they had already filled up for the summer recently. He mentioned he would more than willingly take me, since I was "cheap labor" for the summer, but he strongly suggested I find something better, which I obviously can't over here. I am actually taking my general education requirements for our school of management at my local cc. (calc, a writing and a history course) I just have to get rid of them in order to graduate. Also, I meant internships for next year. After I graduate in the spring of 08, I wouldn't mind interning for the summer and/or fall and hopefully get a FT offer afterwards. Hopefully that clears it up, thanks for the suggestions though.

Take the work at MS.

Here's how it could work:

Copy that paper like no one has before. Become collating master. Come in early, leave late. OWN that machine and all other menial tasks. Prove to your boss that you'll work your arse off.

Then, switch your major like you said and extend your time in college to give yourself another summer (if you can afford it financially).

If you impressed your boss enough, I'm sure he'd put in a decent word for you in January for a SA inteview with MS in NYC.

I'd say that's your best hope. Do that, get a 4.0 this fall, pick up a part-time internship at school, and network your butt off.

yeah, I do not really mind what the job would be, one of my 2 jobs at school is as an administrative assistant and I am used to the mindless job tasks, including copying. The only concern I had was whether that kind of experience would help. The only way I see it helping is the name (MS) and perhaps networking. When I add it to my resume, I could only fluff it up so much without adding complete bs, and wouldn't they immediately see my job functions were nothing but copying and answering phones? But hey, if they don't mind that then by all means I will call them back.

Bullshit experience > No Experience

I love how completely disparaging a lot of the people are on this board and some of them I am sure don't do much with finance themselves. I would definately take the job "photocopying" at MS because being in that atmosphere can provide the possibility to pick up a lot more than photocopying. It all depends on how YOU leverage the work than how much they need you or have you doing. If the guy is nice, you show enthusiasm and dedication, you go above and beyond what your asked to do and prove that you want to learn and work on this, than he might help you with what you want to achieve. I have seen a lot of people not take on these "internships" because they are menial when in fact 90% of internships or small jobs are menial almost always. Extend your college time to give yourself a good venue into applying again into the banking arena. For banking, it still is very much a recruit from targets and semi-target industries, but you can use your connection from working at MS to try and get an internship for the next summer. When you do not go to a target your only way to get a job is to be extremely outstanding or have a connection. Again it will depend on how positive you are, how much you want to do it, and how much you use certain things to your advantage. I think its obvious though that you should do the copying at MS since you have little to lose and possibly something to gain from it if you work at it.

Thanks for the words of encouragement. As I mentioned before, I do not mind at all doing the worst of worst jobs, as long as it can help me somehow. I didn't really see it the way you put it because the guy I met with basically described himself (and his branch) as suggesting securities to purchase to their clients (mostly old rich people here) and he was really nice in trying to see what I wanted to do.

We talked for about 30 minutes, mostly not really your typical interview questions. More along the lines of what kind of career path I wanted to pursue. And I don't know if I was just taking it the wrong way, but he almost sounded like he didn't want to hire me, he actually said "I don't think this is what you want to do (as in a non IBD branch)." However, I was persistent and asked whether they could hire me, even though the work would be menial. He agreed and mentioned to give him a call in a week if I couldn't get anything else. (He kept referring to interns as cheap labor, and how great it was, lol) I will definitely give them a call soon and see if the position is still available. I suppose the networking opportunities might work out in the end. Good Idea!

also, I don't think I mentioned I would be comfortable on both coasts, as in NYC and LA/SF. Is it ok to apply for internships and FT in multiple locations? From what I hear position wise, its best to focus on what you want rather than apply for multiple openings, but would that apply to location as well?

Haha, your neighborhood MS broker is not going to carry any clout whatsoever when it comes to talking with NY. Like I said earlier, the experience is what you make it. Hell, who knows, maybe you are a stud when it comes to bringing in accounts and end up earning 150k while only working 40 hour weeks.

lol thanks albatrosslee. As always, your input is appreciated, and whether I'm good at bringing in accounts or not, I will still try to get into IB. Although I will agree with you on the regional branch not really having that great of a experience, but maybe I might luck out and meet some people. (that is if they still have an opening)

Local PWM offices might help. Kid at my school interned at a local branch for two years, then ended up at their IBD in NY. Pretty sure someone from the local office helped set it up for him.

Thanks for the glimmer of hope freeloader. =)

anyone have any suggestions about applying strictly to one location or not?