Have your ever met a socialist or leftist in finance or consulting? I'm a socialist who's interested in pursuing one of the two.

clubapple123's picture
Rank: Monkey | banana points 31

I'll be studying Economics at Brown, and talking to a few profs it seems like there is pretty good placement in wall street or consulting for those who want it. It is a 'Target school' and a lot of companies recruit there, and there's not much competition. It's something I've considered, especially if the work I'd be doing would use "soft skills" that I find interesting to exercise.

However, I am personally a market socialist. I've been a leftist my whole life, so I don't think me being some sort of socialist will change. Technically, finance would still be an industry in a market socialist society, it would just be much less profitable. There wouldn't be huge accumulations of capital.

Anyway, I think I'd be fine personally working in finance as long as the work is interesting. But I don't know if I'd be shut out of higher paying positions just for my beliefs. I was also considering other ivies like Dartmouth, a place that heavily places into finance, and it seems like everyone who goes into wall street is a fratty white boy.

Now, I don't necessarily care. I chose Brown because of the culture fit. But if a lot of people on the street are like this, I'd probably be shut out of higher level positions, just because I might seem like a radical. Building connections is also important, so I don't know if people would be turned off by my beliefs.

Working in finance or consulting, do you know any leftists? What sort of treatment have they had from others there? Has their advancement been stifled by their beliefs?

I'm also bisexual and non-white, so I don't fit into the stereotypical popular view of a wall street guy. I'm not weird or edgy about it though. I don't generally talk about politics other than with my friends.

Have you ever met a socialist or leftist on the street? Not that people would tell you randomly, but once you get to know someone well you generally know about their political beliefs.

What do ya'll think of my situation? Any help or advice would be appreciated.

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Comments (106)

May 2, 2018

Well, you've certainly come to the right place...

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May 2, 2018

Haha well, also asked reddit

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May 3, 2018

Pretty sure VENEZUELA is the right place to ask

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May 3, 2018

I'm no fan of socialism, but I am a fan of honest good faith discussion. Why is Venezuela always cited as the standard right-wing response to anyone left of center, and never Norway, Denmark, or Finland? Venezuela is not socialist, it has a populist and totalitarian government trying to implant a communist constitution which has resulted in failed-state capitalism.

when you're accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression

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May 3, 2018
onemanwolfpack:

I'm no fan of socialism, but I am a fan of honest good faith discussion. Why is Venezuela always cited as the standard right-wing response to anyone left of center, and never Norway, Denmark, or Finland? Venezuela is not socialist, it has a populist and totalitarian government trying to implant a communist constitution which has resulted in failed-state capitalism.

You have this totally backwards--Venezuela is the definition of a socialist country (with all major industry run by the government). Norway, Denmark, Finland, et al are very much capitalist countries with large welfare states, and in many respects they are easier to do business in than the United States. Norway is also super rich because of that evil, wicked, horrible thing called oil.

Democratic socialism a la Bernie Sanders increases the welfare state without releasing the private sector--which produces all of the wealth--from a crushing regulatory burden. Democratic socialism in America might actually be palatable if the American left wasn't cherry picking some parts of successful democratic socialists countries (their welfare state) while ignoring the other things that they do well (like, manage immigration strictly, not over regulating).

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May 4, 2018

Because Norway, Denmark and Finland aren't actually socialist countries. They're standard homogeneous, mixed economies. Denmark in particular is among the most economically free in the world. It has a freer economy than the US.

To answer your questions: Venezuela is perhaps the most resource rich country in the world. It was the wealthiest country in South America until Chavez took over. Once Chavez started nationalizing industries, western businesses slowly began exiting (I know because it used to be a major pharma hub) and the economy became more and more dependent on Oil.

The standard of living gradually declined for common man and simultaneously increased for the government officials. Chavez's daughter is the wealthiest person in the country. Once the oil price tanked, the economy went with it. Since the crisis, Maduro has implemented every failed socialist tactic in the book - the tactics that the leftists constantly urge us to do here in the states. The result is that the once prosperous country is now in a hyper-inflationary death spiral.

Beyond the economic catastrophe, Maduro and his regime are violating human rights en masse. They imprison all those who speak out against them. They've completely shut down the free media. His army rapes and pillage women in the streets, People are eating zoo animals to survive.

It wasn't too long ago Bernie praised Venezuela and claimed it should be a model for the US. Venezuela implemented every policy that the liberals in the US want for America. Nationalized healthcare, education, minimum wages, etc.

It's a cautionary tale. It only takes one generation for a free and prosperous society to completely collapse under the weight of socialism.

That's why.

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May 3, 2018

I think there is a giant leap from nationalizing healthcare and education (common in nearly every developed country outside of the U.S.) and what is taking place in Venezuela. Yes, the far-left Bernie Bros want outright socialism, which like libertarianism, works well in theory only. The large majority of those left of center see a better future for the U.S. with a more progressive tax system that allows all citizens the ability for upward movement without the lifelong burden of oppressive medical and education costs. If both sides continue to ignore the growing income inequality gap in this country, the extremists in both parties will continue to gain followers, and none of us will be happy.

when you're accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression

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May 4, 2018
onemanwolfpack:

I think there is a giant leap from nationalizing healthcare and education (common in nearly every developed country outside of the U.S.) and what is taking place in Venezuela.

Indeed there is. I've never made the point that there wasn't. It starts with education, healthcare and then moves on to finance until eventually all or most of industry is government controlled. It is a gradual, incremental process based on Fabien strategy (hence the name of Fabien socialists).

onemanwolfpack:

Yes, the far-left Bernie Bros want outright socialism, which like libertarianism, works well in theory only.

Socialism doesn't work well in theory.

onemanwolfpack:

The large majority of those left of center see a better future for the U.S. with a more progressive tax system that allows all citizens the ability for upward movement without the lifelong burden of oppressive medical and education costs. If both sides continue to ignore the growing income inequality gap in this country, the extremists in both parties will continue to gain followers, and none of us will be happy.

The large majority of leftists in the country don't know why they believe what they believe and that the vast majority of their positions are directly attributable to Marx, Prudhon, Bakunin, etc.

