How often do you get "matches" on apps?

Coming out of my cage finally after I secured myself career wise. Never been interested in dating before, and currently everything is conducive to going out and getting dates

Trying dating apps for now because I'm still dreading public spaces and quite frankly I still don't have any friends to accompany to any public place

Just hit me how inevitable and intuitive it seems that males on such apps are miserable. on Reddit there's been a recent streak of guys screeching about not having matches in ages. On the other hand, a guy from school can't shut tf up about his dates on the discord server; according to him, just jot down where you work and you'll be good to go. Not to flex, but I work at a top AM company, however I think it's stupid to disclose that to strangers

What's your take? Do you think apps are good? If yes, how to avoid getting inline with most miserable folx online?

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Comments (134)

Sep 15, 2021 - 6:58am

Online dating has been on a growth trajectory, even before the pandemic hit. In the first months of the lockdown they had millions flocking to apps and websites.

Dating online depends heavily on the country/region/city you are located in. And within that region it is about more than looks, it is also about what lifestyle you have, hobbies, logistics, and so much more.

The number of how many match back is part of their secret sauce. You can either track this number yourself (i.e. "I said yes to 100 women online and 2 matched back" would roughly equate to a 2% rate). But, mathematically, it is not that simple. As an example, the apps or dating websites may limit who you are shown to based on factors the other users have set. The algorithm would also not show unlikely matches in the same way as a more likely one (i.e. man is 99 years and woman is 18).

Before I found my gf I matched with about 25 women out of 100 I liked. But 25% is not the rate I would apply here. Some people match with a huge number and then figure out logistics and whether they can even meet based on work/schedules, distance, chemistry, etc.

One could argue that the "likes" or swipes have inflation, just like anything else in life. Both parties have to like a sufficient number of people to weed out the incompatible ones to get a "short list" of 3-5 the could focus on.

  • Associate 1 in AM - Other
Sep 15, 2021 - 8:17am

Ah I see. Tbh this contradicts what I've been seeing online for the past year or so - of guys complaining about not getting matched at all. I live in London so I imagine there's an advantage over a plethora of other cities

One last point though, do you think it's a sticking point in terms of increasing matching chances to at least allude to where I'm working?

Sep 15, 2021 - 8:48am

Very generally speaking, the higher the population amount and/or density, the better for single people. Of any age group, race, gender, etc.
You could find a perfect woman (for you), if she ignores you the next match could be at the next street corner (so to speak). London is an amazing place for single people.

Apps are the way forward for now, until all establishments open fully, until everyone is back at the offices, everyone is vaccinated, etc. it will take a bit more time but eventually we will be fine.

Look, your job/status/income is only one facet. You have your character, value system, faith, hobbies, skills outside of your job, and a lot more value you can bring into the relationship or society. It is important to give an honest, open and complete image of yourself. There is no point in elevating one aspect of your life, and not showing the rest of you or the real you. If you focus on showing your income and status, she may never see the other aspects that could be more relevant.

Don't create a persona. Just be yourself.
Likewise, don't just go out with a girl because she is hot. Look behind hair, nails and makeup.

Keep the dates fun and light, but do keep in mind that this is an adult conversation. Focus on where you two want to go in life and whether you are walking on the same path or whether you are going in different directions.

Best of luck in finding the right partner.

Sep 15, 2021 - 9:02am

If you want to understand this see if you can find the study one of the early dating websites did on this.  They basically found that women are insane when it comes to expectations surrounding beauty.  While men had a pretty standard distribution for attractiveness amongst women, the females rated men on an insanely lopsided scale.  I.e. about 10% were attractive the rest were not, and it wasn't like oh the unattractive men were rated 5s.  No, the "unattractive" men were rated like 2s and lower.  Their curve basically looked like a wave on the unattractive side and a tiny blip on the attractive side. 

So it makes perfect sense why men complain they can't get matches.  

Sep 15, 2021 - 12:44pm

kodi

The algorithm would also not show unlikely matches in the same way as a more likely one (i.e. man is 99 years and woman is 18).

To your point here, it's why in the online dating world, men actually don't age like fine wine. Women--whether it's conscious or not--generally are looking for a generational peer as a romantic partner, so the dating apps that will literally not allow you to contact or even view a woman who places you outside her age range are basically worthless apps for "older" men looking for younger women.

In the real world, I've seen a lot of much, much older men with much younger women (60 and 30, 52 and 33, 36 and 19, 45 and 22 among people I actually know). So, SOME men definitely age like fine wine, but that dynamic 100% does not play out online.

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Sep 15, 2021 - 1:05pm

I know hundreds of girls from 20-35, not one has a partner who is much older. 3 or 4 years is the most common age difference.

Keep hearing that older men are successful, can date below their age group, etc... I have never seen it though, at least not in my circle. Whenever some girl brings up older guys everyone else starts laughing and calls her sugar baby... so not sure if those things really happen?

  • Business School in Research - Other
Sep 15, 2021 - 8:31am

A man's value is based on his wealth, social prestige, and status.

You are doing a disservice to yourself by not flexing your work experience, pedigree, etc. Girls will think you have nothing going for you. 

  • Associate 1 in IB - Gen
Sep 15, 2021 - 8:37am

Man you guys are something else.

that shit only matters, AFTER the girl determines whether you're attractive enough for the initial swipe or not. 

  • Intern in IB-M&A
Sep 15, 2021 - 8:38am
:

You are doing a disservice to yourself by not flexing your work experience, pedigree, etc. 

Holy shit you're delusional. They don't care about how preftigious your university is, how preftigious your firm is, they care about MONEY. Your £150K-200K a year is miserable in London

  • Associate 1 in AM - Other
Sep 15, 2021 - 8:56am

Are you from London?

£150k is like...3-4 times the "decent" wage. Plus (and I don't like speaking this way tbh but here goes) to echo someone above, the "thots" that are targeted in Soho and central London generally hardly make anything lol, because their income is contingent mostly on modeling gigs

Regardless, they're not my target. But just saying, wages in London aren't on the same level

Controversial
  • VP in IB-M&A
Sep 15, 2021 - 1:00pm

Oh, intern. Wait until you grow up a bit. They absolutely care about what you do and how much money you make and this is many, many, many fold higher in big cities. 
 

Somehow there are girls in NYC who work in shit like fashion yet know what Warburg Pincus, Skadden, Bain, etc. are. Some even know the title ladder and TC at each level for high paying industries or are well versed in how carry/RSUs vest. It's madness

  • Associate 1 in AM - Other
Sep 15, 2021 - 9:04am

Defo. That's why I never dated before. Just for the record, I went from 112 kilogrammes to 71 in a year. In imperial units, that's from 246lbs to 156lbs. I'm kinda attractive & in good shape, according to my own standards. So I'm not worrying about it that much tbh

  • Analyst 1 in IB - Gen
Sep 15, 2021 - 9:06am

I get pretty good matches. In Western countries if you have a pretty good body (Calvin Klein model type, not bodybuilder) and work out consistently you can definitely get a date in a week or two depending on how much time you invest in the app. Add to that your style (dressing sharp, etc) or hobby etc, and you increase your match.

Most Helpful
Sep 15, 2021 - 10:24am

Apps are good if you're just sitting on the couch, or  home on a random Wednesday night or trying to meet people that aren't in your exact location. For example, if you live in BK, it opens your ability to meet people in NYC. I wouldn't put it above actually going out and meeting people, for example, if you have friends going out on Saturday I wouldn't stay in to "swipe".

In terms of matches, you have to look at percentage overall and what I'll call "real percentage". Meaning, if you're a guy looking for women, there are a decent percentage (maybe like 20% - 25% I'd estimate) who ether are there to promote their IG page, or are just trying it out without real intention, or are giving it a half hearted attempt but don't want to "meet someone on an app". Therefore I'd probably throw that out and focus on "real percentage", or people who are actually looking to meet people through the app. 

I don't know the stats or data, but I'm sure there is a definite skew for women who are very attractive on the app, probably almost overwhelming for them at a point. However, I've had good success on apps, met some women on it, had some good times. 

I have noticed though, I feel this is more with women than men, that a decent amount of women are extremely focused on finding a partner who checks all the boxes, that they are basically (1) chasing a fake person that doesn't exist (2) don't want to admit to themselves they don't want to date/marry, its just been pounded into them their whole life. I don't mean to simplify men (I am a guy), but for a lot of guys as long as their gf/wife/date is hot they're good to go. 

Sep 15, 2021 - 10:45am

Don't know percentage of exact numbers but I would guess about 3 per day? I will say that I have about 4 pictures of me on travels or laughing. I only have one selfie (me on a boat, not blatantly obvious but you can still tell) and I don't have my firm or profession listed. Simply have "just ask." I do have my school listed (State school). Banking is not the hook, but it's definitely a bonus when they find out what I do, especially for somebody my age. 

  • Research Associate in AM - Equities
Sep 15, 2021 - 10:48am

Honestly it's like 10% match rate and then maybe a 25-35% response rate after that 

Being an average looking guy on a dating app kinda sucks. Especially since girls are now trained to expect perfection (given they have a ridiculous number of options) so this lowers commitment -- forget even commitment to date LT / marry, just even after you mess up one part of the conversation or your first date isn't 'perfect' you're done & she'll move on to one of the 100 guys flooding her inbox 

Try to meet girls offline if you can, unless you're in the top 20% of guys in looks online is not a great channel 

Sep 15, 2021 - 11:32am

I'd look at it as you missed a bullet on those ones. Those aren't really the girls you want to date long term anyway. Imagine being married to that in five years still having to watch what you're saying every step. 

That's what I meant in my post above, there are some highly attractive/successful women who I think want too much and past up guys who are prob ~90% of what they want. Eventually they will end up with someone like 60% of what they want, and be miserable or get divorced and spend the rest of their living saying "men are trash". I'm not trying to say women are bad people, I just think a lot of them are illogical/make illogical decisions when it comes to dating. 

  • Intern in IB-M&A
Sep 15, 2021 - 11:46am

I agree with you. In the case of OP though keep in mind he never dated before and is now trying his luck. Dude lost 90lbs (holy fuck man) and wants to see the light. I'd say he's not committed long-term either, which is fine for now

  • Research Associate in AM - Equities
Sep 15, 2021 - 1:10pm

Oh for sure, I'm also not saying women are bad people at all. Logically speaking, they have now have 10x the choice they had before -- of course they're doing to deviate your behaviors & press a perceived advantage. I get it. 

And you're right in this over-selectiveness & ridiculous standards (driven by social media & dating apps primarily) will eventually be bad for women. Either a) they'll end up settling for someone too late & then be either unhappy / divorced as you said or b) they just won't get married at all wondering where all the good men went. You probably saw the WSJ article of how today 60% of college-goers are women / 40% men. From this alone, 1 in 3 women just doesn't have an economically / socially viable prospect. And for the other 2, some men also just don't care about dating someone with a college degree (while studies show women care deeply about their partner's education). So at end of day this will end up hurting women.

That said, all this societal stuff aside I'd just like to meet regular women and have healthy relationships. You're right that in one sense I've missed some bullets but on another what happens when 95% are women are trained to expect perfection? No idea where that % is today, maybe 60-70%? So it's not quite as easy. Either way we all have to get after it but just saying the pool today is not remotely as good quality (mentally speaking / mindset to committment) as it was 15-20yrs ago

Sep 16, 2021 - 8:36am

No, women are seeking perfection not because of the volume.  They are seeking perfection becuase all of those fucking apps that let them edit and touch up their infinite number of selfies creates this self image that isn't even close to reality.  You legit have 6s that think they are 10s because they airbrush their photos.

Sep 15, 2021 - 12:25pm

I spent quite some time trying different "strategies" or "profile optimisations" when it comes to online dating and i now consider myself an expert who has decent success (as in getting matches). My key takeaways are as follows (in order of importance):

1. Photos matter the most. Forget "story telling" through your photos or whatever the fuck people on the internet are trying to tell you to do. If you are shredded, put a 6 pack pic as your first photo, bonus points if it isn'T a bathroom selfie (think on the beach, at a costume party etc etc). Then you need a profile pic and a frontal pic. Then one with you smiling (the only one!!) and then some of yourself doing cool shit, if you are rich, you can SUBTLY flex a bit. No pics of you in suits. 

2. Bios don't matter at all, don't spend 30 minutes thinking about some "witty & unique" bio, no one reads that shit. If you are 6'3++, put that in, and leave it at that. Forget putting your workplace in it, counterproductive (too long to explain and I'm too lazy, just don't do it)

3. Thats it

Depending on what you are looking for i would consider either tinder or bumble. Tinder is for more causal stuff, bumble more serious. If it is bumble, i would invest some time in filling out the questions. Try to let a bit of your personality shine through, but don't type paragraphs. 

Also, some general pointers: 

1. If she is vegan, be prepared to cringe your way through the date. Not worth it. 

2. If she is "liberal" or "feminist", not worth it. 

3. Beware of the 45 degree angle selfies. 99% time its a land whale. Also, if she doesn't have full body pics, not worth it.

4. After you get her number, ALWAYS try to set up a phone call before the date first. She doesn't want to talk? Not worth it. Most of the time you can tell by just calling the other person and talking a bit whether its a crazy or not. 

5. Don't double text. 

6. If you are fat, lose weight. 

7. If you're body looks like that of a 13 year old boy, hit the gym and come back in a year or so. 

8. You are not going to meet the love of your life online. 

9. If she fucks on the first date, she's a FWB at best. 

10. Wrap up your Johnson, NEVER go raw

tldr: if you are fat, ugly, short, have no muscles, don't waste your time  

Sep 15, 2021 - 12:41pm

4 is old school. nobody really talks over the call anymore. if you're offering that to a girl younger than 25, they'll think you're a weirdo.

9 - fuck girls who don't fuck on the first date, when there's a genuine spark. I don't wanna spend weeks and hundreds of $ wining and dining a girl just to discover we're incompatible in bed.

Sep 15, 2021 - 12:46pm

4 - old school new school whatever floats your boat man. Thats how I do it and I find it sufficiently weeds out the autisms and the crazies and the girls who just aren't invested as much, which reduces flake rate and saves me time. But I also have started to just chatting with them in voice messages as calling indeed doesn't fly with some these days. 

9 - what's your point? 

Sep 15, 2021 - 12:59pm

I basically agree with the general thrust of your advice. I will say, if a man is dedicated to using dating apps, he should consider other kinds of dating apps, such as eHarmony, Match, or Christian Mingle (yes, the sluttiest girls I've met were off CMingle). There, women often do read profiles. The two hottest, sluttiest girls I've ever met in person or on dating apps I met on Christian Mingle. One of those girls messaged me before I really set up my profile. I had written up my bio and hadn't yet put up pics. The other girl messaged me directly, too (after I already had pics up). She had horrible pics up and I didn't even think she was particularly attractive. Yeah, she was so hot that it was depressing being around her. Like, so, so, so hot. I found out that some of the hottest girls have "been there, done that" with the best looking guys and are done with it and then they purposely degrade their photos to "attract" what they would consider higher quality (if not less physically attractive) men.

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Sep 15, 2021 - 1:14pm

On 2 - Yeah profiles which have 'she/hers' are a hard pass or otherwise anything where they indicate they are liberal / feminist 

On 8 - where do you suggest meeting the one then? Lot of people have just removed themselves from offline settings & migrated to the apps. Also would have said 20yrs ago that church would be a good place to meet quality women but our age you have very little of that 

Sep 15, 2021 - 1:33pm

8 - I don't know where you are from, but here in Germany 99% things are open again, so sports clubs, book clubs, anything social really.

Also more generally speaking you want to date/meet people from your second tier or third tier social circle, at least that's where I am most comfortable. Lets say you meet a couple of girls/guys at the local gym or some sports clubs, you befriend them, but you don't try to fuck them. After a while they introduce you to their friends and from there you can try to date some of those friends. Then its just a snowball from there on tbh, you meet more people and their friends, and even more, and even more etc etc etc. 

The great advantage you have if you go this route is that you have social proof already because people introduced you in the first place. You no longer are that potential serial killer that lurks in grocery stores or at the mall that tries to pick up chicks with some dumbass corny pickup line. Its much easier and you save a lot of time.

Now ofc don't go into every relationship with the end goal of fucking that person's friends, try forming a genuine connection with people and enjoy their company. Shit will naturally fall into your lap sooner or later if your social circle is big enough, without you really having to try. 

Sep 16, 2021 - 11:55am

Disagree on 8. Majority of all relationships are from online nowadays - and will likely be the case for marriages too. But agree with the thought in principal - and if you are going into dating looking for 'the one' and some magical match to complete you then you aren't ready for a long term relationship anyways.

The rest is spot on. Most men (people in general) just cant handle hard truths. If you are doughy looking, rail thin, etc. then you need to work on yourself before hitting the apps. Pics matter but the product matters as well. If you aren't somewhat fit and somewhat educated with somewhat of a career then you likely cant polish that turd brightly enough

Sep 15, 2021 - 12:27pm

I try to avoid the apps as much as I possibly can because it's a low percentage play for most guys (more on that in a second), but I and others I've spoke to have noticed that there appears to be a decrease in matches from even a couple of years ago for all of us. Since most of these apps are public companies, my unsubstantiated guess is that they have programmed the algorithm to entice you to pay for features and/or keep you on for as long as possible in order to generate revenues. Again, I don't have solid proof this is the case and maybe it's just cope on our end, but it seems logical from my and others' experience.

Having said all that, I really suggest you avoid dating apps as much as possible. They should supplement your dating life, not be the sole source of dates IMO. I'm an above average looking guy with a really good job (not by WSO standards but in the real world I'm doing great) who knows how to talk to people and has interesting hobbies. I don't usually do great on apps because I'm only 5'7 or so and likely get filtered out on height really quickly. In-person, however, I've had girls way more attractive than the typical woman who "likes me" on the apps be into me and have even had girls who are taller than me barefoot be attracted to me on a few occasions. You'd have never guessed that though if you looked at my apps and saw my mediocre to poor results.

As others have alluded to, women have a lot of options on the apps, so it's really tough for most guys unless you happen to be that classically tall, good-looking dude that women are instantly attracted to. I can't really blame women either, even though it sucks for me, because admittedly, if I had an app that fed me hundreds of Instagram models a day that were constantly hitting me up for dates, I'd start being extremely picky too about physical traits, etc.

OLD is here to stay, for better or for worse, and you should definitely try to optimize your results as much as possible so it remains a source. If you want the best options though, I really think you should focus on in-person approaches/interactions.

Sep 15, 2021 - 1:12pm

Lester Freamon

I try to avoid the apps as much as I possibly can because it's a low percentage play for most guys (more on that in a second), but I and others I've spoke to have noticed that there appears to be a decrease in matches from even a couple of years ago for all of us. Since most of these apps are public companies, my unsubstantiated guess is that they have programmed the algorithm to entice you to pay for features and/or keep you on for as long as possible in order to generate revenues. Again, I don't have solid proof this is the case and maybe it's just cope on our end, but it seems logical from my and others' experience.

I'm nearly 100% certain this is true. This is what I've observed. I log-in, using the free version for a bit. I get some matches, things are ok, but I'm thinking, "I've got plenty of money; why am I being pennywise and pound foolish? Just pay the $20 to up your odds! Geesh!" So, I do that, and my matches go up demonstrably. But what I find out is that, yeah, I'm getting more matches, but the odds are still bad and it's a ton of work. The next billing cycle comes up and I'm like, "Nah, not worth it. Might as well go back to the free version." Then, going back to the free version, the matches dry up to zero. None. Nothing. It's worse than before. 

I think if you pay for premium services and stop, the algorithm has figured out that you're a motivated person in the dating sphere ready to pay, so if they degrade your free account further you will pay up to get back to getting traction again.

Conclusion: get off the dating apps. Even if you're handsome, get off the dating apps. Those with extremely high success on dating apps, paradoxically, are the worst off--it destroys their empathy, makes them incapable of achieving contentment, and when they "age out" of the algorithms and start to show their age in real life, the fall from grace can be tough. Nothing good can come from long-term one-night-stand behavior. Nothing good for the character of man.

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Sep 15, 2021 - 1:20pm

Yeah honestly even if you do crush a lot of one-night stands (which most guys do want) at end of day it sort of dulls your view of the world in believing in love / commitment / etc and it's more about gaming the system where you commoditize the other person. Modern dating in general has hurt both men & women with the apps

I may get flack for this but even excessively hooking up makes you more willing to pump & dump as you know there's something else that's out there vs. trying hard to make the relationship work. It is kind of what it is  

Sep 15, 2021 - 12:38pm

If you've ever been curious if you're good looking or not, get on a dating app for a month. Handsome men have the time of their life on dating apps (my co-worker is very handsome, he's 6'1" and he posts some pics and his alma mater (Ivy League school) and his inbox explodes); the other 80% struggle like hell to get any dates at all. For those like me right around the median in looks and height, we can get some dates with some attractive women here or there, but the effort it takes to get those dates is fairly enormous. For men well below the median (let's say, in the bottom 40% of looks), dating apps are basically a waste of time.

Also, what you'll see is some weird discrimination on dating apps you don't really see in real life (IRL). One of my good friends is married to an Asian woman who he met IRL, but he's admitted to me that he wasn't really interested in Asian women before he met her. There is a very high chance he never would have ended up with an Asian woman if he had met people on a dating app. You'll often see men dating women who are their height or taller (my brother and his wife, my tenants, I've done this), but on dating apps, there is a ton of height discrimination. If you're under 5'8" dating apps are basically a waste of time.

Also, yeah, never share your place of employment. The downside to that is much, much higher than the upside.

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Sep 15, 2021 - 1:22pm

I would mostly agree with what people above said. However, being fit is important, but I think guys overestimate how much hitting the gym helps. Working out makes other guys respect you more, but for girls, once you're fit, I think you're pretty much good to go in most cases. There's definitely marginal returns after a certain point. A nice face and being tall is so much more important to girls. 

Sep 15, 2021 - 1:28pm

not to thread highjack...but does anyone get higher percentage meeting chicks in real life or think they would? Meaning, at a bar or in public you aren't really going up to 30 women within the same time frame, so the rejection numbers might not seem as large. For example, if you're at a club, if there are 100 single women there and you hook up with one of them, do you see that as 1/100 or 1/1? Maybe I'm doing it wrong but I've never had a line of women waiting for me in public haha

If you go face to face it might be harder for someone to say "no" to your face, or you might put more effort into it. 

Sep 15, 2021 - 1:39pm

One trend I learned is that the hottest girls who are also social and well-adjusted are oftentimes not on dating apps. You have to go to clubs or somewhere in real life to meet them. There could be a lot of reasons why, I'm not going to conjecture, but I've met some dimes in clubs and went home with them before, and they usually told me they don't use dating apps usually chalking it up to one or two bad experiences. There are hot girls on dating apps, but if they're actively using the app and intending to meet people from it, a lot of times they are crazy or have something off with their personality. This isn't always the case, just a trend I noticed. 

Sep 15, 2021 - 1:46pm

your experience will vary a lot based on your location (sometimes even different experience being in different neighborhoods of the same city), because:

- different number of people and different interest in dating apps: in bigger cities apps are more popular, but in smaller cities and less affluent neighborhoods of big cities you're more likely to get a reply once you match

- different standards of beauty and different competition: if you're a white man in south east asia or latin america, you'll get a lot of matches, because they love white men and there are not many of them there. if you're eastern european in western europe, you'll get very few matches, cause europeans are racist and they discriminate against poorer nations. if you're let's say Russian in NYC, nobody cares, it's fine, same in Boston, but in Chicago or Columbus/Cleveland for example, they won't like you cause people in there are not comfortable dating somebody different. in Chicago though you'll get a lot of attention from black girls if you're eastern european.

experience can also vary by neighborhood cause a lot of girls have distance set to a walking distance, so often you'll be mainly limited to your neighborhood. if you live in a neighborhood that is famous for gold diggers, like Gold Coast in Chicago, you'll see a lot of girls with bios like "ride me on your boat / looking for somebody with a boat", and girls will be looking for dirty rich guys who flaunt their wealth in their face. so, if you're a younger guy, who may be good-looking and on a right path to wealth but hasn't made it yet, you'll feel like shit living in such neighborhoods. also, if you live in a posh area, you'll face way more competition, and girls will be swiping right on top 10% in your neighborhood regardless, so if you live in a neighborhood where every dude is working out, you may not make it in top 10%, but if you live where all dudes look like shit, you'll be getting all the matches.

so, to tell you the numbers, I can get 100+ matches per day in Bangkok, Manila, ~30-50 matches per day in NYC, ~20 matches per day in Boston, ~5 matches per day in Berlin, Rome, Athens, 1-3 matches per day in Gold Coast in Chicago.

Sep 15, 2021 - 5:32pm

A friend of mine had a formula for determining if a Western European girl was attracted to him.  He'd ask the girl to guess what ethnicity he was.  If the girls said Italian or Spanish, it meant they liked him, but if they said Turkish, then he'd get out of there.

  • Associate 1 in AM - Other
Sep 15, 2021 - 5:38pm

I have a friend in Germany studying medicine. He told me something very very similar to that (btw Germans look down upon Spaniards).

  • Analyst 2 in RE - Comm
Sep 15, 2021 - 8:20pm

Honestly, this. If you're not paying premium, boosts, etc, then it will take forever to rack up the matches. I met my current girlfriend off a hinge boost, which she liked one of my photos. Not sure we would have met without all those boosts. Completely worth it, happiest I've been in ages. 

  • Analyst 3+ in RE - Res
Sep 15, 2021 - 5:21pm

I am 5'8 and Indian. Objectively above average looks, but somewhat feminine / pretty rather than masculine. Work out a ton so large muscles for my height and 8-10% BF. 

Get maybe 1-2 decent matches a week since moving to SF. Shits tough. Got way more in NYC, maybe 1 date a week which was enough for me.  

Having less opportunity has taught me how to act on it though - close to 100% close rate if I do get a girl on a date. I would probably do better in bars as I am very confident / know exactly what to say to women, but I don't have a compelling enough profile to draw attention online. 

  • Associate 1 in AM - Other
Sep 15, 2021 - 5:52pm

Good on you man. I'm a bit taller but I have 12% body fat, which is still decent

Can you elaborate what you mean by acting on it? Also do you think your looks is the sticking point?

  • Analyst 3+ in RE - Res
Sep 17, 2021 - 11:37am

I mean when you only get 1 date a month you put in a lot more effort into making sure the date goes well. 

By contrast, my roommate gets dozens and dozens of matches. Not amazing girls by any means, but he always has 2-3 potential dates a week it seems like. We went on a double date together once and the the difference between us was pretty telling. He had absolutely no game, not a single interesting story to tell, couldn't make them laugh, etc... Put into context how often he would come home from dates empty handed. Meanwhile I had my routine of stories, jokes, and ways to engage them that I have crafted due to necessity. 

This has been the story of my life generally though, not a lot of opportunity handed to me so I have to capitalize on what I do get. 

  • Intern in AM - Equities
Sep 15, 2021 - 5:45pm

99+ likes a day after making my account, after swiping through that I usually will get 3-4 matches a day and it dies out after a month or so. Tbh I feel good looking on dating apps esp with match quality but women don't  approach me or show interest irl so I think dating apps are a meme for the most part, all about taking good pictures and adopting your niche. I'm an ethnic in a heavy white area so that's a factor. 

Sep 15, 2021 - 5:49pm

I don't live in the US or the UK so things might be a bit different here. Here's a little timeline:

- For like 5 years I tried dating apps on and off and literally never got any matches (I find cute when guys complain about getting a lot of matches but no conversations, because for literally years I didn't even get to the first part);

- Then Facebook launches the Dating feature in 2019, I try my luck and for once get to have a few matches (like 10-15 in about 6 months). This time I also manage to finally get a date, but it goes nowhere;

- Then COVID hits and I stop using the app;

- Now, after I'm fully vaccinated, I got some good pictures and started using again. Been doing so for ~2 weeks. Currently on Tinder, FB and Inner Circle.

Things are better now (albeit VERY stressful; I feel just like when I was looking for internships and was daily assraped by the endless rejections). 8 matches on Tinder, 3 on Facebook and 2 on Inner Circle (where I also started 4 successful conversations without matches because I pay to be able to read messages). So far, no dates. And, as expected, most girls just won't reply, no matter how clever my message is. It's also sad how those companies profit on men's loneliness instead of focusing on pairing the right people. On Tinder, for instance, you get an insane advantage if you pay to be boosted or for Super Likes.

Dating as a man is hard. It's like the game is shamelessly rigged against me, way more than when job hunting with no prior experience.

  • Associate 1 in AM - Other
Sep 15, 2021 - 7:26pm

For me, someone with clinical anxiety and depression, meeting people physically is a nightmare I'm yet to get over. For years I've been hindered by personal issues that I'm carefully handling.

Online dating presents a good alternative, tentatively at least.

Sep 15, 2021 - 8:05pm

curiousgeorge79

Meet some girls in person… better girls & better odds if you have a good personality.

I agree. The problem is where I do that. I'm still figuring that out.

And good girls are way more picky than elite companies.

Yeah. I'm finding that the hard way. Doesn't make sense to me though. If you're an attractive girl, dating a random guy costs way less than it does to a company to hire a random candidate. But to each their own

Sep 16, 2021 - 12:58am

If you're not a tall, good-looking, white guy, these dating apps will be a waste for you. Despite what women might say, they are unbelievably shallow and racist on these apps - that's the truth of it. At the end of the day, they are basing their entire opinion of you on a couple pics, so the white guy with the chiseled jaw and with "6'5" in his bio is gonna grab her attention, despite working at whole foods as a cashier at 25 years old with no college degree or ambition/drive. There's no way to get your "winning personality" or "witty humor" or intelligence across without getting that initial right swipe.

So there are really only two types of guys on these dating apps - either they are getting 0-2 matches a week/month, or 100+ matches a day/week, very few men are in between. And tbh you are not gonna find very "high quality" women on these apps, especially if you are below mid 20s, all the girls are looking for 1) Validation, followers, or selling their only-fans, 2) Free food, or 3) Someone to look good on their instagram, or to provide them with a good photo opportunity aka a guy with a yacht. This has just been my personal experience, and I've seen similar with other 20-25 year old guys I've discussed this with. Feel free to disagree

Sep 17, 2021 - 3:26am

While I generally agree with this, I have met up with a good looking lawyer from tinder. I have to admit that she was the only one with a professional job on there, but still. Every once in a while you will find a girl in finance, law, medicine, etc
While women are very picky, there are biological reasons for it and, In all fairness, if a man sees an unattractive, overweight girl - their reaction would be the same.

I have mostly white friends in the US and EU, and I was quite shocked to see that all the girls who posted a black square on instagram a few months back were also the ones who were "grossed out" when another black guy messaged them on a dating app. Their reactions were way more racist than I could ever imagine. As if a man of color had no right to even message them on an app. They don't even get back to attractive white men.

  • Associate 1 in HF - Event
Sep 16, 2021 - 7:21am

If you have less than 5 matches a day, delete it, dating apps ain't for you.

You can only have good experience in these avenues if you have abundant choices from there, and to be honest, if you have just 1-4 matches a day, this app will make you feel like you're doing sales with inbox is convo with sales leads and leads ghost you so often that you will feel frustrated. 

You can increase the pipeline with better photo to sell yourself better. But the threshold for good dating experience from online apps would be 5 matches per day, if you can't reach that, drop it. Only top men from there will actually get girls 7/10 and above, the rest will suffer. 

Sep 16, 2021 - 9:33am

if you have just 1-4 matches a day, this app will make you feel like you're doing sales with inbox is convo with sales leads and leads ghost you so often that you will feel frustrated. 

But the threshold for good dating experience from online apps would be 5 matches per day, if you can't reach that, drop it. Only top men from there will actually get girls 7/10 and above, the rest will suffer. 

I use Hinge almost exclusively (a little bit of Bumble) and # of matches depends on how often I'm using it (i.e. how many likes I send and how many I return), but I agree with your sales funnel analogy.  It's matches>responses>conversations>number exchanges>scheduled dates>actual dates.  You just can't let it get to you - you'll always have attrition along the way, just shrug and move on to the next.  

Re: good dating experience, there's actually some good research (https://quillette.com/2019/03/12/attraction-inequality-and-the-dating-e…) that shows how the dating "economy" is wildly unequal.  The top few % of men get a huge majority of the likes.  It's a bit less unequal for women, but still highly stratified.  

One tip I would give - spend some $ on some of the premium features (names vary by platform, but it's usually "super likes" or something like that).  If you're dating in Manhattan and you're going on ~2 dates a week, you're probably spending $120+ per week (at a minimum) on dating.  Spending $20 every few weeks to get yourself better dates has a pretty high ROI IMO.  

  • 5
Sep 16, 2021 - 12:01pm

Paradox of choice is very real. A few years ago my roommate (average height, overweight, no game) and I (6'3, fit, charismatic) both were on apps. He would average maybe a match a week to my ~200. That said he ended up eventually marrying the SECOND girl he went on a date from it with, I probably went on 150 dates over a few years before finding one I liked enough to settle down with.

There is something to be said of having less options and being forced to make things work, over nexting a girl for say - chewing gum on a date

Sep 17, 2021 - 3:29pm

MonkeyNoise

Paradox of choice is very real. A few years ago my roommate (average height, overweight, no game) and I (6'3, fit, charismatic) both were on apps. He would average maybe a match a week to my ~200. That said he ended up eventually marrying the SECOND girl he went on a date from it with, I probably went on 150 dates over a few years before finding one I liked enough to settle down with.

Absolutely true - there is a very strong correlation among my friends between how much success with women they have and how soon they settle down (more success = settling down later).  

There is something to be said of having less options and being forced to make things work, over nexting a girl for say - chewing gum on a date

But what if she eats her peas one at a time? 

Sep 16, 2021 - 11:07am

Speaking for Tinder:

I've found that when I first sign up, I often get heaps of matches, and then it slows to the point where I'm only getting 1 or 2 each day. Then I'll delete the app, stay off for a few months, and when I re-sign up I suddenly start getting heaps of matches again only for the cycle to repeat. 

I think this is pretty normal for guys. Almost 80% of Tinder profiles are men, and it's surely safe to say that men on Tinder swipe far more than women. I think the algorithm will move your profile to the top of the stack when you first sign up so that you get reeled in, but then de-prioritize you after you have a few matches etc. Simply because of the sheer volume of active males versus active females, if you swipe on a girl she might have to swipe through hundreds of profiles before she sees yours. If she's just a casual swiper then the waitlist could be in the thousands. 

Anyway, I'd still argue it's a good way to meet new people and haven't had any bad experiences. 

Sep 16, 2021 - 11:49am

Reddit is full of pathetic 'men' with pudgy bodies, overly friendly, and not an ounce of testosterone in their bodies. Not to generalize, but go to the Bumble subreddit and look at a thread for profile reviews and youll understand why it's a match desert for them.

I am in a relationship now, but dating apps were a god send to me - especially as an introvert. On Hinge (Tinder is for lower class trash) I matched with ~90% of the women I would right swipe on, and was pretty selective myself (maybe swiped on 1 in 5 profiles). Would rack up 1,000+ matches in a few months pretty quickly while living in a relatively small city, and easily went on over 100+ dates over the years.

Dating apps are solvable but MOST guys have NO IDEA how to sell themselves or what women really want. I've thought about writing a book on the subject tbh because I've nailed down pretty well how to appeal to women as it didnt come naturally to me at all growing up. Happy to give advice on the subject

  • Associate 1 in AM - Other
Sep 16, 2021 - 12:00pm

Impressive. Can you tell us your body measurements and your looks on a scale of average or above? (solely because everyone keeps repeating that your physical appearance is the most important thing)

Sep 16, 2021 - 12:15pm

Impressive. Can you tell us your body measurements and your looks on a scale of average or above? (solely because everyone keeps repeating that your physical appearance is the most important thing)

This is going to sound annoying in context but I'm 6'3, 195 pounds, ~12% bodyfat (get it professionally measured once a year) and would probably give myself a 7.5 out of 10 in terms of looks (attractive enough to get hit on in public or have girls ask me out at the office semi regularly, but NOT a model).

That said, I've still seen massive improvements on the app based on how I present myself. In short, as others have said above, your pictures should show someone who is successful & interesting, maybe cocky, but NOT arrogant. Your bio should show you have wit but NOT a clown - theres a difference.

So for pics. Being arrogant would be showing off your abs in a selfie picture, or you sitting on top of a porsche. Some girls like this, but trust me MANY will say it's tacky. However, if you are fit / rich you need to show - but not tell - this. So instead of a shirtless gym pic do a shirtless pic of you playing beach volleyball, or surfing, or rock climbing, or hell even hiking. This gives you plausible deniability that you arent a tool, just a fit guy doing an activity that requires you to be shirtless.

For success SHOW it dont say it. Have pictures of you in exotic/international locations, or doing expensive hobbies like skiing or sailboating. Poor people dont do that, so again it displays your success without making you look insecure/arrogant.

Women also like adventure (or at least in their ideal state claim to do so). If you have a profile pic of you doing something truly unique (but not lame) it's fucking catnip, trust me. This doesn't need to be your hobby or anything, but have a picture of you kite surfing, dog sledding, ice climbing, whatever - just have it stand out and have it not be lame. They see this and they see you as a guy who can introduce them to a world of fun and excitement. 

Lastly need to prove you arent some weirdo creep. So a social picture of you with your friends (ideally other ones who look decent), wedding pics where you are dressed up are great for this but can be any number of things.

So in 4 pictures you have showed you are fit, affluent, fun/exciting, and personable. If you check all of those boxes and show it to women then you will get matches like crazy. If you dont check all those boxes then Id say work on yourself before entering the dating ring. Lose that extra body fat, pick up a new hobby, dont have friends? Get some in your area before trying to date. Boil this down to a science instead of some 'she will like me for me!' fairytale and it becomes easy brother

Sep 16, 2021 - 12:09pm

Also, what most people haven't touched on is making your profile desirable. Meaning that don't post braggart and douchey photos of yourself on things that don't support who you are. Post photos of yourself actually doing cool shit. Skiing, snowboarding, surfing, etc… I think you get the point. Display your lifestyle with photos that doesn't come off as if you're trying to impress anyone. Trust me it works.

Array
  • 1
Sep 16, 2021 - 12:40pm

Haha yea I call this 'show, dont tell'. It's not secret women want a fit, interesting, successful guy. You can convey this in images without being explicit about it that makes you look like a tool.

The balance falls between 'truly being yourself' and 'making a profile of the ideal state of who you are to get matches'. I'm not great at skiing and tbh it really isn't an important hobby in my life, but you damn well believe I had a skiing picture near the top. Similarly, when the bio ask 'things I enjoy' you can be sure I'm not listing 'