Have your ever met a socialist or leftist in finance or consulting? I'm a socialist who's interested in pursuing one of the two.
Anyway, I think I'd be fine personally working in finance as long as the work is interesting. But I don't know if I'd be shut out of higher paying positions just for my beliefs. But if a lot of people on the street are like this, I'd probably be shut out of higher level positions, just because I might seem like a radical. Building connections is also important, so I don't know if people would be turned off by my beliefs.
Working in finance or consulting, do you know any leftists? What sort of treatment have they had from others there? Has their advancement been stifled by their beliefs?
Have you ever met a socialist or leftist on the street? Not that people would tell you randomly, but once you get to know someone well you generally know about their political beliefs.
Well, you've certainly come to the right place...
Haha well, also asked reddit
Pretty sure VENEZUELA is the right place to ask
I'm no fan of socialism, but I am a fan of honest good faith discussion. Why is Venezuela always cited as the standard right-wing response to anyone left of center, and never Norway, Denmark, or Finland? Venezuela is not socialist, it has a populist and totalitarian government trying to implant a communist constitution which has resulted in failed-state capitalism.
you're not a socialist bro. you're just a white boy who took some philosophy electives
LMAOOO THIS
my ex-gf was a fucking super finance hardess until she attended NYU started smoking weed and minored in philosophy. recently saw she joined a socialist Brooklyn club lmao. If it wasn't for her strong desire to join ibanking i would have been a police officer.
Haha well, both of those are innacurate. I'm not white, all the philosophy I've read was done independently, and most of my academics in high school was hard sciences/math and economics.
Considering so much of the industry comes from elite schools, I thought they'd probably be mostly liberal and not care much for trivialities like race.
You already have a large leg up to getting in these gigs.
Socialist--ahh yes, the ideology that believes capitalism encourages us to be savages towards one another, as we compete in the labor force. WRONG. I'm sure your liberal Ivy professors who've never been in the workforce will teach you this idea, so you'll do fine at Brown. But, you may end up deciding to be a social worker or go to law school, because you'll find that competition is actually savage on wall street. If you don't like it, you should just move on now. :)
Brown isn't that left in terms of politics for the ivies. Columbia is much more to the left. Either way, I don't care what sort of dogma my profs teach me, I know its dogma. If I'd gone to Dartmouth instead of Brown, I'd just be taught whatever crazy libertarian theory Meir Kohn has rather than Keynesian economics.
Also, if you've actually gone to college, you know that "super atheistic communist profs" stereotype is a complete strawman.
Maybe, but almost all professors I had and have encountered are hardcore leftists. I'd say like 90%. One of my econ professors was an Austrian and taught Ayn Rand and then one of the other ones actually talked shit about him to me because of it.
EDIT: And have you gone to college? sounds like you're still pondering what school to pick. You'll find out. Most profs are super liberal. It's in their nature. They like logic and to control, but capitalism tends to be more chaotic, especially in a natural free market system.
Kid that hasn't even begun college sets up his own strawman in an attempt to strawman an opposing argument, effectively using his fallacious argument against himself. How socialist of you.
Furthermore, you don't need to attend college to realize and understand the far-left-leaning nature of most universities in the U.S.; damning evidence of this fact is readily available all over the place.
Savagery is inherent in humans. Got nothing to do with Capitalism. Capitalism facilitates the nicest kind of savagery. Check out the savagery that happens under Socialist regimes. Oh no, a buyout! Savagery! How about labor camps, homie? That better?
I mean capitalism and savagery are pretty similar. That's why it works. The planners will never do a good enough job, because they are just savage humans too at the end of the day.
lol just move to Canada bro, you'll fit in much more over there. Ask them how they like their healthcare too... hint: they come to the US to get operations done instead of waiting a year in Canada.
All the ones that can actually afford to do so for operations that they don’t want to have to wait a year for. I personally know of some as I played hockey with Canadians. their healthcare is a joke.