Here are the 10 planks of communism:

  1. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.
  2. Abolition of all rights of inheritance.
  3. Centralization of credit in the hands of the state, by means of a national bank with state capital and an exclusive monopoly.
  4. Centralization of the means of communication and transportation in the hands of the state.
  5. Free education for all children in government schools. Abolition of children's factory labor in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production, etc. etc.
  6. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.
  7. Equal obligation of all to work. Establishment of Industrial armies, especially for agriculture.
  8. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the state; the bringing into cultivation of waste lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.
  9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of the distinction between town and country by a more equable distribution of the population over the country.
  10. Abolition of private property in land and application of all rents of land to public purpose.

Does this look familiar to you at all?

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May 3, 2018
Alt-Ctr-Left:

The large majority of those left of center see a better future for the U.S. with a more progressive tax system that allows all citizens the ability for upward movement without the lifelong burden of oppressive medical and education costs. If both sides continue to ignore the growing income inequality gap in this country, the extremists in both parties will continue to gain followers, and none of us will be happy.

The irony in what you're saying is that it's the left's intervention into the medical and educational spheres that have caused these services to become unobtainable for many without oppressive debt. The U.S. medical industry is one of the most regulated and subsidized industries in America; U.S. higher education is also highly regulated and almost certainly the most highly subsidized industry on the face of the Earth (little to no hyperbole there).

Unfortunately, the American left has a real ideological problem with the immutable law of supply and demand. By subsidizing a product (medicine, education), you artificially inflate the price of the product beyond its natural level of demand; and by regulating it, you create additional costs to the providers. It should come as no surprise that the 3 industries in America that have increased costs well above the rate of inflation the last 50 years are medicine, higher education, and housing (also a highly subsidized industry).

Poor people can thank the Democratic party for housing, health care, and college being so unaffordable and unobtainable for them.

May 4, 2018

Would be interested to hear how you justify those conclusions about healthcare and education given that pretty much every country that does it better (comparable or better service with lower costs) does it with a lot more government control than the USA.

May 4, 2018
financebro69:

Would be interested to hear how you justify those conclusions about healthcare and education given that pretty much every country that does it better (comparable or better service with lower costs) does it with a lot more government control than the USA.

It's not just about money. You can't just throw money at problems and think it will always make it better. There are real issues with the populace in this country, such as real mental health issues, cultural identity issues, etc., that keep people from sitting down, focusing, and getting the education and skills to help them succeed.

In addition, we also have a deficit issue that makes labor expensive and jobs in some industries scarce. Until we fix some systemic issues, it really doesn't matter how much we spend on education or healthcare, people's personal issues will always lead them to unhealthy activities, that are hard and expensive to treat.

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May 3, 2018
financebro69:

Would be interested to hear how you justify those conclusions about healthcare and education given that pretty much every country that does it better (comparable or better service with lower costs) does it with a lot more government control than the USA.

Regarding education, a lot fewer people go to college in Germany, for example, than in the U.S., and the U.S. university system is, without question, the best university system in the world. Apples and oranges. A Toyota Corolla is cheaper than an Audi RS7. Although both cars take you from point A to point B, they serve different purposes. With that said, there are things Europe does that the U.S. could benefit from by emulating (e.g. many countries have a 6-year medical degree path with no wasted time on useless undergrad courses).

Regarding medicine, the U.S. produces a disproportionate amount of medical and pharmaceutical innovation that the rest of the world freeloads off of. For example, Canada and other nations price fix drug prices, so the pharmaceutical companies have to make the vast majority of their profits in the United States. Without the U.S. market, the rest of the world would have far more expensive drug prices (if they even had the drugs at all since the profits in the U.S. market are the incentive for drug creation). Again, not really comparing apples to apples.

The real question is, how could a truly free market system improve upon an already good but highly wasteful U.S. healthcare system? How could reducing the artificially high supply of money reduce costs to an already very strong U.S. higher educational system?

May 4, 2018
financebro69:

Would be interested to hear how you justify those conclusions about healthcare and education given that pretty much every country that does it better (comparable or better service with lower costs) does it with a lot more government control than the USA.

You're not even comparing apples to oranges; you're comparing apples to gerbils. There are a plethora of different variables you must take into account when doing such a comparison. Things like this are not black-and-white; they are incredibly complex and, unfortunately, few people ever make the effort to even get past the stage of simply parroting worthless, reductive shit they read on FB so they can feel good about themselves.

Pick up some Thomas Sowell books if you're actually interested in learning about topics such as these, where you'll be provided with real depth, explanation and the evidence to back it all up.

May 4, 2018
Esuric:

Because Norway, Denmark and Finland aren't actually socialist countries. They're standard homogeneous, mixed economies. Denmark in particular is among the most economically free in the world. It has a freer economy than the US.

To answer your questions: Venezuela is perhaps the most resource rich country in the world. It was the wealthiest country in South America until Chavez took over. Once Chavez started nationalizing industries, western businesses slowly began exiting (I know because it used to be a major pharma hub) and the economy became more and more dependent on Oil.

The standard of living gradually declined for common man and simultaneously increased for the government officials. Chavez's daughter is the wealthiest person in the country. Once the oil price tanked, the economy went with it. Since the crisis, Maduro has implemented every failed socialist tactic in the book - the tactics that the leftists constantly urge us to do here in the states. The result is that the once prosperous country is now in a hyper-inflationary death spiral.

Beyond the economic catastrophe, Maduro and his regime are violating human rights en masse. They imprison all those who speak out against them. They've completely shut down the free media. His army rapes and pillage women in the streets, People are eating zoo animals to survive.

It wasn't too long ago Bernie praised Venezuela and claimed it should be a model for the US. Venezuela implemented every policy that the liberals in the US want for America. Nationalized healthcare, education, minimum wages, etc.

It's a cautionary tale. It only takes one generation for a free and prosperous society to completely collapse under the weight of socialism.

That's why.

Outstanding post--tried to give you a SB but fat fingered it unfortunately and now can't seem to get rid of the Ms. Sorry about that

Best Response
May 2, 2018

you're not a socialist bro. you're just a white boy who took some philosophy electives

heister:

Look at all these wannabe richies hating on an expensive salad.

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May 2, 2018

LMAOOO THIS

my ex-gf was a fucking super finance hardess until she attended NYU started smoking weed and minored in philosophy. recently saw she joined a socialist Brooklyn club lmao. If it wasn't for her strong desire to join ibanking i would have been a police officer.

What concert costs 45 cents? 50 Cent feat. Nickelback.

May 2, 2018

Haha well, both of those are innacurate. I'm not white, all the philosophy I've read was done independently, and most of my academics in high school was hard sciences/math and economics.

Considering so much of the industry comes from elite schools, I thought they'd probably be mostly liberal and not care much for trivialities like race.

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May 2, 2018
Ganjikunta:

I'm also bisexual and non-white,

You already have a large leg up to getting in these gigs.

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May 2, 2018

Welcome to 2018 haha ;)

May 2, 2018

Mentioning it once is equivalent to cancer? That's a pretty sad way to view the world.

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May 2, 2018

people are pretty good at spotting patterns. someone who mentions that shit in their elevator pitch usually goes on to annoy everyone around them

heister:

Look at all these wannabe richies hating on an expensive salad.

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May 2, 2018

was this an elevator pitch? no...

but you'd be blind to see that some types of people are put off by the idea of non-straight relationships. And if I have to make friends and connections, at a time when relationships are a big part of social discussions, that might become a problem for me. Do you see why I brought it up?

May 2, 2018

Yeah I get it dude I'm just making fun of you mostly. And we must be hanging with different crowds. Nobody I know gives a fuck if you're gay and wouldn't ask or care or whatever. We just don't give a fuck and have bigger shit to think about. Just be yourself and you'll find your place bro.

heister:

Look at all these wannabe richies hating on an expensive salad.

May 4, 2018

Socialist--ahh yes, the ideology that believes capitalism encourages us to be savages towards one another, as we compete in the labor force. WRONG. I'm sure your liberal Ivy professors who've never been in the workforce will teach you this idea, so you'll do fine at Brown. But, you may end up deciding to be a social worker or go to law school, because you'll find that competition is actually savage on wall street. If you don't like it, you should just move on now. :)

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May 2, 2018

Brown isn't that left in terms of politics for the ivies. Columbia is much more to the left. Either way, I don't care what sort of dogma my profs teach me, I know its dogma. If I'd gone to Dartmouth instead of Brown, I'd just be taught whatever crazy libertarian theory Meir Kohn has rather than Keynesian economics.

Also, if you've actually gone to college, you know that "super atheistic communist profs" stereotype is a complete strawman.

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May 4, 2018
thefishiscool:

Brown isn't that left in terms of politics for the ivies. Columbia is much more to the left. Either way, I don't care what sort of dogma my profs teach me, I know its dogma. If I'd gone to Dartmouth instead of Brown, I'd just be taught whatever crazy libertarian theory Meir Kohn has rather than Keynesian economics.

Also, if you've actually gone to college, you know that "super atheistic communist profs" stereotype is a complete strawman.

Maybe, but almost all professors I had and have encountered are hardcore leftists. I'd say like 90%. One of my econ professors was an Austrian and taught Ayn Rand and then one of the other ones actually talked shit about him to me because of it.

EDIT: And have you gone to college? sounds like you're still pondering what school to pick. You'll find out. Most profs are super liberal. It's in their nature. They like logic and to control, but capitalism tends to be more chaotic, especially in a natural free market system.

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May 4, 2018
thefishiscool:

Also, if you've actually gone to college, you know that "super atheistic communist profs" stereotype is a complete strawman.

Kid that hasn't even begun college sets up his own strawman in an attempt to strawman an opposing argument, effectively using his fallacious argument against himself. How socialist of you.

Furthermore, you don't need to attend college to realize and understand the far-left-leaning nature of most universities in the U.S.; damning evidence of this fact is readily available all over the place.

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May 2, 2018

of course, I know they are more left than the majority of Americans. Almost all of them supported Bernie or Hillary, and a few supported Kasich. But Just because they are social democrats or 'democratic socialists' doesn't mean they're far left. They'd be centrists or left-leaning anywhere else in the industrialized world.

Well, I can't speak for four years of college education, but I've taken plenty of college courses, and I work in a University econ department as a research intern. Everyone I met was left of center, I didn't meet a single "leftist". And this was at Yale, a school with a super liberal reputation.

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May 2, 2018

Savagery is inherent in humans. Got nothing to do with Capitalism. Capitalism facilitates the nicest kind of savagery. Check out the savagery that happens under Socialist regimes. Oh no, a buyout! Savagery! How about labor camps, homie? That better?

heister:

Look at all these wannabe richies hating on an expensive salad.

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May 4, 2018
GoldenCinderblock:

Savagery is inherent in humans. Got nothing to do with Capitalism. Capitalism facilitates the nicest kind of savagery. Check out the savagery that happens under Socialist regimes. Oh no, a buyout! Savagery! How about labor camps, homie? That better?

I mean capitalism and savagery are pretty similar. That's why it works. The planners will never do a good enough job, because they are just savage humans too at the end of the day.

May 2, 2018

How are capitalism and savagery similar?

heister:

Look at all these wannabe richies hating on an expensive salad.

May 4, 2018
GoldenCinderblock:

How are capitalism and savagery similar?

If profits are high in an industry, capitalism encourages free movement of investors into that industry until high profitability deviates back to normal or approaches zero. The original founder is not 'entitled' to high profitability or some compensation for his idea if barriers to entry are not high.

At the laborer level, that means that an industry that is no longer profitable can lose out on his job as the means to production fall out of place as investors see no reason for further investment.

This is a natural cycle that we call 'competition'. But what makes it work is that anyone can practice these ideas, in theory. The issue is that barriers of entry tend to be high as managers and lobbyists fight to keep them high. But, it also means that the laborer gets to keep his job.

The point is, any human idea can be worth fighting for and this fight is healthy, as society benefits from it, as oppose to facing a frustrated, raging barbarian.

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May 2, 2018

I understand how free markets work. But here's an example: I sold a house last week for $15K above asking in 10 hours. The buyers backed out a few days after earnest money cleared, which is legal. They have 7 days to back out for any reason. Their agent told me this guy works at Apple IT and they're having restructuring or some bullshit and he got cold feet. I know that what really happened is these cunts offered high on a bunch of houses and backed out of all but one because inventory is so low. They wasted my time. They wasted a bunch of people's time. And they used high pressure tactics (short contract expiration, etc.), which I normally ignore but didn't this time.

The house is gonna sell again easy but still, they fucked me. I feel slighted. But we live in a lawful land and I want a sustainable career. So I played nice with them and their lawyer and wished everyone luck and blah blah blah. That broker is on my shit list for life. I will lose money if I have to to fuck her professionally any way I can. But let's say we didn't have laws. Of course real estate couldn't even exist. But let's play pretend. Let's say I could get away with anything I wanted to and nobody would find out. Dude, if I had a button I could press and kill every party involved on the buyer end of that failed transaction, I would. Especially that little soft-handed IT fuck. In a heartbeat.

