How much would you pay someone to land you an IBD job?

vlasic's picture
Rank: Chimp | 3

I know WSO has a formal mentorship program, but I'm not sure a) I'm qualified to be a mentor b) I want to participate in such a formal program so...

Background: I recently graduated from HYP and signed with an EB/BB (EVR/LZ/MS/GS). I'm in NYC and have genuinely enjoyed helping friends through IBD recruitment as I myself struggled to understand basic things about this industry / finance concepts until late in the process given my working class / rural American upbringing and liberal arts background.

If anyone is interested in paid one-on-one help with interview prep / resumes / cover letters / networking / general finance career advice, hit me. I would be happy to arrange Skype sessions / meet in person in the city on a weekend once in a while.

I've learned a shitload about this industry the past couple of years and thinking back to how clueless I was at my first information / networking session makes me think I could really help kids out.

I bet this post has a high probability of being deleted, but oh well.

Comments (61)

Feb 15, 2018

You don't think you're qualified to be a mentor, yet you're asking people to pay you to be a mentor?

Why not just try to help kids out who were once in your position instead of taking advantage of them?

Feb 15, 2018

It's a free market. I'm not taking advantage of anyone.

Best Response
Feb 15, 2018

Whatever you have to tell yourself. You're admittedly from a working class background and you're trying to use the knowledge that others passed to you (for free) to charge someone for a service that even you say you're not qualified to provide.

Why don't you take some kids from your undergrad who hail from a similar background under your wing and guide them through the process instead of trying to con some poor kids out of money?

Dunno what is sadder.

A) You trying to do this

or

B) Someone taking you up on this when there are a ton of free mentoring services available already

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Feb 15, 2018

Sorry, just finished paying $200k+ to get a job

Feb 15, 2018

Given the lack of prior experience in this capacity and no guarantee of any result, I would pass on this.

This forum, your career center, connecting with alumni etc are all better options and free.

Feb 15, 2018

Lol this is a joke

Feb 15, 2018

you're not landing someone a job. you're helping someone apply.

Feb 15, 2018

Id pay 10-15k if it's guaranteed.

1) I'd make that back in a month as an Associate.
2) It would take a lot longer than a month to find an Associate role (especially if im not in a banking role now).

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Feb 17, 2018

I would pay 20k if it guarantees me a FT BB/EB IBD offer. If not, then probably 0.

Feb 17, 2018

You sound like someone who would work at Goldman Sachs.

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Feb 17, 2018

I think it's a good idea, but you have to consider that very few unemployed college students have access to a liquid $9k. Additionally, you might want to consider offering something for people looking for SA spots (lower price) because, as we all know, that's the best shot anyone has of breaking in.

Also, confirming whether or not someone actually received an offer might be a bit of an issue, but I'm sure you could figure that out.

Feb 17, 2018

Patrick,

For what its worth, when I was in UG trying to get a job I would have been more than happy to pay $9k, BUT I didn't have that much cash sitting around... and I was probably better off financially than your average undergrad.

I would say though, the biggest issue for me in seeing value in these types of propositions were:
(1) Is the job I'm essentially paying to get actually worth having? Is it going to help me get to where I want? There are a bunch of hack services that offer a similar type of "guarenteed" internship/job offer at some shitty chop shop where you get severely underpaid and do shit work that's not getting you any closer to your goal than you would have been without the job (and with your cash). I suspect that with the reputation of WSO and your integrity, this issue, which is the biggest consideration is a non-issue coming from WSO.
2) Would I be able to get as good or better position without shelling out the cash? This is more of a personal question. How confident are you in your ability? How determined are you? And frankly, how much is $9k worth to you. For me, I would have shelled out that cash just to minimize the tail risk of not landing on my feet... but like I said, thats a lot of money to shell out, especially unemployed and upfront. And if you think you're going to get it from these prospective monkeys after the fact, I've got some great waterfront Louisiana real estate I want to sell you.

MH

Feb 17, 2018

Doesn't hurt to test drive or "beta launch" the service for one year and see how that fares.

Feb 17, 2018

I have $9k, where do I sign? (I'm actually not joking with this)

Feb 17, 2018

Instead of the $9000 cost of it, why not use a flat fee of $2000 and then if you succeed in placing someone, 10% of their first year salary? That would come out to typically around $9000 in total in the end anyway.

This would allow undergraduates that don't have $9000 sitting on hand to be able to do this and solve the issues other members have come up with so far.

Feb 17, 2018

yeah, that is a possible workaround...my concern with that is if we place them, how would we go about collecting the 10% - sounds messy, which is why I suggested the $9k flat (we have WSO's entire rep at stake if we don't return the $7k to a guy/gal who didn't land something, they basically have little risk by ignoring us after the fact)...but I get the liquidity concerns.

@Marcus_Halberstram - thanks for your thoughts. On each

1. Good questions - I think up front it would have to be a job that is specified. So let's say someone is a very strong applicant from an Ivy, but they are only satisfied if they are at a TMT group at a BB, then probably not a good idea to take them.

If someone that is strong from say a semi-target or non-target but has reasonable expectations (maybe they have decent internship experience but minimal OCR) and wants to just land in a FO spot at a MM or boutique/regional bank, that might be a better candidate (because we could likely offer them the most value...)

2. Again, that would be up to the candidate. If they want to minimize risk of not landing a spot, etc. ... I agree I don't see how we'd be able to collect after they got a job which is why I prefer to keep it cleaner without a % of salary. hmmm, not an easy problem here.

Feb 17, 2018

With this method, there comes a lot of contractual issues and actually collecting the 10% of the salary. With Head hunters, recruiters, and all those where they get the money upon placement they have contracts with the employer.

If the money is paid up front the money just has to be returned instead of collected.

Feb 17, 2018

Sounds a bit like a for-profit version of SEO. I think there is a certain segment of the student population that would pay up, but that may not be the people you want to take on.

Feb 17, 2018
Going Concern:

Sounds a bit like a for-profit version of SEO. I think there is a certain segment of the student population that would pay up, but that may not be the people you want to take on.

yeah, well we'd obviously have to screen the candidates...if they are all internationals that can't speak English well, we aren't going to take their $ because we probably won't be able to polish them enough to land a job.

Feb 17, 2018

I'm not sure about the cash flows of the website, but I would be concerned with (inevitably) a huge number of UGs registering just before on cycle recruiting and a large percentage not getting offers (again, inevitable as they competing against each other) and you getting stuck returning an inorbinate sum of money. The $9,000 upfront approach would require an escrow account and considerable self control, so I therefore agree with the $2,000 upfront approach.

Feb 17, 2018

Yeah, I don't believe that collecting on salary would be an option. Can't imagine how complicated it would be (legally) to set up the proper doctrines for collecting on their salary. You'd have to either rely on the good faith of your debtors to pay you back (risky), or set up an agreement with their employers to garnish part of the employee's salaries (have no idea how to even do this). Either way, the liabilities for both parties would be very complicated.

  • Financial Rep in Consulting
Feb 17, 2018

This kind of reminds me of the SEO program except its for FT and this is $9k. If you get into the IB SEO program it basically guarantees a strong internship with top notch firms but they do this by intensively screening people out and making it ridiculously competitive.

Feb 17, 2018

I think it is a great idea, really!
Some of the problems I think will arise:
- It is your network, so the number of applicants is very limited (or you should only focus on this service);
- 9000 k is a lot of money for students;
- I do think a lot of students get offers, but are the people in your network really interested in some guys you want to suggest to work for their company?

Question:
Will this also become available for international students (so also for London banks for example?)

Feb 17, 2018

Suggestion: focuss on guaranteed offers for internships.. I think this might work better, more applicants will receive an internship offer, and you can reduce the 9000 k to probably 2000 - 5000 k or something.

Feb 17, 2018

Headhunters charge a percent rather than a hourly rate because they have networks.
First years basically all go through campus recruiting -- there's no need for intermediaries, unless there's something odd going on (e.g., someone at a campus that doesn't attract recruiters).
For that same reason, firms don't offer bounties for first years, just for experienced hires.

Not sure you can get away with charging a percent.

Feb 17, 2018

9000 straight or no Deal.. Too much problems with the other structure. Put 7000 on separate account in case they don't receive an offer.

Feb 17, 2018

"yeah, well we'd obviously have to screen the candidates...if they are all internationals that can't speak English well, we aren't going to take their $ because we probably won't be able to polish them enough to land a job."

@WallStreetOasis.com well that's the biggest hurdle for this, IMO. These internationals are the ones who need this the most and are willing to pony up the cash. Them and the grads with 2.5 GPA's from non-targets are whom this would appeal to most. I think you've got a great network and amazing insight, Patrick, but I don't think even you can get these guys high finance job offers.

On another note, I'm currently at a BB in a BO role and have $9k sitting around because I still live at home with my parents, so I'll gladly be a guinea pig for this program. The way I see it, $2k is what some people spend on financial modeling courses to try and get an edge, so at the very worst, I'm not out of pocket more money than they are and this program is leaps and bounds ahead of those. I'm no ESL kid and my GPA at a non-target state school was above 3.0, so I'm not totally hopeless. I'd love to see this work out.

Feb 17, 2018

also think this will depend on what type of offer you're talking about. if a high achieving kid from a semi-target was to take this, i feel like he would want top top place. otherwise, something like a good MM bank would be pretty realistic even without WSO's help.

Feb 17, 2018

I understand that you have good intentions here and that it is a service that a lot of risk averse candidates may actually want to purchase. However, I think there is a lot of ways this can go wrong, even in the best case that your network can consistently place each person in their a desired position:
1) Isolating Members: Those members who come to this site for help and guidance will look at this program as an extension of the forum and other services offered. When they are rejected from what I assume will be a highly selective program they will hold sour feelings toward the other services offered from WSO. Any potential sales (interview guides, career mentoring, etc..) will not be purchased by a percentage of the rejected members. Even if it is only 50% of rejects that don't return for services, that is still a huge gamble to take. You have to remember your target market is not accustomed to receiving negative feedback and only 18 - 21 years old.

2) Successful Candidates Feeling Deceived: I can only assume that this service will be highly selective and therefore, the candidates that are actually placed into the program may have a relatively good shot at getting placement on their own. When they receive placement through WSO services they may feel as if they could have done it on their own and saved themselves $9,000. Even a successful candidate could end up being dissatisfied!

3) Don't Guarantee Anything: Just don't; you'd be better off hosting large "GMAT Prep" like sessions vs. guaranteeing that each person in the program will get an 800 (comparison). Manhattan, Veritas, and others don't even guarantee a 10 point improvement on the GMAT after taking their course. Despite that, they still get enrollments every year because of good word of mouth. While there are definitely a ton of nay-sayers it is understood that candidates get out it what they put into it. Much better business model.

I don't know your financials and retention numbers for members but I would assume that this is a huge risk.

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Feb 17, 2018

Thanks for your thoughts...

1) What if we made it extremely limited and don't go around promoting it everywhere? So, for example, we only accept 3 people for this first session, it becomes less of a rejection and more of a function of which applicants got their resume in first. I'm not sure people would take it personally when it is so small, but maybe I'm wrong?

2) This is a much bigger risk, although I would expect that once the applicant goes through all fo our services -- WSM mock interviews, resume review, interview guides, etc -- (and especially if they land a job directly from either my network and/or the WSM network), that they will see a lot of value and attribute at least some of their success to the program. Where I can see less value and this being an issue is if we are accepting kids with BB internships from target schools...I'm not sure why they would apply though? What about the kids that have high GPAs, decent internships from semi or non-targets? They have limited access with limited OCR and could use some intros to get them started and will likely have less interview opportunities, so they need to be ready when they do land them (where the mocks come in).

3) It's a guarantee in the sense that if we aren't able to help the client get an offer in their target industry, a huge chunk of the money they paid goes back to their pocket. We don't want the $ if the person is not happy, but we would like that extra margin if they are placed, largely as a result of the service (again, who applies and who is accepted plays a big role in making sure there is value there).

I'm not sold on this yet, just thinking through on how to present it and how to limit it if we go forward, etc...

either way, thanks for your thoughts,
Patrick

Feb 17, 2018

Don't think you will lose costumers because of rejections. Just state clear it is a very selective program etc. However maybe you can make some kind of program with all te features but not with offer guarantee. This would be great for the rejected persons and for students in general. Price: around 2500

Feb 17, 2018

Some more issues
1) Content isn't a big value add. Enough cheap/free information is out there that anyone motivated enough can teach themselves basics and learn how to model.
2) Improving general interview presence is helpful, but pretty much every school has resources to help with this. Or join Toastmasters (if it is still around).
3) The value of introducing "endorsed" candidates to your network is substantially reduced because the large amount the candidates are paying is well known.

Still probably a better business than low-margin resume review on a large scale. Arguably more useful for consulting/tech where interviews are more critical thinking based and thus harder to straight-up cram for.

Feb 17, 2018

For an offer with a solid hedge fund, I'd pay 100% of my first year's salary. I'm not even joking. I'd be willing to work unpaid for a year - and I can actually afford it once my bonus hits this winter.

This is something I have seriously thought about; I've only held off because it would make me seem desperate, and nobody wants to hire a guy with no options (even if they aren't paying him).

Feb 17, 2018

To look at it from a different angle, this is just a form of insurance. You spend ~$80,000 on your education, why wouldn't you spend another $9,000 for a guaranteed positive outcome?

You know who I see this appealing to the most? The parents who shelled out ~$80,000 for little Johnnie's finance degree. Would I spend $9,000 to guarantee that my kid isn't coming back home to live with me after college? ABSO-FUCKING-LUTELY WHERE DO I SIGN.

On a serious note, the proposed structure is a no-brainer. Even if everything fails, the candidate has spent $2,000 to place him or herself way ahead of the curve. On the other hand, when it works out they've bought a FO job on Wall Street for $7,000. SEVEN GRAND.

On second thought, you're not charging enough...

Feb 17, 2018
Edmundo Braverman:

To look at it from a different angle, this is just a form of insurance. You spend ~$80,000 on your education, why wouldn't you spend another $9,000 for a guaranteed positive outcome?

You know who I see this appealing to the most? The parents who shelled out ~$80,000 for little Johnnie's finance degree. Would I spend $9,000 to guarantee that my kid isn't coming back home to live with me after college? ABSO-FUCKING-LUTELY WHERE DO I SIGN.

On a serious note, the proposed structure is a no-brainer. Even if everything fails, the candidate has spent $2,000 to place him or herself way ahead of the curve. On the other hand, when it works out they've bought a FO job on Wall Street for $7,000. SEVEN GRAND.

On second thought, you're not charging enough...

9000 is a lot of money.. Compared to the outcome, maybe it isn't . But compared to the total time WSO has to invest in it, 9000 is a very solid amount of revenue for WSO.
My question: will there also be an option to only follow the training part? So without the guaranteed job offer? For 2000 dollar maybe?
This way you can increase the public, since you don't have to secure a guaranteed job offer..

Feb 17, 2018

A program like this, for the more general students would work great I think:

- 5 hours of mock interviews with one of our Wall St Mentors
- 3 hours of career consultation with one of our Wall St Mentors
- WSO Resume Review editing service
- Up to 3 tailored cover letter edits
- 1 Year access to WSO Job Board
- 1 Year access to WSO Video Library
- IB Prep pack and any other industry guides if needed

Think this would be worth at least $3000

Feb 17, 2018

Definitely something that many are interested in. Some UGS and recent graduates might not have $2000 though.

Feb 17, 2018

Why not extend it to those already in the industry, and make it more of a network thing. For example i work on the buyside in Toronto Canada, and would like to lateral. Users of this site who are in the industry could review my resume, put me in touch with their network, and help me find a new position. Using the same $9g figure, the person who helped me land a new position would get a portion of the fee, say $3.5K, WSO would keep the original $2K and keep the $3.5K if successfull. If nothing came of this i would get back my $7K

just a thought

Feb 17, 2018

This kind of reminds me of the SEO program except its for FT and this is $9k. If you get into the IB SEO program it basically guarantees a strong internship with top notch firms but they do this by intensively screening people out and making it ridiculously competitive.

I agree. The major caveat is that SEO is able to do this because it is an organization with established relationships at each firm and funnels essentially a target # of interns into each participating firm's summer program. WSO has the network, but I'm guessing probably does not have the guaranteed placement.

For $9k, I'd expect that WSO tries to achieve something similar. After screening and all the prep work, the value add is WSO reaching out to the network and effectively selling firms on the participants in the program. Going forward, you'd probably be able to leverage your successfully placed "alumni" as connections as well for future placement. SEO is more effective in this regard because it was a free program, but I don't see why you couldn't achieve the same with a little elbow grease.

Feb 17, 2018

This is interesting and I would be a guinea pig for this. And the network will only get bigger once WSO starts placing members in F.O position and once they move on to other positions P.E, etc... You guys can expand the "premium package" to other industries.

Though as many others have stated the biggest problem is the 9k and is it guarantee, even though in the end you might end up losing 2k.

Maybe create payment plan, pay in installments and the final piece of it once the offer is received?

Feb 17, 2018

A few others have alluded to it, but my first impression from reading the original post would be to create an ultra exclusive version of LinkedIn for WSO. I'm brainstorming here, but new users could pay to access the general interview prep package, but they could also pay for access to a premium WSO version of Linkedin where they could connect with mentors, certified users, etc... solely for the purpose of finding a job. Gateway users, those persons in positions of hiring influence, could verify their employment through their email address. The gateway user profiles could be redacted somewhat to only show industry, location, firm size, position type, etc... New users could connect with a limited number of gateway users and inquire about available positions within their firms. Upon connecting, the gateway users would be able to view the job seeker's complete profile and resume. If the gateway user felt there was a strong match for a position they would be able to "offer" resume placement for the job seeker. At this point, the job seeker would be able to view positon details, location, etc.. and would be able to accept or decline the resume placement. New users could be limted to something like five resume placement acceptances when their account is activated. Each resume placement acceptance would debit their account. Once the user exceeds the origiinal five resume placements they could purchase additional resume acceptance tokens, credits, etc...

WSO has an incredibly deep user base that spans the global fiancial industry that can and should be leveraged for something like this. Every single firm that anyone would ever want to work for is represented by someone on WSO.

Feb 17, 2018

Thanks, I think that is interesting but the web development behind building our own premium linkedin sounds like it would be overcomplicating things.

We have a strong WSO network, a big group of Certified Users and Wall St Mentors. The program would start out really small for a reason...we want to make sure we are successful placing candidates first.

What if it was $10,000 but 100% money back, not a portion, so that WSO bears financial risk if we don't place the candidate (assuming the candidate does all of the mocks, follows up on intros, etc) ?

If that is the case, we'd use not only the WSM netowrk, but also the Certified User network, my network on LinkedIn, etc in order to try and place the candidate.

We are in the process of launching WSO Premium Packages that will include big bulk purchases for our products/srevices... the only debate I'm having with myself is how to structure the "Platinum" package we are discussing in here. Not easy.

Thanks for all your thoughts,
Patrick

Feb 17, 2018

as someone that had solid grades and EC's at a non-target and was thus shut out of the world of IB/MC, i would have gladly paid 9k if i knew it would guarantee me a job at an MM/BB bank or a tier 1/2 MC firm. if you strike out, it only costs you 2k which isn't THAT big of a deal esp if you've had some internships during college and have some money saved up. if you get the kind of job that you are looking for, then you are set.

i think your target audience should be ppl at non-targets or semi-targets that do well in school but just don't have access to the OCR that the target schools have.

Feb 17, 2018

If I am one of the bankers, what's my incentive to place some random kid other than I am Patrick's friend or just browse the interwebs here? I can just get a pile of resume from HR. I am getting bugged by kids from my school. And my firm won't be too happy if I take $$ to place a kid (even if more qualified). Networking is based on the "help each other" belief, especially if he went your own school, etc. As soon as you throw money in there with some random kid you are talking to only because he paid someone else money, it becomes selfish and less incentive to participate.

Feb 17, 2018

Heres the problem that I see with this. The kids that will be easy to place are going to have internships that turn into offers. The kids that are so-so are also going to get internships at lower tier banks that will also probably turn into an offer. This means that the people that are left over are left over for a reason. While the training and prep will help it probably will not make them more attractive than a top tier candidate. Also you turn into a hearhunter for undergrads, which is something that doesn't exist (for a reason, I would argue). And then as abacab said, whats the incentive for your friends to place this guy, eventually they will tire out of the bombardment you will be sending their way.

Feb 17, 2018

This is a form of insurance. I absolutely think people will pay for it. Take business school admissions consultants. Some ridiculous number of people use them. I've spoken to folks at top PE firms with incredibly impressive stats (Wharton --> Goldman --> PE). They all use admissions consultants because they want to be absolutely sure they'll get into these schools. These folks obviously have more money to throw around than undergrads but I think people would be surprised at how much money some people (or their parents) have while going through school.

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Feb 17, 2018

Maybe this would work better with career-changing MBA students than with undergrads, since they are experienced hires?

Feb 17, 2018

Most MBAs are usually much more polished and understand the importance of networking and are decent at it...I think we add less value there.

Feb 17, 2018

Ask for only $2000 up front, but also ask for two forms of government-issued identifications to make copies of. Have them sign an agreement form that says if the candidate receives an offer, an additional $7000 / 10% of salary needs to be paid within 30 days, or the picture of the violator will be posted on this website on a forum named "Hall of Deceit".

The only problem I see is how do you stop people from not reporting offers to you..

@wallstreetoasis I BELIEVE THIS IS THE BEST APPROACH FOR THIS WONDERFUL SCHEME. SINCE IT'S YOUR CONNECTION/NETWORK, YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO ASK YOUR CONNECTION IF THEY OFFERED THE CANDIDATE THE JOB IF POSSIBLE BEFORE THEY INFORM THE CANDIDATE. THEN YOU SHOULD BE ALERT AND MONITOR THE CANDIDATE CLOSELY TO GET YOUR MONEY. PLUS WHEN YOU'RE PREPARING THE CANDIDATE FOR INTERVIEWS YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO DETERMINE WHAT KIND OF PERSON YOU'RE DEALING WITH.

Feb 17, 2018

spoke with the founder of App Academy that runs something similar. http://www.appacademy.io/#p-faq

I think there is a way to offer an option where there is less $ up front and then collect a % of the salary with a properly structured contract, so we will be trying out best to get something like that set up so that when we launch, we won't price out potential applicants...although the contract may be strict in order to prevent cheating / abuse.

Stay tuned...

Feb 17, 2018

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Feb 17, 2018

As someone in the target market, I would absolutely pay for this. Not even a question.

Feb 17, 2018
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Feb 17, 2018
Feb 17, 2018