I know of an entire team that was put together by people meeting each other at burning man (hardcore "burners", too)...so anything's possible. Now for a more serious answer...
You may be a good fit for a consulting/finance/investing role where maximizing returns (monetary that is) isn't necessarily the explicit end goal. Fortunately, such fields exist. Check economic consulting, especially in government. You may also be interested in non-profit investing, socially responsible investing, or social impact investing.
Now as for the people, it's hard for me to say because I don't know exactly where your definition of "leftist" lies on the political spectrum. But there are certainly democrats and liberals in every corner of finance, look at the lists of presidential candidate backers for reference.
That said, my guess is people in consulting are a little more to the left than in finance based on the nature of the two industries. Some areas (both finance and consulting) may also be weighted more to the left just given the overall culture of the sector they're involved in (renewable energy, tech, etc.). And as a general rule of thumb smaller companies tend to be less formal and you're more likely to find a culture or individual that "breaks the mold" so to speak (see burning man reference).
that would make for a great story
useful advice
I'm in RE finance so I can't give you an internal perspective. But I feel I got a good sense myself in college just from googling around, attending recruiting events, and talking to alumni in the field.
If you're like me and your leftist views let you see that the world is fucked up, but you’re also super competitive and don’t feel any strong personal responsibility to fix it, then as long as you generally avoid talking politics, are careful to be extremely polite when you do, and are able to keep your mouth shut and keep decent working relationships with people when they occasionally say some repugnant/ignorant shit (e.g. casual racism, misogyny, homophobia and transphobia) your political views shouldn’t matter all that much if you can deal with the cognitive dissonance around the fact that some small percentage of every dollar you bring in for the company will probably go to lobbying for policies and politicians that will actively contribute to making the world shittier. Now unless you manage to find some crazy niche, being non-white and non-hetero on top of politically leftist will probably make it somewhat harder to succeed (especially difficult since you want to do soft skill stuff where at least at first, beyond a baseline acceptability, succeeding is more about fitting in than your ability and the actual work you do) since you’ll just have less in common with the people around you, but it’s not insurmountable if you make the effort and can deal with feeling a bit like you’re wearing a mask all the time at work, without too much guilt about possibly betraying your identities. Having, or being able to feign having, basic interests like sports, getting fucked up (being low key about it of course), popular tv shows, and movies will definitely help, just make sure you learn/don’t forget how to project that you’re “one of the good ones” since at college you’ll probably be able to surround yourself with people who generally see you for who you are/want to be, but in the working world you’ll probably have to deal with the fact that, at least at first, most people will see you as a stereotype. Also, I should add, that a lot of the moral qualms and fit issues will follow you in almost any traditionally competitive field you want to enter so it’s not necessarily a knock against the fields you mentioned that you’ll have to deal with this shit.
Thank you, William Faulkner.
interesting
Go work for a quant hedge fund :)
PS. It's funny how the Overton Window shifted over the recent past. When I first came to the US some 30 years ago, I was definitely a "conservative", free markets and all that shit. My views have barely changed, but now I am a "liberal". Go figure.
Who knew the poke and smoke what u want party would be emerging out of the ashes of tipper gores explicit lyrics tight ass club
1). You really shouldn’t be talking about politics at work, so I don’t really know how people would know you’re a hard core leftist/socialist.
2). If you believe in socialism, why are you trying to get a high paying job? That indicates to me that you’re not really a strong believer, since individually you are trying to maximize your income. People acting in their own economic interest is basically the definition of a capitalist.
3). Have you ever worked before? Many people who get their first paycheck and see it 30%+ less because of taxes start changing their mind about how they feel about ‘fair share’ real quick.
Congrats. You want a trophy or something? Do you also have a micro-cock? Are you balding too? Care to list any further meaningless surface-level labels of yourself that no one with half a brain gives a fuck about?
You're a self-proclaimed socialist, so yeah, I suppose self-righteous, naive ignoramus would be a better descriptor. Let me guess, you would be one of the card-carrying members that tells people what to do, right?
This probably explains why you hold such retarded views. If you or your shut-in insufferable friends had even a cursory knowledge of world history or economics, you wouldn't be self-proclaimed socialists (unless of course you're a malevolent scumbag who actually enjoys the idea of mass death). I'm going to take a wild guess that you post a lot on FaceBook, constantly seeking external validation from people who are equally as ignorant as yourself.
If you're a true socialist, why are you attending college? Why don't you instead give that money to people who are impoverished? Why don't you sell the device with which you've posted this drivel and give the money to someone less fortunate? Oh, I forgot, because you're a smaht wittle boy prodigy that's going to change da woyld for da betta wif socialism, right?
Hopefully, if only for your own sake, you grow up sometime soon.
Did I just have a stroke or is this person posting with one profile, and replying with another?
you and me both. does this guy have a WSO burner account or did he change his name mid thread?
Changed my username so I dont get doxxed or smth lol
You guys need to lay off this kid, Bernie can still win.
hi, some kind of socialist here.
my economic philosophy is that public utilities should be truly publicly owned, and public utilities should offer many services, including basic banking and insurance for individuals and small business, as well as finance public goods like infrastructure projects.
dont let all the ayn rand boys get you down, the finance of the future is going to have to come terms with the notion of a commons, whether creative, real or securitized.
A hedge fund employee calling herself "some kind of socialist." One of the more hilarious things I've ever read on this forum.
Vague, nondescript childish verbiage of "how things should be." Truly insightful and inspiring "economic philosophy."
"Everyone who voices their opposition to socialist idealogues is an Ayn Rand worshipper. xDDD"
I bet you actually believe that you could win a debate against Milton Friedman (RIP) or Thomas Sowell.
I'm giving you and Dennis Miller 3 days to think of a clever response.
Free Mulligan.
i agree, the commons is the future. it has to be or the market will eat itself alive. Good to see some people agree with me, what do you think of my initial questions/what I should do?
You're going to limit how far you can go yourself if you pursue a career that goes against your fundamental beliefs.
"However, I am personally a market socialist."
That's a complete oxymoron. Socialism dictates that government controls the means of production and the flow of capital. And before you make the claim that you're a "democratic socialist" like the Scandinavian countries in Europe, those aren't socialist countries. their economies are capitalist-based that invest highly in welfare programs. They have free-market competition, low corporate taxes, and emphasis on private property rights.
The amount of ignorance taught by career professors who have never stepped a foot out of academia is absurd.
https://www.thelocal.dk/20151101/danish-pm-in-us-denmark-is-not-sociali…
I kind of get the idea of it. Have the laborers own the means of production, that way, workers have more of a real part in society. But, inevitably, someone will rise to the top, as followers like to be led and leaders like followers. So, it'll never work. You're more likely to get Adolf Hitler mixed with Bill Cosby mixed with Ayn Rand, who kills off enemies, sleeps with multiple servant women, and is basically an annoying cunt.
I'm market socialist. So I see a much larger role for Unions and Co-Ops, except maybe for the highest paying jobs. I prefer free associations to the state or very large corporations. There's still a market, so it's competition between groups of workers actually making things rather than whatever few people own the enterprises.
Read wealth of nations. Adam Smith was a market socialist
That former loser CEO of Goldman was some global warming faggy lib with a Prius.
"These days, the American dream is more apt to be realized in South America, in places such as Ecuador, Venezuela and Argentina..." - Bernie Sanders, 2011
"Zoo animals are being stolen from parks in western Venezuela and police believe they are being snatched to be eaten by the starving local population." - Venezuela, 2017 - https://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2017/08/17/venezuelas-starving…
How many more times do we need to see socialism tried before we as a species realize it does not work?
OP isn't socialist through and through. Like most others, he probably likes the idea of sounding noble about the "common good," but when it comes to his bank account, he wants capitalism.
"Socialism is all fun and games until you run out of other people's money."
I'd rather see an elimination of centralized control of the economy. Why is centralized control by private entities so much better than centralized control by the state? The private entity might be slightly more efficient, but they're essentially the same. I'm against both. This is pretty off topic, so please try to address my actual questions. They were real concerns.
If you want a rundown of what I believe, here's a copy paste from another post I made on this thread:
"You're using a definition of socialism that literally a hundred years old, man. Market Socialism is worker's self-management, through co-ops and other free associations, and having Unions in sectors that are not self-managed. I really do hate the government, and I think they function in much the way that large monopolistic corporations do. When you have a truly free market, where actors in the market can be actually competitive rather than be subject to material whims, you have the market actually working.
A group of worker's acting collectively can demand only as much as they are worth to the company they work for. If the company doesn't really add that much value to a product on top of what the worker's make, most of the money would go to workers. If whatever innovations the company adds to their product really does add a lot of value, then the company can just replace the workers.
There is still a competitive market between firms, and therefore market inefficiencies. Wall Street would exist to correct those inefficiencies."
OP will cease to exist as a socialist the moment he sees the tax on his first paycheck
Well said. People like talking the talk, but very few actually walk the walk.
I've worked enough to know the feeling of losing all that money to tax. It'd be easy to run a country without a deficit, those who make fucktons of money would just have to pay somewhat more, and maybe actually reinvest into the economy.
There was this proposal for an elimination of the budget that would revitalize the economy from the progressive caucus a couple years ago. I think it was called the People's Budget. very Interesting.
I'd say the majority of finance profession is very far to the left, though it varies by function. Corp Dev/Bval tends to be more free-market oriented while banking/money management is more anti-market (their profession is rooted in the notion of market inefficiency, so it makes sense).
Leftism permeates in finance because of the geographical location of major finance hubs (Chicago, NY, Boston, SF, etc.) So you'll feel right at home.
The real question is, why are you such a hypocrite? And no, finance would not be a private function in market socialism. Capital would be allocated to each organization by the government and within each organization by the workers. You might want to brush up on your socialism.
words have definitions, please look them up.
Care to be more specific, or am I left with this completely ambiguous, cryptic response that I can't respond to? I understand your apprehension. Engaging me on this issue will be difficult for you, but if you don't really want to engage then please stay out.
You're using a definition of socialism that literally a hundred years old, man. Market Socialism is worker's self-management, through co-ops and other free associations, and having Unions in sectors that are not self-managed. I really do hate the government, and I think they function in much the way that large monopolistic corporations do. When you have a truly free market, where actors in the market can be actually competitive rather than be subject to material whims, you have the market actually working.
A group of worker's acting collectively can demand only as much as they are worth to the company they work for. If the company doesn't really add that much value to a product on top of what the worker's make, most of the money would go to workers. If whatever innovations the company adds to their product really does add a lot of value, then the company can just replace the workers.
There is still a competitive market between firms, and therefore market inefficiencies. Wall Street would exist to correct those inefficiencies.
No, I'm not. I'm using an accurate description of market socialism as espoused by Oskar Lange and Abba Lerner in the 1920s.
Market socialism is an economic system where the free exchange of consumer goods is permitted in a market environment and where the manufacturing of consumer goods is done by labor owned enterprises. Producer goods, i.e., capital goods, are public goods. They are not privately owned.
Based on the theories put forth by Lerner and Lange, the state would be able to impute the demand for producer goods by monitoring the demand for their corresponding consumer goods. Through a system of simultaneous production functions and matrix algebra, the state would be able to determine the optimal quantity or magnitude of producer goods, which it would then allocate or distribute to labor owned enterprises. The labor owned enterprises would then be free to utilize the capital in anyway they see fit. In other words, there would be no equity/debt holders.
This theory emerged in the 1920s as a result of the socialist economic calculation debate, first between the Marxists and the Austrians and then between the market socialists ans the Austrians. The Austrians first refuted the Marxists by explaining that a system without markets and money could not produce information signals required for the rational production and allocation of economic goods in a world of scarcity.
Market socialism was the second leg of that debate, and they were just as easily refuted. In case your wondering, the third and final legal was between the Keynesians and the Austrians.
There is no wallstreet in market socialism or in any form of socialism, for that matter.
Dude...you gotta stop smoking weed.
I would feel safer being a communist than a Republican in college or highschool. The second you start having any conservative viewpoint is the second that everyone in the class starts hating you and thinking your a racist homophobic redneck. At least if your communist they have to be "accepting" of your ideas
Honest question. Do you think that has any relationship to the ideas or bedfellows the conservative wing has engaged with since, oh say Nixon, or is it just peer pressure/a fad kids go thru?
But, who would start these innovative coops?....
Just kidding, this is actually a pretty good troll post. Nobody can be this dumb.
Well, its not. I'm not here to debate politics. Any advice?
For what it's worth I was raised incredibly liberal (actually a Quaker), but was a competitive athlete and I love competition so through college started leaning into capitalism more.
Recently, however, I realized that almost no one on either side of the aisle has a good argument for what they believe outside of political rhetoric. Liberals end up managing to call everyone ignorant, and conservatives call everyone cucks without any actual conversation. This thread is pretty good proof of that.
What you end up realizing is that the system is not fair nor perfect, never will be and never was. Just find a couple core things you care about and vote when you can, donate if you can. Unless you decide to become a career politician, or manage to become a billionaire your political opinion will never matter- and calling someone retarded over a forum is never going to change their mind, nor is it going to change that fact.
The system is what it is. You can play the rules the way they are written, or you can bitch about them. Seems like both parties do a whole lot of bitching.
First, don’t confuse Europe ‘s DemSoc parties with old-fashioned socialists. The latter went extinct decades ago. And the DemSoc parties are really about having a strong central government to get done want voters want done.
Second, finance is full of lefties. It provides perspectives that the herds of independent thinkers on Wall Street don’t have. Lefties are often the real contrarians and if you’re going to be successful as a stock picker it helps not to think like every other country club Republican.
Warren Buffet, who is more left on lots of things than people realize, always credited being in Omaha as one reason he is so good an investor. He saw what Wall Street did not.
I'm not sure what world you're living in, but there are plenty of retarded ideologues who jerk their lil' micro-cocks to the original tenets of socialism nowadays.
That's quite the hollow, platitudinous statement.
This was probably true 30 years ago. Not so much nowadays.
Socialism is the bomb yo! Ever wonder why so many Americans make the swim from Key West to Havana!? oh wait...
@clubapple123" did you ever get a response to your initial question?
Is investment banking socialist? (Originally Posted: 04/02/2011)
After all, everyone gets the same base salary of $70,000 despite their performance, good or bad. sure, the end of year bonus is tied to the individual, but there's still a very significant chunk that's allocated the same to everyone.
Is investment banking socialist? (Originally Posted: 04/02/2011)
After all, everyone gets the same base salary of $70,000 despite their performance, good or bad. sure, the end of year bonus is tied to the individual, but there's still a very significant chunk that's allocated the same to everyone.
First, the salary only stays very close from individual to individual when you first start out, there is a lot of variance in the upper levels. Second if IB is socialist then every job in America is socialist. Socialism doesn't exist because people with the same job get paid a similar amount, it exists when everyone that does a different job is forced to accept the same/similar pay.
Either this guy gets you every time or you're the most tactical double-troller on this site.
Investment Banking is probably the least socialist profession out there.
I'd argue i-banking is the most Corporate Socialist job out there.
The business risks are socialized, corporate rewards are kept private. Too big to fail.
Troll is successful.
How is receiving the same salary socialist? Commoditized workers should receive the same salary in a free market.
stupid thread is stupid
Look who made it.
hahaha. Your too funny to be banned.
Socialist is as socialist does.
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