I'm operating life under the assumptions that a. Everything is abundant: People, money, opportunity. I won't compromise in who I deal with or how I do things and the world has more than enough people. Life isn't precious. And b. I'm going to be here for years and years to come, so everything I do needs to be fully sustainable. So you can't kill people. Killing people is savage. Polite emails with lawyers CC'd are not savage.

heister:

Look at all these wannabe richies hating on an expensive salad.

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May 4, 2018
GoldenCinderblock:

But let's play pretend. Let's say I could get away with anything I wanted to and nobody would find out.

This is where your whole argument falls apart. We could have one law or set of laws governing property rights and simply no law governing the crime of murder. But, obviously, this makes no sense because in order to protect property, you would also want to protect one's body from harm.

You really can't have any form of capitalism without rule of law, basically because you need property rights for markets to function properly. The type of barbarism I'm talking about is where rule of law no longer prevails because some one person declares it unimportant.

The type of socialism we've seen and that has often failed is the kind where that one person rises to the top, factions a mob, and then seizes on all of the means of production, leveraging some form of power. It's the kind of self-fulfilling cycle where if one person shows a right to act this way, many others will and that first person knows it. The only way to successfully remain in power will be to throw away rule of law and rule by authority, killing enemies and constructing barriers that keep potential enemies weak, while bolstering supporters (famine, control of weapons and resources, etc.).

This is exactly what your scenario is suggesting. Your idea of no rule of law free market is the same thing as some form of end of spectrum authoritarianism like socialism.

But, if you're trying to make the argument that within capitalism, people tend to act civil. Yes. I certainly agree. I was trying to make the point that capitalism as a function does not act planned or lack savagery. It's a collection of ideas that form capitalism versus a grand plan. You could be an ideal man that believes in real estate deals while a policymaker understood the importance of enacting a statue governing property, including bodily harm as an important piece to that. These are both ideas just different means to the same democratic capitalist end.

EDIT: Iin the utopian world, there's the idea that people will not interfere with your ability to make a living. But, again, the only way you can stop humans from engaging in competitive acts of attempting to rise to the top is by suppressing them. If you want a world where you don't encounter the broker who improperly backed out of the deal, you would have to murder her just like you said. Capitalism as a system encourages people to seek democratic solutions like you said, promoting a more civilized society. Even though, capitalism technically makes us competitive, it also forces us to stymie some of our competitiveness like you said. But it's not planned that way, it just functions well that way because it mirrors the true nature of humans, by not having a singular rigid theme. There's capitalism in every little idea at the most micro levels if you consider the way that we are constantly driving our own success.

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May 2, 2018

I don't disagree. I'm confused. Are we debating something even?

heister:

Look at all these wannabe richies hating on an expensive salad.

May 4, 2018
GoldenCinderblock:

I don't disagree. I'm confused. Are we debating something even?

Lol. I've also been on this from my phone and didn't have a lot of time to structure my answers. I think I'm just expounding on the short version. We probably do agree on this.

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May 2, 2018

lol just move to Canada bro, you'll fit in much more over there. Ask them how they like their healthcare too... hint: they come to the US to get operations done instead of waiting a year in Canada.

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May 3, 2018
BBDreamin:

Ask them how they like their healthcare too... hint: they come to the US to get operations done instead of waiting a year in Canada.

How many Canadian citizens do you think come over to the US for medical treatment?

May 2, 2018

All the ones that can actually afford to do so for operations that they don't want to have to wait a year for. I personally know of some as I played hockey with Canadians. their healthcare is a joke.

May 3, 2018
BBDreamin:

All the ones that can actually afford to do so for operations that they don't want to have to wait a year for. I personally know of some as I played hockey with Canadians. their healthcare is a joke.

Unfortunately, since I don't play hockey but climb rocks instead, I am going to provide arguments for which there is real statistical evidence.

(a) The US healthcare must be even worse, since somewhere from 750 thousand to 1.4 million Americans travel abroad for medical treatment every year (as per Patients Beyond Borders). That's a higher percent of population than Canada (the number that you likely to find is from the Frasier report, something like 55 thousand people per year seek treatment abroad).

(b) The metrics (life expectancy, maternal and infant mortality rates, obesity rates etc) are mostly better in for Canada vs the US. In fact, despite "the best medical care", the US is not really leading in any of the categories among the OECD countries.

(c) The US has the highest health care spending per capita and the highest (by far) number of personal bankruptcies due to medical costs.

Honestly, I don't have an opinion either way, I think there are pros and cons to both private and social medicine. I just hate bullshit and that statement smelled very much like it.

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May 2, 2018
Mostly Random Dude:
BBDreamin:

All the ones that can actually afford to do so for operations that they don't want to have to wait a year for. I personally know of some as I played hockey with Canadians. their healthcare is a joke.

Unfortunately, since I don't play hockey but climb rocks instead, I am going to provide arguments for which there is real statistical evidence.

(a) The US healthcare must be even worse, since somewhere from 750 thousand to 1.4 million Americans travel abroad for medical treatment every year (as per Patients Beyond Borders). That's a higher percent of population than Canada (the number that you likely to find is from the Frasier report, something like 55 thousand people per year seek treatment abroad).

(b) The metrics (life expectancy, maternal and infant mortality rates, obesity rates etc) are mostly better in for Canada vs the US. In fact, despite "the best medical care", the US is not really leading in any of the categories among the OECD countries.

(c) The US has the highest health care spending per capita and the highest (by far) number of personal bankruptcies due to medical costs.

Honestly, I don't have an opinion either way, I think there are pros and cons to both private and social medicine. I just hate bullshit and that statement smelled very much like it.

(a) Canadian population is ~11% of the US. On a percentage basis on the high end of your statistics, 0.43% of Americans travel abroad for medical treatment on the low end, 0.23% . ~0.15% of Canadians travel abroad for medical treatment. Not really that big of a difference on a % basis.

Also, the numbers don't tell the story. Why are they traveling abroad i.e. because the socialist healthcare system is a failure and treatment takes forever or is it because some country's are just much cheaper in general to get treatment?

(b) this has way more to do with personal choice than it does healthcare. Things like stress, exercise, excessive drinking and bad eating habits are much more to blame than healthcare. American's are well known for their shitty lifestyle habits. I highly highly doubt the the actual quality of Canadian healthcare is superior to America's. HIGHLY doubt it.

I'd be willing to bet Canadians take better care of themselves on average than most Americans - although this is pure speculation.

Also, I never claimed the US had the "best" healthcare, the context was that we don't have to wait a damn year to get the operation done like is the case in many countries with socialist healthcare.

(c) yeah whatever, again at least I don't have to wait a year to get an operation done.... which was my whole point to begin with, not quality. my healthcare's relatively cheap. Call me heartless but I don't care about lazy bums not having healthcare. Again, this is Capitalism not Socialism. If you feel different, move to Canada. I'd rather not get my paycheck raped to pay for "cheaper" healthcare for everyone else that's too lazy to get off their ass.

Go ask our friends in the UK how Alfie Evans is doing due to socialist healthcare.

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May 3, 2018
BBDreamin:

Go ask our friends in the UK how Alfie Evans is doing due to socialist healthcare.

Well, by your logic his parents should've moved him to a private hospital and pay for everything themselves. Otherwise they are lazy bums, right?

PS. This is getting boring quickly - zero actual evidence, 40 bps and 15 bps is "not really that big of a difference". If I had to guess, you are a banker or something :P

May 4, 2018

Do you even statistic? That was fucking stupid to read. Damn

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May 2, 2018

I know of an entire team that was put together by people meeting each other at burning man (hardcore "burners", too)...so anything's possible. Now for a more serious answer...

You may be a good fit for a consulting/finance/investing role where maximizing returns (monetary that is) isn't necessarily the explicit end goal. Fortunately, such fields exist. Check economic consulting, especially in government. You may also be interested in non-profit investing, socially responsible investing, or social impact investing.

Now as for the people, it's hard for me to say because I don't know exactly where your definition of "leftist" lies on the political spectrum. But there are certainly democrats and liberals in every corner of finance, look at the lists of presidential candidate backers for reference.

That said, my guess is people in consulting are a little more to the left than in finance based on the nature of the two industries. Some areas (both finance and consulting) may also be weighted more to the left just given the overall culture of the sector they're involved in (renewable energy, tech, etc.). And as a general rule of thumb smaller companies tend to be less formal and you're more likely to find a culture or individual that "breaks the mold" so to speak (see burning man reference).

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May 3, 2018
MiserlyGrandpa:

I know of an entire team that was put together by people meeting each other at burning man (hardcore "burners", too)...so anything's possible.

that would make for a great story

WSO's COO (Chief Operating Orangutan) | My Linkedin

May 2, 2018

Thank you for the actual answer in all this muck haha. From asking around it seems like I'd definitely fit better into some sort of consulting role. It also seems like a lot of consulting companies recruit from Brown, so I may be in luck. Where could I go to find a rundown of the sort of work people in consulting do? Any basic guides?

May 2, 2018

I'm in RE finance so I can't give you an internal perspective. But I feel I got a good sense myself in college just from googling around, attending recruiting events, and talking to alumni in the field.

May 4, 2018

If you're like me and your leftist views let you see that the world is fucked up, but you're also super competitive and don't feel any strong personal responsibility to fix it, then as long as you generally avoid talking politics, are careful to be extremely polite when you do, and are able to keep your mouth shut and keep decent working relationships with people when they occasionally say some repugnant/ignorant shit (e.g. casual racism, misogyny, homophobia and transphobia) your political views shouldn't matter all that much if you can deal with the cognitive dissonance around the fact that some small percentage of every dollar you bring in for the company will probably go to lobbying for policies and politicians that will actively contribute to making the world shittier. Now unless you manage to find some crazy niche, being non-white and non-hetero on top of politically leftist will probably make it somewhat harder to succeed (especially difficult since you want to do soft skill stuff where at least at first, beyond a baseline acceptability, succeeding is more about fitting in than your ability and the actual work you do) since you'll just have less in common with the people around you, but it's not insurmountable if you make the effort and can deal with feeling a bit like you're wearing a mask all the time at work, without too much guilt about possibly betraying your identities. Having, or being able to feign having, basic interests like sports, getting fucked up (being low key about it of course), popular tv shows, and movies will definitely help, just make sure you learn/don't forget how to project that you're "one of the good ones" since at college you'll probably be able to surround yourself with people who generally see you for who you are/want to be, but in the working world you'll probably have to deal with the fact that, at least at first, most people will see you as a stereotype. Also, I should add, that a lot of the moral qualms and fit issues will follow you in almost any traditionally competitive field you want to enter so it's not necessarily a knock against the fields you mentioned that you'll have to deal with this shit.

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May 3, 2018
financebro69:

If you're like me and your leftist views let you see that the world is fucked up, but you're also super competitive and don't feel any strong personal responsibility to fix it, then as long as you generally avoid talking politics, are careful to be extremely polite when you do, and are able to keep your mouth shut and keep decent working relationships with people when they occasionally say some repugnant/ignorant shit (e.g. casual racism, misogyny, homophobia and transphobia) your political views shouldn't matter all that much if you can deal with the cognitive dissonance around the fact that some small percentage of every dollar you bring in for the company will probably go to lobbying for policies and politicians that will actively contribute to making the world shittier. Now unless you manage to find some crazy niche, being non-white and non-hetero on top of politically leftist will probably make it somewhat harder to succeed (especially difficult since you want to do soft skill stuff where at least at first, beyond a baseline acceptability, succeeding is more about fitting in than your ability and the actual work you do) since you'll just have less in common with the people around you, but it's not insurmountable if you make the effort and can deal with feeling a bit like you're wearing a mask all the time at work, without too much guilt about possibly betraying your identities. Having, or being able to feign having, basic interests like sports, getting fucked up (being low key about it of course), popular tv shows, and movies will definitely help, just make sure you learn/don't forget how to project that you're "one of the good ones" since at college you'll probably be able to surround yourself with people who generally see you for who you are/want to be, but in the working world you'll probably have to deal with the fact that, at least at first, most people will see you as a stereotype. Also, I should add, that a lot of the moral qualms and fit issues will follow you in almost any traditionally competitive field you want to enter so it's not necessarily a knock against the fields you mentioned that you'll have to deal with this shit.

Thank you, William Faulkner.

"If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." - Bruce Lee

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May 2, 2018

Damn good to see someone actually understands my viewpoint. I think that "putting on a mask" thing comes pretty naturally to me, since I live in such a finance heavy place. This was definitely useful insight though, thanks a lot!

May 3, 2018

Go work for a quant hedge fund :)

PS. It's funny how the Overton Window shifted over the recent past. When I first came to the US some 30 years ago, I was definitely a "conservative", free markets and all that shit. My views have barely changed, but now I am a "liberal". Go figure.

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May 3, 2018

Who knew the poke and smoke what u want party would be emerging out of the ashes of tipper gores explicit lyrics tight ass club

May 3, 2018

Pretty low chances. I'm not willing to help.

May 3, 2018

1). You really shouldn't be talking about politics at work, so I don't really know how people would know you're a hard core leftist/socialist.

2). If you believe in socialism, why are you trying to get a high paying job? That indicates to me that you're not really a strong believer, since individually you are trying to maximize your income. People acting in their own economic interest is basically the definition of a capitalist.

3). Have you ever worked before? Many people who get their first paycheck and see it 30%+ less because of taxes start changing their mind about how they feel about 'fair share' real quick.

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May 4, 2018
Ganjikunta:

I'm also bisexual and non-white

Congrats. You want a trophy or something? Do you also have a micro-cock? Are you balding too? Care to list any further meaningless surface-level labels of yourself that no one with half a brain gives a fuck about?

Ganjikunta:

I'm not weird or edgy

You're a self-proclaimed socialist, so yeah, I suppose self-righteous, naive ignoramus would be a better descriptor. Let me guess, you would be one of the card-carrying members that tells people what to do, right?

Ganjikunta:

I don't generally talk about politics other than with my friends.

This probably explains why you hold such retarded views. If you or your shut-in insufferable friends had even a cursory knowledge of world history or economics, you wouldn't be self-proclaimed socialists (unless of course you're a malevolent scumbag who actually enjoys the idea of mass death). I'm going to take a wild guess that you post a lot on FaceBook, constantly seeking external validation from people who are equally as ignorant as yourself.

If you're a true socialist, why are you attending college? Why don't you instead give that money to people who are impoverished? Why don't you sell the device with which you've posted this drivel and give the money to someone less fortunate? Oh, I forgot, because you're a smaht wittle boy prodigy that's going to change da woyld for da betta wif socialism, right?

Hopefully, if only for your own sake, you grow up sometime soon.

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May 3, 2018

Did I just have a stroke or is this person posting with one profile, and replying with another?

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May 3, 2018

you and me both. does this guy have a WSO burner account or did he change his name mid thread?

twitter: @CorpFin_Guy

May 2, 2018

Changed my username so I dont get doxxed or smth lol

May 3, 2018

You guys need to lay off this kid, Bernie can still win.

May 3, 2018

hi, some kind of socialist here.

my economic philosophy is that public utilities should be truly publicly owned, and public utilities should offer many services, including basic banking and insurance for individuals and small business, as well as finance public goods like infrastructure projects.

dont let all the ayn rand boys get you down, the finance of the future is going to have to come terms with the notion of a commons, whether creative, real or securitized.

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May 4, 2018
FOHFLady:

hi, some kind of socialist here.

A hedge fund employee calling herself "some kind of socialist." One of the more hilarious things I've ever read on this forum.

FOHFLady:

my economic philosophy is that public utilities should be truly publicly owned, and public utilities should offer many services, including basic banking and insurance for individuals and small business, as well as finance public goods like infrastructure projects.

Vague, nondescript childish verbiage of "how things should be." Truly insightful and inspiring "economic philosophy."

FOHFLady:

dont let all the ayn rand boys get you down, the finance of the future is going to have to come terms with the notion of a commons, whether creative, real or securitized.

"Everyone who voices their opposition to socialist idealogues is an Ayn Rand worshipper. xDDD"

I bet you actually believe that you could win a debate against Milton Friedman (RIP) or Thomas Sowell.

May 3, 2018

I'm giving you and Dennis Miller 3 days to think of a clever response.

Free Mulligan.

May 4, 2018
FOHFLady:

I'm giving you and Dennis Miller 3 days to think of a clever response.

Free Mulligan.

None of your incoherent babble warrants further thought, lest I aim to infect myself with the same neurodegenerative disease that you clearly suffer from.

May 3, 2018
May 2, 2018

i agree, the commons is the future. it has to be or the market will eat itself alive. Good to see some people agree with me, what do you think of my initial questions/what I should do?

May 3, 2018

You're going to limit how far you can go yourself if you pursue a career that goes against your fundamental beliefs.

May 3, 2018

"However, I am personally a market socialist."

That's a complete oxymoron. Socialism dictates that government controls the means of production and the flow of capital. And before you make the claim that you're a "democratic socialist" like the Scandinavian countries in Europe, those aren't socialist countries. their economies are capitalist-based that invest highly in welfare programs. They have free-market competition, low corporate taxes, and emphasis on private property rights.

The amount of ignorance taught by career professors who have never stepped a foot out of academia is absurd.

https://www.thelocal.dk/20151101/danish-pm-in-us-d...

May 4, 2018
Clemsonrichyrich:

"However, I am personally a market socialist."

That's a complete oxymoron. Socialism dictates that government controls the means of production and the flow of capital. And before you make the claim that you're a "democratic socialist" like the Scandinavian countries in Europe, those aren't socialist countries. their economies are capitalist-based that invest highly in welfare programs. They have free-market competition, low corporate taxes, and emphasis on private property rights.

The amount of ignorance taught by career professors who have never stepped a foot out of academia is absurd.

https://www.thelocal.dk/20151101/danish-pm-in-us-d...

I kind of get the idea of it. Have the laborers own the means of production, that way, workers have more of a real part in society. But, inevitably, someone will rise to the top, as followers like to be led and leaders like followers. So, it'll never work. You're more likely to get Adolf Hitler mixed with Bill Cosby mixed with Ayn Rand, who kills off enemies, sleeps with multiple servant women, and is basically an annoying cunt.

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May 2, 2018

I'm market socialist. So I see a much larger role for Unions and Co-Ops, except maybe for the highest paying jobs. I prefer free associations to the state or very large corporations. There's still a market, so it's competition between groups of workers actually making things rather than whatever few people own the enterprises.

Read wealth of nations. Adam Smith was a market socialist

May 3, 2018
Ganjikunta:

I'll be studying Economics at Brown, and talking to a few profs it seems like there is pretty good placement in wall street or consulting for those who want it. It is a 'Target school' and a lot of companies recruit there, and there's not much competition. It's something I've considered, especially if the work I'd be doing would use "soft skills" that I find interesting to exercise.

However, I am personally a market socialist. I've been a leftist my whole life, so I don't think me being some sort of socialist will change. Technically, finance would still be an industry in a market socialist society, it would just be much less profitable. There wouldn't be huge accumulations of capital.

Anyway, I think I'd be fine personally working in finance as long as the work is interesting. But I don't know if I'd be shut out of higher paying positions just for my beliefs. I was also considering other ivies like Dartmouth, a place that heavily places into finance, and it seems like everyone who goes into wall street is a fratty white boy.

Now, I don't necessarily care. I chose Brown because of the culture fit. But if a lot of people on the street are like this, I'd probably be shut out of higher level positions, just because I might seem like a radical. Building connections is also important, so I don't know if people would be turned off by my beliefs.

Working in finance or consulting, do you know any leftists? What sort of treatment have they had from others there? Has their advancement been stifled by their beliefs?

I'm also bisexual and non-white, so I don't fit into the stereotypical popular view of a wall street guy. I'm not weird or edgy about it though. I don't generally talk about politics other than with my friends.

Have you ever met a socialist or leftist on the street? Not that people would tell you randomly, but once you get to know someone well you generally know about their political beliefs.

What do ya'll think of my situation? Any help or advice would be appreciated.

That former loser CEO of Goldman was some global warming faggy lib with a Prius.

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May 3, 2018

"These days, the American dream is more apt to be realized in South America, in places such as Ecuador, Venezuela and Argentina..."
- Bernie Sanders, 2011

"Zoo animals are being stolen from parks in western Venezuela and police believe they are being snatched to be eaten by the starving local population."
- Venezuela, 2017 - https://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2017/08/1...
How many more times do we need to see socialism tried before we as a species realize it does not work?

OP isn't socialist through and through. Like most others, he probably likes the idea of sounding noble about the "common good," but when it comes to his bank account, he wants capitalism.

"Socialism is all fun and games until you run out of other people's money."

May 2, 2018

I'd rather see an elimination of centralized control of the economy. Why is centralized control by private entities so much better than centralized control by the state? The private entity might be slightly more efficient, but they're essentially the same. I'm against both. This is pretty off topic, so please try to address my actual questions. They were real concerns.

If you want a rundown of what I believe, here's a copy paste from another post I made on this thread:

"You're using a definition of socialism that literally a hundred years old, man. Market Socialism is worker's self-management, through co-ops and other free associations, and having Unions in sectors that are not self-managed. I really do hate the government, and I think they function in much the way that large monopolistic corporations do. When you have a truly free market, where actors in the market can be actually competitive rather than be subject to material whims, you have the market actually working.

A group of worker's acting collectively can demand only as much as they are worth to the company they work for. If the company doesn't really add that much value to a product on top of what the worker's make, most of the money would go to workers. If whatever innovations the company adds to their product really does add a lot of value, then the company can just replace the workers.

There is still a competitive market between firms, and therefore market inefficiencies. Wall Street would exist to correct those inefficiencies."

May 2, 2018
LeChiffre:

OP isn't socialist through and through. Like most others, he probably likes the idea of sounding noble about the "common good," but when it comes to his bank account, he wants capitalism.

OP will cease to exist as a socialist the moment he sees the tax on his first paycheck

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May 3, 2018

Well said. People like talking the talk, but very few actually walk the walk.

May 2, 2018

I've worked enough to know the feeling of losing all that money to tax. It'd be easy to run a country without a deficit, those who make fucktons of money would just have to pay somewhat more, and maybe actually reinvest into the economy.

There was this proposal for an elimination of the budget that would revitalize the economy from the progressive caucus a couple years ago. I think it was called the People's Budget. very Interesting.

May 4, 2018

I'd say the majority of finance profession is very far to the left, though it varies by function. Corp Dev/Bval tends to be more free-market oriented while banking/money management is more anti-market (their profession is rooted in the notion of market inefficiency, so it makes sense).

Leftism permeates in finance because of the geographical location of major finance hubs (Chicago, NY, Boston, SF, etc.) So you'll feel right at home.

The real question is, why are you such a hypocrite? And no, finance would not be a private function in market socialism. Capital would be allocated to each organization by the government and within each organization by the workers. You might want to brush up on your socialism.

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May 3, 2018

words have definitions, please look them up.

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May 4, 2018

Care to be more specific, or am I left with this completely ambiguous, cryptic response that I can't respond to? I understand your apprehension. Engaging me on this issue will be difficult for you, but if you don't really want to engage then please stay out.

May 3, 2018

Right of center independents are not leftists. Leftists does not mean any one who dropped out of the klan.

Words have meaning.

Finance is filled with many kinds of people, like the general population, but seems to be a bimodal distribution of liberal republicans (oscillating between parties but perhaps Dem leaning more recently) and a bunch of believers who don't when they are talking their book and eating it (right wingers).

Any way, please learn the difference between left and Urban White Rich Democrats.

The right has for years tried to paint any regulation or public investment as socialism. Now people view the word favorably. Playing yoself.

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May 4, 2018

Oh, I thought you wanted to have an interesting discussion on market socialism. Instead, you're pushing boring political garbage. Okay, you don't believe there are that many liberals/socialists in finance. Great! Why are you telling me? Share your views with the OP.

May 2, 2018

You're using a definition of socialism that literally a hundred years old, man. Market Socialism is worker's self-management, through co-ops and other free associations, and having Unions in sectors that are not self-managed. I really do hate the government, and I think they function in much the way that large monopolistic corporations do. When you have a truly free market, where actors in the market can be actually competitive rather than be subject to material whims, you have the market actually working.

A group of worker's acting collectively can demand only as much as they are worth to the company they work for. If the company doesn't really add that much value to a product on top of what the worker's make, most of the money would go to workers. If whatever innovations the company adds to their product really does add a lot of value, then the company can just replace the workers.

There is still a competitive market between firms, and therefore market inefficiencies. Wall Street would exist to correct those inefficiencies.

May 4, 2018
clubapple123:

You're using a definition of socialism that literally a hundred years old, man.

No, I'm not. I'm using an accurate description of market socialism as espoused by Oskar Lange and Abba Lerner in the 1920s.

clubapple123:

Market Socialism is worker's self-management, through co-ops and other free associations, and having Unions in sectors that are not self-managed.

Market socialism is an economic system where the free exchange of consumer goods is permitted in a market environment and where the manufacturing of consumer goods is done by labor owned enterprises. Producer goods, i.e., capital goods, are public goods. They are not privately owned.

Based on the theories put forth by Lerner and Lange, the state would be able to impute the demand for producer goods by monitoring the demand for their corresponding consumer goods. Through a system of simultaneous production functions and matrix algebra, the state would be able to determine the optimal quantity or magnitude of producer goods, which it would then allocate or distribute to labor owned enterprises. The labor owned enterprises would then be free to utilize the capital in anyway they see fit. In other words, there would be no equity/debt holders.

This theory emerged in the 1920s as a result of the socialist economic calculation debate, first between the Marxists and the Austrians and then between the market socialists ans the Austrians. The Austrians first refuted the Marxists by explaining that a system without markets and money could not produce information signals required for the rational production and allocation of economic goods in a world of scarcity.

Market socialism was the second leg of that debate, and they were just as easily refuted. In case your wondering, the third and final legal was between the Keynesians and the Austrians.

clubapple123:

There is still a competitive market between firms, and therefore market inefficiencies. Wall Street would exist to correct those inefficiencies.

There is no wallstreet in market socialism or in any form of socialism, for that matter.

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May 4, 2018
clubapple123:

You're using a definition of socialism that literally a hundred years old, man. Market Socialism is worker's self-management, through co-ops and other free associations, and having Unions in sectors that are not self-managed. I really do hate the government, and I think they function in much the way that large monopolistic corporations do. When you have a truly free market, where actors in the market can be actually competitive rather than be subject to material whims, you have the market actually working.

A group of worker's acting collectively can demand only as much as they are worth to the company they work for. If the company doesn't really add that much value to a product on top of what the worker's make, most of the money would go to workers. If whatever innovations the company adds to their product really does add a lot of value, then the company can just replace the workers.

There is still a competitive market between firms, and therefore market inefficiencies. Wall Street would exist to correct those inefficiencies.

Dude...you gotta stop smoking weed.

May 3, 2018

I would feel safer being a communist than a Republican in college or highschool. The second you start having any conservative viewpoint is the second that everyone in the class starts hating you and thinking your a racist homophobic redneck. At least if your communist they have to be "accepting" of your ideas

May 3, 2018

Honest question. Do you think that has any relationship to the ideas or bedfellows the conservative wing has engaged with since, oh say Nixon, or is it just peer pressure/a fad kids go thru?

May 3, 2018

But, who would start these innovative coops?....

Just kidding, this is actually a pretty good troll post. Nobody can be this dumb.

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May 2, 2018

Well, its not. I'm not here to debate politics. Any advice?

May 4, 2018

For what it's worth I was raised incredibly liberal (actually a Quaker), but was a competitive athlete and I love competition so through college started leaning into capitalism more.

Recently, however, I realized that almost no one on either side of the aisle has a good argument for what they believe outside of political rhetoric. Liberals end up managing to call everyone ignorant, and conservatives call everyone cucks without any actual conversation. This thread is pretty good proof of that.

What you end up realizing is that the system is not fair nor perfect, never will be and never was. Just find a couple core things you care about and vote when you can, donate if you can. Unless you decide to become a career politician, or manage to become a billionaire your political opinion will never matter- and calling someone retarded over a forum is never going to change their mind, nor is it going to change that fact.

The system is what it is. You can play the rules the way they are written, or you can bitch about them. Seems like both parties do a whole lot of bitching.

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May 4, 2018

First, don't confuse Europe 's DemSoc parties with old-fashioned socialists. The latter went extinct decades ago. And the DemSoc parties are really about having a strong central government to get done want voters want done.

Second, finance is full of lefties. It provides perspectives that the herds of independent thinkers on Wall Street don't have. Lefties are often the real contrarians and if you're going to be successful as a stock picker it helps not to think like every other country club Republican.

Warren Buffet, who is more left on lots of things than people realize, always credited being in Omaha as one reason he is so good an investor. He saw what Wall Street did not.

May 4, 2018
Auto:

First, don't confuse Europe 's DemSoc parties with old-fashioned socialists. The latter went extinct decades ago.

I'm not sure what world you're living in, but there are plenty of retarded ideologues who jerk their lil' micro-cocks to the original tenets of socialism nowadays.

Auto:

And the DemSoc parties are really about having a strong central government to get done want voters want done.

That's quite the hollow, platitudinous statement.

Auto:

Lefties are often the real contrarians...

This was probably true 30 years ago. Not so much nowadays.

May 3, 2018

Socialism is the bomb yo! Ever wonder why so many Americans make the swim from Key West to Havana!? oh wait...

May 4, 2018

I can't even with some of these posts. I busted a gut. Thanks for the troll OP.

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May 4, 2018

@clubapple123 did you ever get a response to your initial question?

May 4, 2018

First, the salary only stays very close from individual to individual when you first start out, there is a lot of variance in the upper levels. Second if IB is socialist then every job in America is socialist. Socialism doesn't exist because people with the same job get paid a similar amount, it exists when everyone that does a different job is forced to accept the same/similar pay.

May 4, 2018
Gekko21:

First, the salary only stays very close from individual to individual when you first start out, there is a lot of variance in the upper levels. Second if IB is socialist then every job in America is socialist. Socialism doesn't exist because people with the same job get paid a similar amount, it exists when everyone that does a different job is forced to accept the same/similar pay.

Either this guy gets you every time or you're the most tactical double-troller on this site.

May 4, 2018

Investment Banking is probably the least socialist profession out there.

May 4, 2018
Walkio:

Investment Banking is probably the least socialist profession out there.

THIS

Hamilton:

hahaha. Your too funny to be banned.

AND THIS

May 4, 2018

Troll is successful.

The answer to your question is 1) network 2) get involved 3) beef up your resume 4) repeat -happypantsmcgee

WSO is not your personal search function.

May 4, 2018
May 4, 2018
May 4, 2018

The answer to your question is 1) network 2) get involved 3) beef up your resume 4) repeat -happypantsmcgee

WSO is not your personal search function.

May 4, 2018

"Have you ever tried to use a chain with 3 weak links? I have, and now I no longer own an arctic wolf."
-Dwight Schrute

May 4, 2018
May 4, 2018