How do you guys deal with envy?

So, I was browsing my flipboard and stumbled upon an article by business insider:

http://uk.businessinsider.com/shark-tank-investor…

I have to say these kids really make me feel bad about the amount of time I don't spend studying or doing something productive and just how bright their future seems to be.
But this isn't the first time I feel this way and sometimes ask myself on whether I am really cut out to become wealthy.

Anyways, when it comes to dealing with envy I simply ignore it until I forget what I was envious about, what about you guys?

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Comments (181)

Dec 4, 2016 - 8:22pm

There is so much luck involved in making a lot of money.

At work we're only a few phone calls from making an extra million or two dollars a year. Can it happen? It actually is quite easy & could theoretically happen any day.

Will it happen? Almost definitely not. It happened once and those contracts lead us (the owner) to making millions and millions of dollars over the years.

This kid was quite lucky to get a response from this dude. Honestly, the most probable thing would have been radio silence.

Array
Best Response
Dec 4, 2016 - 11:12pm

Don't be envious.

The fact that these guys are working 130 hours a week is a fucking lie. I've seen that particular number bandied around a lot, and no one is able to sustainably concentrate and do quality work 130 hours a week. It's a gross exaggeration. Everyone wants to show about how much their working and are willing to lie to do so.

Regarding what they're doing, I wouldn't be too jealous of somebody creating an email finding app/plugin (this is being done by 10+ companies). Getting an internship with a VC firm is cool, but not earth-shattering. Any outsize success these kids might achieve will come from building a great business, not an internship. Building a successful company is very difficult and will take a lot more than a VC internship, coding skills, and some free PR. Frankly, as someone in VC, I'm going to be unimpressed about an entrepreneurial venture until the founders drop all commitments (including their job and school) to focus on their startup and get sales outside of easy PR and their network.

I don't want to completely shit on these kids, as what they're doing is certainly better than playing video games or spending 5 hours a day on social media. My main criticism is directed at the media, which needs to stop exaggerating and outright lying about important aspects of these kids lives. Many people read stories about what their peers are doing and assume everyone is light years ahead of them. The reality is that the media will only report on these people when they're promising or achieve some minor success and then forget about them when they go on to have fairly unremarkable lives. The number of under-22-year-olds who start doing something "cool" at a young age in the realm of business and go on to become legends can probably be counted on your hands (think Zuckerberg, Gates, Spiegel, etc.) Look at former Thiel Fellows, Forbes 30 Under 30, etc. and you'll get my point.

Put 100% effort into what you're passionate about and you'll find that you have the opportunity to leapfrog your peers and the prodigies the media talks about.

Dec 9, 2016 - 12:44pm

+1 SB. I couldn't have said it better myself. I have read numerous similar articles in the past, even at my company, that promotes such things similar to it (and it's all rubbish). Many of the things people actually do (build a successful company, hire new people, etc.) are never reported by the media.

I don't get why people care about this crap so much.

Dec 13, 2016 - 4:03pm

What Gangster Putin x 1000. Anyone claiming they are working 130 hours per week is either full of it or a total moron. There is no way these kids are working 18.5 hours and getting 5.5 hours of sleep per day, seven days a week. I mean seriously... when do they jerk off? You know they aren't getting laid, and you know they definitely are making time for video games. If they are only getting 5.5 hours of sleep every day, I want to know who their coke dealer is, because that's some good shit.

Dec 5, 2016 - 2:05am

Focus on your own game. What I mean by that is: set out different goals or milestones that you want to hit in 3 months time and start moving the ball down field. Steadily improve and grow and you'll be set.

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Dec 9, 2016 - 11:42am

i don't envy other people because i focus on myself and what i can achieve with what i have.
being envious is just a negative emotion that'll pull you down without you noticing it.

I'm talking about liquid. Rich enough to have your own jet. Rich enough not to waste time. Fifty, a hundred million dollars, buddy. A player. Or nothing.

See my Blog & AMA

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Dec 9, 2016 - 12:22pm

Cut out to be welathy? Maybe you're focusing on the wrong things. If you really want, you can do almost anything you put your mind too, so grab your ski-mask and go to town. Plenty people have gotten wealthy that way.

**How is my grammar? Drop me a note with any errors you see!**
Dec 12, 2016 - 5:56am

It's called Survivor Bias. You see on TV the .01% of 22 year olds that followed a business idea and were able to make it work. Note that every path as a 'success point', the percentile you'll need to be to actually make good money via that path. There's nothing wrong doing finance (low success point) over running a business (very high success point). Hell at the .01% level, there's not even much difference in compensation. The .01% of finance guys are at Jane Street or DE Shaw pulling in 7-8 figs a year by age 27. Not bad for someone in a 'career'.

Dec 12, 2016 - 7:42am
  1. The kid is full of shit. First of all, he includes time at highschool in those 130 hours. Lunch and gym class and talking to girls between classes is not work. Second, does he spend every other waking hour on his company? No friends? No girls? No physical activity? No his mom making him do chores around the house?

  2. Even if he does, why in the world would you envy him? Because he'll be rich someday? Who gives a shit. You could be rich someday too without ruining your childhood. You might even fuck girls, make friends, play sports, and have a social life along the way.

Commercial Real Estate Developer

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Dec 12, 2016 - 8:07am

When I was in high school, the majority of my friends were both smarter than I was and came from wealthier backgrounds than I did. While they were getting "A"s in AP chemistry and getting BMW M3s for their 16th Birthday, I struggling through regular chemistry and driving a ten-year-old Honda. It can definitely be tough at times, but you have to understand that everyone is walking in different shoes and that there will always be someone smarter, richer, better, etc. than you. My advice, and what I personally do, is to just focus on myself. If I am doing the best that I can at something, that is all that I can ask for. Someone will always be better.

Dec 12, 2016 - 9:59am

Agree with a lot of the aforementioned posts. Envy is a negative trait that only distracts you from your goals. Use that energy to focus on your passion/productivity. You shouldn't care about people that have no bearing/impact on your life. Furthermore, there are tons of (wildly) successful people that were late bloomers and achieved millionaire/billionaire status later on in their life. You too have an opportunity to do that.

Array

Dec 12, 2016 - 11:50am

When I feel jealous/envious, i just simply do something that can make myself better. Even maybe 50 squats.

I mean, if I do 50 squats every time I feel jealous of someone, I will at least have a nice butt at the end of the day. Right? (and maybe someone else will be jealous of my butt)

Dec 12, 2016 - 12:59pm

The key to happiness is to avoid looking at or worrying about how other people are doing. And the secret to not worrying about how other people are doing is to notice it when you are.

This industry is filled with a lot of people who are obsessed with money. And I will cop to that. I like saving money; I like investing money. I suffer from long-term greed. But the saving grace for me is that I'm not obsessed with conspicuous consumption. If I have a better life than you, I don't have to have a better car than you.

Again, the key is to notice envy and address it. Notice it when you're spending money to impress other people. Notice it when you feel bad that someone has a better car than you. And then address it:

"I don't need a nice car to be happy. I'm glad I have a car."
"It is foolish to spend money I shouldn't spend to buy things I don't need to impress people I don't even care about."
"Wealth doesn't define my quality or dignity as an individual" (though I'd argue that there is genuine virtue in earning money honestly and spending less than you earn-- whether that's $5K or $5M)

There's other stuff you can do to short-circuit this negative thinking around conspicuous consumption. There's a gazillion jokes you can run with the fact that you can rent a BMW for $20/hour with Zipcar or a Ferrari for $100/hour with any number of organizations out there.

But if you accept the premise that net worth has no correlation whatsoever with anyone's value as a human being, and that attitude and work ethic matter more (and are different from net worth), and if you try to treat others that way, it gets a whole lot easier to not get sucked into envy. It gets a whole lot easier to not worry when you see a Ferrari pass you (or, failing that, you can always have some fun and ask the dude where he rented it).

Back to my rusty honda.

Dec 12, 2016 - 2:20pm

I've always been good with not browsing social media but a couple years ago I was obsessed with following tech newsletters and quant finance blogs. I'd see people my age or younger at the time raising 8 or 9 figure C rounds, kids choosing which top-tier quant trading firm offer they wanted to pick, etc. For all the discussion we hear about how social media cultivates disappointment in oneself by comparing against the highlight reels of your friends, we don't give nearly the same assessment of that to industry media.

Seeing Snapchat valued at $25 billion is really no different than seeing your friend post a photo of himself in Croatia on a yacht. It doesn't concern you, there's a lot more than meets the eye, and there's nothing you can do about it.

Nowadays, the only things I read are textbooks/reference books, and industry non-fiction books. I couldn't care less about what tech company is doing what, just like I don't give a shit about who went to that siiiick club last night on Instagram. Envy is stupid.

Dec 12, 2016 - 2:23pm

First rule of Fight Club is to never, ever read anything Business Insider.

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Dec 12, 2016 - 2:45pm
TNA:

First rule of Fight Club is to never, ever read anything Business Insider.

There's junk food for your stomach, and there's junk news for your brain. BI is junk news. Don't read it. The headlines are designed to make you angry offended or jealous and suck you into their PT Barnum like posts.

Those of us old enough to remember the dot-com days know that nothing good can come from listening to Henry Blodget.

Dec 13, 2016 - 1:52am

I think people are annoyed at the '130 hours' thing because it implies that people less successful didn't work hard enough. Always remember that hard work and success are nowhere near directly correlated. Single moms with 3 jobs are working harder than you and you're the one making $200k/year. Why? Because you went to the right school, got the right internships, networked like a king, and studied financial-modeling/probability/econ. Just how it is.

Dec 14, 2016 - 9:33pm

... And were fortunate not to graduate in 2008 or 2009, come from a stable family that promotes education and can pay for a good school, not be blindsided by serious, life-threatening illness, etc.

Dec 13, 2016 - 6:17pm

Yeah he didn't live up to his ideals, but it's fallacious to say that his ideals were unreasonable because he couldn't live up to them. And he won in that his works are more popular and influential today than those of his contemporaries.

To stay on the topic of his ideas rather than the man, all he advocated for was freedom to make lifelong progress towards meaningful goals instead of settling for less and being 'content' with mediocrity. Austere suppression of envy would detract from a life of working hard towards lofty goals.

Dec 15, 2016 - 11:02am

Jealous Classmates? (Originally Posted: 11/27/2014)

Some of my classmates are kind of jealous of some of the kids who got better offers now that work has been going for a few months. I keep telling them to just chill and try to lateral next year.

Anyone got some tips to keep things in perspective and keep the jelly off their daily routine?

Pennies from JcPenny
Dec 15, 2016 - 11:03am

Not really your problem - most likely the kids who got better offers deserved them, and the jealous kids likely have no one to blame but themselves/have nothing to complain about.

To put things in perspective, compare their jobs to "regular" jobs and the financial/work situations the average/majority of college students are in.

Dec 15, 2016 - 11:07am

notthehospitalER:

Not really your problem - most likely the kids who got better offers deserved them, and the jealous kids likely have no one to blame but themselves/have nothing to complain about.

To put things in perspective, compare their jobs to "regular" jobs and the financial/work situations the average/majority of college students are in.

This right here. There was a small amount of that in my MBA classmates. Those landing the best paying jobs worked harder than the others, and they earned the benefits of that.

Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
Dec 15, 2016 - 11:04am

don't give a fuck?

heister:

Look at all these wannabe richies hating on an expensive salad.

https://arthuxtable.com/
Dec 15, 2016 - 11:06am

jcpenny:

Some of my classmates are kind of jealous of some of the kids who got better offers now that work has been going for a few months. I keep telling them to just chill and try to lateral next year.

Anyone got some tips to keep things in perspective and keep the jelly off their daily routine?

Just don't talk about it.

When you're stressed and angsty, having someone else telling you to relax etc doesn't help. Particularly not if that person has an offer and doesn't feel the same.

Someone with an offer telling those without an offer to relax, keep things in perspective etc is empathy deficient at best, more likely an obnoxious dick gloating.

Those who can, do. Those who can't, post threads about how to do it on WSO.
Dec 15, 2016 - 11:10am

Let them suffer further by telling them that those presumably more hard working kids have been accepting (or even better, rejecting) better offers. Yeah.

Fortes fortuna adiuvat.
Dec 15, 2016 - 11:11am

Co-worker envy (Originally Posted: 01/21/2012)

Envy is an ugly thing. And we all struggle with it. Wondering if you guys have envied a fellow co-worker and how you have dealt with it.

There's this guy at my fund whom i really don't like. We've both had numerous conflicts before at work. Anyways, this guy started writing his own algorithm for a model that trades currency futures. It went alive back in 2010, and last year it KILLED it. His model made around $6 million net, and everyone at the fund is like worshipping this guy. We're getting our bonus in like a week, and i imagine he will get a pretty good chunk of change. Not gonna lie, definitely envious.

Dec 15, 2016 - 11:12am

why don't you like him?

Born in hell, forged from suffering, hardened by pain.
Dec 15, 2016 - 11:14am
AlsatianCousin:
Jealousy and envy stem from insecurity.
If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford
Dec 15, 2016 - 11:15am

brady4mvp is one of the more insecure guys on this forum

that's why he talks about wanting to get the harvard MBA all the fucking time to make himself feel like he's worth something to others

Born in hell, forged from suffering, hardened by pain.
Dec 15, 2016 - 11:17am

That sounds like a pretty valid reason to have a distaste for someone. I feel that every time I've had a similar situation, I've tried to use my distaste for them as motivation to win.

XX
Dec 15, 2016 - 12:08pm

How about just focusing on your job and getting into bschool, and letting go of some distractions...

Get busy living
Dec 15, 2016 - 11:19am
shorttheworld:
The hater/Baller thing def happens more than you think on a trading floor, it's the kind of competitive push that is supposed to push you harder.. So it's not just brady

There's two ways to beat him. One, write my own algo, which makes more money than his. Second, get into a M7 b-school.

Dec 15, 2016 - 11:22am

Brady are you Asian? I've always wondered..

The answer to your question is 1) network 2) get involved 3) beef up your resume 4) repeat -happypantsmcgee

WSO is not your personal search function.

Dec 15, 2016 - 11:53am
blackfinancier:
Brady are you Asian? I've always wondered..

blackfinancier, are you black? I've always wondered that too.

Hi, Eric Stratton, rush chairman, damn glad to meet you.
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Dec 15, 2016 - 12:15pm
blackfinancier:
Brady are you Asian? I've always wondered..

Guaranteed Asian...I only read few of his posts and am fully convinced.

Do what you want not what you can!
Dec 15, 2016 - 11:24am

I think most people would agree that business school is more fun and cooler, but the ultimate goal of a degree is to get a job and make money, right. I mean partying, crushing ass, etc are nice side benefits, but you could go to Miami for an MBA and do that. You go to HBS because you want the brand and great career and some fun on the side.

You don't like your job and the dude sounds like a cock. I wouldn't be jealous of him, I would just go do something different. Honestly, he is monetarily successful at the job probably because he loves it or is engaged. You are focused on B school so developing a cool algo isn't what you are focused on.

Do what you love and you will be successful.

Dec 15, 2016 - 11:25am
ANT:
I think most people would agree that business school is more fun and cooler, but the ultimate goal of a degree is to get a job and make money, right. I mean partying, crushing ass, etc are nice side benefits, but you could go to Miami for an MBA and do that. You go to HBS because you want the brand and great career and some fun on the side.

You don't like your job and the dude sounds like a cock. I wouldn't be jealous of him, I would just go do something different. Honestly, he is monetarily successful at the job probably because he loves it or is engaged. You are focused on B school so developing a cool algo isn't what you are focused on.

Do what you love and you will be successful.

You're right. If you love your job you will find a way to be successful. I'm pretty miserable at my current job and haven't found something better, so i guess it makes getting into b-school that much more imperative.

Dec 15, 2016 - 11:28am
Culcet:
Why are you miserable at your job?

I find the work very uninteresting and boring. Every morning when my alarm clock goes off, I feel fucking miserable. It of course doesn't help when i constantly get texts from my b-school buddies about their parties, travels, and girls they're banging.

Dec 15, 2016 - 11:27am

I've never envied any of my colleagues, or really anyone at our firm, for anything work related.

I suppose I've always viewed their success as a good thing for my career. I've had mostly good relationships with the people I've worked with so it's like having someone successful in your network who knows you well. That said. There's nothing like some healthy competition to get one focused on a task / goal.

When I was a 2nd year analyst we hired a guy at my level who was a lot more connected than I was. I used that as a motivator to start building out my network. It was a good push to have early in my career.

However, in your case, the rivalry doesn't seem healthy. Especially as he has tried to get you fired. Make sure you are positioned well politically in the firm and are doing a good job / can make people money.

I would also focus on developing yourself in absolute terms instead of benchmarking yourself to this guy. You should be setting the agenda for what matters for your success at work and in your personal life (jobs, credentials, academics, professional network, personal relationships, family, social impact, popularity, travel, etc...).

Dec 15, 2016 - 11:30am

Give him a bat wing. There is no way that guy could possibly top that.

Follow the shit your fellow monkeys say @shitWSOsays

Life is hard, it's even harder when you're stupid - John Wayne

Dec 15, 2016 - 11:31am

Most of you must have never stepped foot near a trade floor. Telling brady to see a shrink. Everyone on a trade floor wants to beat everyone too. You secretly want everyone to do well (any bozo blowing up could hurt your year) but you also secretly want to be #1.

Has nothing to do with insecurity has to do with the nature of the job.

PS: getting into a M7 school won't beat him guy, you need to write your own algo.

Dec 15, 2016 - 11:32am
marcellus_wallace:
Most of you must have never stepped foot near a trade floor. Telling brady to see a shrink. Everyone on a trade floor wants to beat everyone too. You secretly want everyone to do well (any bozo blowing up could hurt your year) but you also secretly want to be #1.

Has nothing to do with insecurity has to do with the nature of the job.

PS: getting into a M7 school won't beat him guy, you need to write your own algo.


I think everyone's posts are factoring Brady's previous post history and not just this isolated incident.
Dec 15, 2016 - 11:40am

Brady, is there a way you could lateral into your target role/firm? If not, have you already networked and met with/spoken to senior folks at those funds?

If you do that now you might be able to side-step the b-school experience or at the very least position yourself well for recruiting once you are admitted.

Dec 15, 2016 - 11:42am
Relinquis:
Brady, is there a way you could lateral into your target role/firm? If not, have you already networked and met with/spoken to senior folks at those funds?

If you do that now you might be able to side-step the b-school experience or at the very least position yourself well for recruiting once you are admitted.

Relinquis, great question. Yes, I have talked to tons of people and done networking. They all said the same thing without exception: "Given your lack of experience in IM, your only shot is a top b-school. And even then, you will have to bust your ass off with stock pitches and interviews." But with M7 programs, I will at least have access to all the companies I want to work at, through ocr, company presentation, networking events. I still have to work hard of course, and I'm not expecting a handout, but at least I will be given the opportunity to get my foot in the door.

Dec 15, 2016 - 11:44am

"I thought I was depressed until I realized I was just surrounded by assholes"

If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford
Dec 15, 2016 - 11:49am

Brady, I see your point. I think you should try to do well at your firm while you're there (algorithms, lead an initiative, or however you make money), but keep working towards your other goals. On two separate occasions I had been promoted a month or two prior to submitting my resignation. If I hadn't found those new roles I would have at least been able to benefit from the promotions and extra cash.

Also, date more... hang out with your friends & family more... and try out new activities (sports, arts, short trips, whatever, etc...). It will give you more perspective and will help you find the balance you need to get through a tough career period.

Dec 15, 2016 - 11:50am
Relinquis:
Brady, I see your point. I think you should try to do well at your firm while you're there (algorithms, lead an initiative, or however you make money), but keep working towards your other goals. On two separate occasions I had been promoted a month or two prior to submitting my resignation. If I hadn't found those new roles I would have at least been able to benefit from the promotions and extra cash.

Also, date more... hang out with your friends & family more... and try out new activities (sports, arts, short trips, whatever, etc...). It will give you more perspective and will help you find the balance you need to get through a tough career period.

Thanks for the sound advice. I got a 10% payraise back in november after a very good review with my boss. The guy likes me a lot despite the rough patch we had earlier. But I'm still not satisfied and felt nothing. The problem is not the money. It's that i genuinely don't like the work i'm doing to the point that i suffer from depression AND i feel that my company is hurting my chances at a M7 b-school.

I am going out more than i normally am. But chicago winters are brutal, so it's tough to go out. More importantly, it's hard to be in the social zone when your professional life is so unsatisfying, and you're fantasizing about b-school. I'm trying very hard though to improve on this.

Dec 15, 2016 - 11:55am

i'm writing an algo based on the correlation between brady's posts and M7 business school mentions. its going to make a killing.

-- sm
Dec 15, 2016 - 11:56am

Brady you ever hear the term putting the pussy on a pedestal?

You need to work on your life RIGHT NOW, and stop creating this false image of a dream that will only let you down once you finally achieve it (which I hope you do).

B-School will not be everything you dream it is, and the bottom line is that right now you are living in a major city making a lot of money. You should be balling out making friends and having a great time when you are not at work. If you arent having fun now with all of your endless resources then you probably won't have the grand old time you're expecting at an M-7.

Also you should envy your co worker, but only in a way that pushes you to try and be better then them. If not then you are in the wrong field.

Dec 15, 2016 - 11:58am
Faddy:
Brady you ever hear the term putting the pussy on a pedestal?

You need to work on your life RIGHT NOW, and stop creating this false image of a dream that will only let you down once you finally achieve it (which I hope you do).

B-School will not be everything you dream it is, and the bottom line is that right now you are living in a major city making a lot of money. You should be balling out making friends and having a great time when you are not at work. If you arent having fun now with all of your endless resources then you probably won't have the grand old time you're expecting at an M-7.

Also you should envy your co worker, but only in a way that pushes you to try and be better then them. If not then you are in the wrong field.

  1. I'm NOT a baller. I don't know how this false rumor got started. Probably by Illini =)

  2. More importantly, when your friends are scattered throughout, and they are busy with work and other stuff, there's a limit to how much fun you can have. In b-school you are all on the same schedule. You're also surrounded by people whom you have a lot in common with. That's an invaluable thing.

I had dinner last night with my best friend and his girlfriend, who are both first-years at a top 5 b-school. While we were eating, they saw their classmates come into the same restaurant. They were all joking about how everytime they go out, they run into their classmates. My friend said, "yeah it seems like we run the city." That type of camaraderie, combined with an endless cornucopia of social activities and travels, is something I deeply crave. I must admit that I felt very envious when they were talking about their b-school experience thus far and how it has exceeded their expectations.

Dec 15, 2016 - 11:57am

Hate to tell you this brother, but if you suffer from envy of peers, you're going to feel like an insignificant shit at an M7 school. ESPECIALLY HBS.

The world is what it is; men who are nothing, who allow themselves to become nothing, have no place in it. -V. S. Naipaul
Dec 15, 2016 - 12:05pm

Fuck envy. One of the top trade finance/treasury guys at my shop fucking hates me because he started here at my age (hes been here for like 20 years now) and was never able to pull off a single trade (which explains his ascendendancy in the bean counting dpt). Every time I come up with a good idea/trade I have to deal with this fucker trying to shut it down because of "counterparty risk" or "capital intensiveness" or whatever... ugh. Takes sooo much effort to have to shoot down all his argument.

Dec 15, 2016 - 12:06pm
contagoman:
Fuck envy. One of the top trade finance/treasury guys at my shop fucking hates me because he started here at my age (hes been here for like 20 years now) and was never able to pull off a single trade (which explains his ascendendancy in the bean counting dpt). Every time I come up with a good idea/trade I have to deal with this fucker trying to shut it down because of "counterparty risk" or "capital intensiveness" or whatever... ugh. Takes sooo much effort to have to shoot down all his argument.

Only reason I don't like this guy is because he's a douchebag who tried to get me fired. There are plenty of nice successful guys whom I don't envy at all.

You're in Chicago, right?

Dec 15, 2016 - 12:10pm

When you focus on getting what you don't have, you lose control of your current work.

I was in a small liberal art school, It wasn't a good fit socially and academically. I wanted something more challenging. I put all my energy in trying to get out of my Libart school to go to a bigger school and better school.
Long story short, transferring became my main priority and I screwed up royally.

Went from 3.8 GPA Freshman year to Academic Probation sophomore year. After failing , failing and failing, I realized that despite being unhappy at my current school, I should have focus on doing my best there. Sometimes you try to go somewhere else, it doesn't work. You have to know when to take a break and stop hitting a wall that you cannot break. Taking a break to reevaluate your strategy, your goals, and your desire does not mean that you gave up the fight.

It might help you see things more clearly and understand better where you are, what you have , and where you want to go. So instead of focusing on the HBS admission which you can't control, focus on doing the best job at your current work. Instead of looking at the other guy's work, focus on improving your algorithm, your work, your social and career network. Make yourself better than before.

You think that you will be better by beating this guy, but to be excel, you have to become better than what you were, So don't compete with the guy. Compete with yourself, Strive to become better every day at your work. Keep the guy in check but don't let your envy and your animosity blinded you.

It's the guy that you don't like today, but sooner or later, your emotion will be the same for everyone at work. How do I know? I ended up despising every one who liked my liberal Art school because unlike me, they were not miserable.

Michael Corleone said that we should not hate our enemies because hate blinds our judgement. One day, the guy could do something that would put you at an advantage but you will fail to grab the opportunity because your envy toward him will make you doubt his intention.

No one would remember the Good Samaritan if he'd only had good intentions; he had money as well.
Dec 15, 2016 - 12:11pm
Yohoo:
Michael Corleone said that we should not hate our enemies because hate blinds our judgement.

Nice
Get busy living
Dec 15, 2016 - 12:12pm

1: 'Others may hate you. But those who hate you don't win unless you hate them. Then you destroy yourself.' #2: Tupac?

Dec 15, 2016 - 12:14pm

Brady,

Honestly it sounds to me like you are going to be miserable no matter what. You seem to be getting self worth from comparing yourself to others, you don't seem to be able to make new friends, and you don't seem to be happy even when you are active. I have a feeling that even if you get into HBS your happiness will be fleeting. You'll end up not making the great friends you thought you would, not dating the hotties you dream about, won't get the ego boost you think you will, and you'll be unhappy even when you are partying because of those things.

It seems to me you need to do some work on your inner dialogue.

Dec 15, 2016 - 12:16pm
blackfinancier:
Brady are you Asian? I've always wondered..

Aaaaayyyy...
bossman:
Guaranteed Asian...I only read few of his posts and am fully convinced.

And double aaaayyyyy!
Ari_Gold:
Dude, no offense, but are you sure they are your friends instead of friendmies (or whatever the spelling of the term is),

Frenemies. Alternatively, frenulum (pl: frenula) works, in a pinch!
Dec 15, 2016 - 12:17pm

My friend's uncle owns a 3B hedge fund, how do I fight these feelings of jealousy? (Originally Posted: 12/03/2010)

Hi all,

Graduating from a semi-target this year, and the only offer I got is a big 4 audit gig. Although happy I "got a job" in this economy, I'm a double major in Acc/Finance and strongly pursuing an FO Banking/HF analyst type role.

So reason I'm posting is that my friend's uncle runs a massive fund out in Connecticut, and basically his whole family gets a right of passage to work there. His brother is an absolute retard but is a VP there at 27. I know life isn't fair, but this is such a non-motivator, how do you not get jealous when you see these things.

Dec 15, 2016 - 12:19pm

It is what it is dude, so use it as a motivaitonal tool. If he is your buddy, why don't you ask him if you can intern at his uncle's shop?

Alternatively, ask him if he would ask his uncle to have a cup of coffee with you. Impress him with your enthusiasm and ask for an internship. Failing this, ask him if he could suggest anyone else you should talk to and get their contact details. The HF commuity is very small so the chances are he'll know someone.

If you have been referred to someone by somebody that they know and respect it's very difficult for them to turn you away.

Repeat this procedure until you get a job.

Dec 15, 2016 - 12:20pm

Tudor Jones?

Regardless, you are correct in being happy obtaining a job in this economy. Rather than be jealous, go kick ass for a year at your big 4 gig (there are far worse places to be, btw), network your ass off, continue your search and get into the role you really want.

Wouldn't you rather be the guy who defied the odds and got a position he earned, rather than be some useless pussy born with a certain last name. Too much time is spent on this site analyzing bullshit (ie linkedin profiles, league tables, what groupisbest etc.). Take it from me, my route = non target -> middle market bank -> VC (networked into internships and current position now) - and I didnt' spend time bitching how my boy got a job at SAC because his daddy plays golf with someone there.

Final thought - if he is your boy, why not use the fucker? Ask him for an introduction to his uncle, or his "retard brother" - who if you probably take to a strip joint after pounding 5 Four Lokos will have you in the office next week.

"Jesus, he's like a gremlin; comes with instructions and shit"
Dec 15, 2016 - 12:21pm

Everyone talks about networking on this forum. Your friend's uncle is at the top of this HF. Use your goddamn networking skills and get an interview. Unless your resume doesn't even come close to matching up with what you need, even so you can make a new contact for when you prove yourself in the business world.

I think plenty of people here would be jealous of YOU for having the opportunity to talk to your friend and try and get a job that way, get on it son!

"You stop being an asshole when it sucks to be you." -IlliniProgrammer "Your grammar made me wish I'd been aborted." -happypantsmcgee
Dec 15, 2016 - 12:22pm

A little psychology here. Another way to look at this is that if you are jealous in your "friend" then you probably are not really friends with him. Therefore, quit the charade and cut the guy out of your life because I don't think you like this guy. Or be opportunistic, and like other people here suggested, find a way to leverage this guy into something good.

Dec 15, 2016 - 12:23pm

It all comes down to the size of your balls. If they are big, you'll talk to the kid's uncle and not blink twice. If not, then you'll have to learn the hard way being a puss doesn't pay.

Best of luck.

Dec 15, 2016 - 12:24pm

your friends uncle runs a hedge fund and you sound sad, what the hell is wrong with you

"I came, I saw, I networked"
Dec 15, 2016 - 12:26pm

I would need more than two hands to count how many people I know at top shops GS/MS/JPM who got in solely on the basis of who their dad/mom/family was. I'm talking about people who have less than 3.0 GPA's, and can barely form coherent sentences.

Life is not fair. First lesson of life.

Dec 15, 2016 - 12:28pm
ibhopeful532:
I would need more than two hands to count how many people I know at top shops GS/MS/JPM who got in solely on the basis of who their dad/mom/family was. I'm talking about people who have less than 3.0 GPA's, and can barely form coherent sentences.

You're working in HK right? Are you seeing more of this in Asia or in US?

OP - What's keeping you from talking to your friend's uncle exactly? (The answer should be nothing, assuming this guy is your "friend" or even an "acquaintance")

Dec 15, 2016 - 12:27pm

Well, sure, but they offer what is talked about over and over again on WSO: networking (well, more relationship-building, but same idea).

"You stop being an asshole when it sucks to be you." -IlliniProgrammer "Your grammar made me wish I'd been aborted." -happypantsmcgee
Dec 15, 2016 - 12:30pm

From my perspective doing my SA in NY, there were way more than I expected - people don't really seem to hide it either. One of the full-time analysts that sat next to me volunteered the information that his dad was CFO for one of the companies that my BB did recurring financing issuances for. Guess it's not really as much as a taboo to talk about it.

But as a percentage of the analyst pool, definitely more in HK. It's because the classes are smaller, and the asian-dynamic places more emphasis on relationships. With that said - I would say the vast majority of these hires have very impressive academic/work experience backgrounds as you can imagine, and most are as sharp if not sharper than the average analyst. Also, being "stigmatized" as the "relationship hire" has both good and bad connotations. Good is that, well, clearly you're bringing more tangible value to the firm than the average monkey. But bad, is that there's usually a sense that relationship hires just kind of sit back and relax - which can nor can not be true. There are 3 types of analysts:

1). Relationship hire that works extremely hard
2) Relationship hires who's job is to call papa up and ask for a meeting with BB's VP's/MD's
3) Campus recruits who grind the stuff out

Dec 15, 2016 - 12:32pm

Congratulations on the job offer, you worked hard for it.
Don't worry about others. Start studying for that CPA, get into TAS/PwC Corporate Finance, network, study for that GMAT, etc. etc. You've got a lot to do.

And get an interview with your friend's uncle. Mail him a letter.

Dec 15, 2016 - 12:34pm
southernlovr:
I don't know about everyone but I would hate working at a prestigious job I know I got because of my family, etc. I would just turn it down and take care of my own shit

Obviously, if you can get into a prestigious firm completely on your on merit then sure, all the more power to you. But if you can't (like the OP's friend's "moron brother") or you're still to inexperienced to 'take care of your own shit', why not use whatever resources/connections/etc. are available to you? Certainly other candidates gunning for the same jobs would do the same if they could.

Dec 15, 2016 - 12:36pm

I dunno Jimmy, from what I hear lately it's pretty hard to come by a flight attendant position hehe

I definitely agree though, use whatever you can to get a job. I know, personally, I'm very intelligent and I have no problem asking my brother/uncle/dad/whoever to get me a position. Anything to get a leg up. The morons will be weeded out or put in a corner to collect their paycheck until the person that got them the job thinks they've spent enough time there.

"You stop being an asshole when it sucks to be you." -IlliniProgrammer "Your grammar made me wish I'd been aborted." -happypantsmcgee
Dec 15, 2016 - 12:39pm

Read this:

http://classics.mit.edu/Epictetus/epicench.html

This is the handbook for Stoicism. You need not follow it directly (you probably couldn't) but you can learn a thing or two.

If it is out of your control, then the only thing you can control is your response to it. Why let it bother you when you can control how it will affect you?

looking for that pick-me-up to power through an all-nighter?
Dec 15, 2016 - 12:41pm

Worst hidden brag, ever.

Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
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Dec 15, 2016 - 12:44pm

yea sounds like you have shitty friends, congrats on the offer! not sure why ppl slanging MS at you haha

What concert costs 45 cents? 50 Cent feat. Nickelback.

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Dec 15, 2016 - 12:45pm

Lol, help me get over jealousy of best friend who managed to get summer internship in media... (Originally Posted: 08/02/2012)

I was not able to get one in finance...we both recently finished first year of university

zAK
Dec 15, 2016 - 12:49pm

Media is very vague. That could mean he works an unpaid getting coffee for DJ at a local radio station. If you're truly jealous of the fact he has an internship at all, just use it as motivation.

Here to learn and hopefully pass on some knowledge as well. SB if I helped.
Dec 15, 2016 - 12:50pm

lol failure...

Money Never Sleeps? More like Money Never SUCKS amirite?!?!?!?
Dec 15, 2016 - 12:52pm

"Males shouldn't be jealous that's a female trait" - Jay Z

Baby you're the perfect shape, baby you're the perfect weight. Treat me like my birthday, I want it this way and I want it that way. It makes a man feel good baby.
Dec 15, 2016 - 12:55pm

Prop Trading Coworker envy (Originally Posted: 03/01/2013)

Might seem a nice problem to have but it really isnt.

So i joined a cash desk at a prop firm. 3 old timers on it, a mix of manual and algo trading. (i'm pure algo). (i'm about half their age).

Basically within 3 months i'm pulling in the same money, if not more per day, than one of them, who trades manually. We earn as a team, so it'd be good money all around. He was clearly getting a bit pissy earlier when my algos were implemented, but as long as it was earning less than him he was happy jokey etc, Now it's not, (plus its full auto vs, manual and he's getting pissed off, finding trivial shit to blow up about). I'm stuck in the middle. I'm still relatively new to the company, I've justified my place in earning, but this is insane. The more i do, the worse it will get, and he was there at the firm since the start, so is a small stakeholder in the business.

Anyone encountered this before and got any tips on how to handle it? Hiding PnL isn't an option, we all have a counter that tracks it on everyones screens.

It might seem a nice problem to have, and yea its better than the alternative but having to sit there awkwardly throughout the day, day in day out isn't exactly fun. I'm meant to want to make money, not feel bad about it.

Dec 15, 2016 - 12:56pm

I'd pull him aside, and be frank. Just be like listen: we are a team, and to stay as profitable as possible we need to work well together. I have noticed that you seem to be snappy to me lately. Is something wrong? If so, let's talk it out now, and keep it between us.

That's all you can do. Otherwise, you have to suck it up unless it gets really bad. I've had to deal with jealousy issues like this before. Best thing for me was to bring it out in the open, in a private setting.

Please don't quote Patrick Bateman.

Dec 15, 2016 - 12:58pm

To add to this: it covers your own ass if HR/management become aware. You could tell them that he was coming after you, and you kept brushing him off/ignoring him. Then you asked to speak to him in private. After that you have a right to hold your ground to an extent.

Please don't quote Patrick Bateman.

Dec 15, 2016 - 1:00pm

Trazer, I typed that out poorly. I meant that I would speak to him privately first. Then, if HR/management finds out about it down the line, you can always say that you took the initiative to resolve it privately, and he chose to escalate it.

Also: put it in an email.

ex:

I was hoping I could talk to you privately, after we wrap up today. I am typing this because I don't want to get the attention of anyone else on the desk. Thanks.

Then you have a record, and can forget about it.

Please don't quote Patrick Bateman.

Dec 15, 2016 - 1:01pm

DBCooper:
Trazer, I typed that out poorly. I meant that I would speak to him privately first. Then, if HR/management finds out about it down the line, you can always say that you took the initiative to resolve it privately, and he chose to escalate it.

Also: put it in an email.

ex:

I was hoping I could talk to you privately, after we wrap up today. I am typing this because I don't want to get the attention of anyone else on the desk. Thanks.

Then you have a record, and can forget about it.


One other thing: record the conversation and I'm very serious about this. I tried this a year and half ago with a VP and they fucking buried me with work for weeks. With coworkers I can terrify them into submission by reminding them that after a decade of bartending I know the type of people who can beat them to death for a six pack, but that doesn't fly when dealing with seniors.

Bottom line: if he turns around and fucks you, you need a backup plan in the even this escalates and you have to defend yourself before the full partners or god forbid a court of law.

Get busy living
Dec 15, 2016 - 1:02pm

Totally disagree with everything said so far. No offense to DBC, but have to wonder if he has ever walked onto a trade floor.

This is a trade floor, you do not contact HR/Management, you do not send emails being polite, you do not record shit to hold against people in the future. You focus on P&L, grow up and fire back, if he is making jokes point to your P&L and his. If he has issues with you pull him into a room behind closed doors and ask him wtf is his issue, your job is to make the firm money which you are and he should focus on doing the same if he don't get that tell him very effing clearly to get it.

Come on this is a trading firm not a F50 office, issues like these are solved on the floor by the traders and you know who always wins the person with the better track record of P&L.

For all you know maybe what you see as envy coming across is his way of saying slow down and making sure you don't think you are the MAN cause your models are out performing their former styles over the last 3-6months. You will never know if you get HR/etc involved and make it bitching contest, deal with it as men.

Dec 15, 2016 - 1:03pm

marcellus_wallace:
Totally disagree with everything said so far. No offense to DBC, but have to wonder if he has ever walked onto a trade floor.

This is a trade floor, you do not contact HR/Management, you do not send emails being polite, you do not record shit to hold against people in the future. You focus on P&L, grow up and fire back, if he is making jokes point to your P&L and his. If he has issues with you pull him into a room behind closed doors and ask him wtf is his issue, your job is to make the firm money which you are and he should focus on doing the same if he don't get that tell him very effing clearly to get it.

Come on this is a trading firm not a F50 office, issues like these are solved on the floor by the traders and you know who always wins the person with the better track record of P&L.

For all you know maybe what you see as envy coming across is his way of saying slow down and making sure you don't think you are the MAN cause your models are out performing their former styles over the last 3-6months. You will never know if you get HR/etc involved and make it bitching contest, deal with it as men.

if it gets me or him, they couldnt pick me. Now i can walk with my models sure, but i shouldnt have to. I've found a little goldmine on one of them, and its just adding strategy upon strategy. This is only going to go downhill as they keep piling on. Plus he trades manually, pretty stressfully and frantically. Sitting back with a can of coke during the close and watching the pnl tick over, it was fun, now its just awkward.

i mean this fucking dinosaur wont let me automate his fucking strategies, and then whinges when mine do better. I bend over backwards to find opportunities for him to trade, but blargh. fuck insecure people and their egos. He generated more than me at the start and i didnt care,because we're on the same fucking team.

./rant

ty for this perspective marcellus, if it bubbles up again, i'll stand up for myself and just point to the numbers. General theme dont antagonise it, but argue with what matters, the numbers.

Dec 15, 2016 - 1:04pm

marcellus_wallace:
Totally disagree with everything said so far. No offense to DBC, but have to wonder if he has ever walked onto a trade floor.

This is a trade floor, you do not contact HR/Management, you do not send emails being polite, you do not record shit to hold against people in the future. You focus on P&L, grow up and fire back, if he is making jokes point to your P&L and his. If he has issues with you pull him into a room behind closed doors and ask him wtf is his issue, your job is to make the firm money which you are and he should focus on doing the same if he don't get that tell him very effing clearly to get it.

Come on this is a trading firm not a F50 office, issues like these are solved on the floor by the traders and you know who always wins the person with the better track record of P&L.

For all you know maybe what you see as envy coming across is his way of saying slow down and making sure you don't think you are the MAN cause your models are out performing their former styles over the last 3-6months. You will never know if you get HR/etc involved and make it bitching contest, deal with it as men.

You're right I'm in a bullpen, not on a desk. I just said he should talk to the guy privately, and just send an email as a little insurance should it come to a problem, as the guy is much more senior.

Please don't quote Patrick Bateman.

Dec 15, 2016 - 1:11pm

aicccia:
Wtf, show some fucking respect. How long have you been trading?

Maybe you're a better trader than him but I'd still rather sit near him than someone as arrogant as you.


You'd rather sit with the polite kids at the lunch table than some dude who's getting fucked with because he's better at his job than someone who's been in industry for decades?

Really?

Get busy living
Dec 15, 2016 - 1:13pm

In this three month period, when did he start getting pissy and when did it start to affect you? Do you see it getting to the point where you will be unable to do your work or is it just awkward? What happened to the person in your seat and has anyone else shared any color on this dude?

I always find it hard to believe that people get like this in what is supposed to be a meritocratic environment. I'm glad I'm sort of an asshole because I always use situations like this as motivation to kill it even more. Honestly, no one can say a god damn thing if you're making money. Fuck him.

Dec 15, 2016 - 1:14pm

whatwhatwhat:
In this three month period, when did he start getting pissy and when did it start to affect you? Do you see it getting to the point where you will be unable to do your work or is it just awkward? What happened to the person in your seat and has anyone else shared any color on this dude?

I always find it hard to believe that people get like this in what is supposed to be a meritocratic environment. I'm glad I'm sort of an asshole because I always use situations like this as motivation to kill it even more. Honestly, no one can say a god damn thing if you're making money. Fuck him.

It'll be just awkward. He started off all happy and jokey about him making more money than me, I'd added a few strategies ticked over quietly, making about 2k euros / month, total, net in the first month or 2, as well as helping them with their own strategies slightly.

Then i added a strat that ticked over 2-5k a month, (2nd month in), and in the past month, I found a way of generating these strategies pretty quickly, he was looking over my shoulder, i pulled out 20 in about 2 hours and (my aim is to find another 50 by the end of next week), which the other guys are now trading. I was happy to just sit there and generate these with my algorithms and pass them onto the other guys to trade, a few hours after seeing me trade a strategy he couldnt get to work, because he had the logic wrong, he detonates over the most minor detail (hedging the currency of his trades, which is a fair point, I should do it (software isnt installed but thats a technicality, I dislike anything manual so its out of my comfort zone but i'm part of the team so will chip in as required), and says why did I move here, pack your things etc. and sulks the rest of the afternoon.

Ultimately, I aint dumb, the strategies of mine they have require inputs from my algorithms, which are booby trapped (if you dont do a specific something they give wrong values). that need updating. I was going to automate that as well, but I'm keeping that ace up my sleeve. I dont have a noncompete, so if it gets too rough I can walk, and after a week my strategies will break. Your second para is a different perspective. The guy is MASSIVELY insecure, and i can either pussy foot around him, or just keep going my own way. I wont deliberately tread on toes, but I think just ignoring it and being the best i can be is a more constructive view. Agreed on the disbelief in a meritocracy that this shit still happens.

T

Dec 15, 2016 - 1:16pm

I agree with Marcellus here. As long as you are trying to help your team and be humble doing it, I don't see why this guy has any issue. Just stay quiet, continue to make money, help the team, find new strats and build on them - that's all that should matter.

Dec 15, 2016 - 1:18pm

Whgm45:
Sounds like you have the trading side of the job down, now figure out how to work with people.

agree completely. Being high up on the autistic spectrum, i have an innate ability to piss people off,and have no idea i've done it. It's not as easy as it looks. Seeing patterns and trends in large data sets, im game. whether someone wants to kill me or not, not so much.

Dec 15, 2016 - 1:19pm

If he has issues with you pull him into a room behind closed doors and ask him wtf is his issue, your job is to make the firm money which you are and he should focus on doing the same if he don't get that tell him very effing clearly to get it.

Dec 15, 2016 - 1:20pm

The more I think about this, the more I realize that the best thing you can do is to keep focused and keep ballin out. The rest will take care of itself.

Get busy living
Dec 15, 2016 - 1:21pm
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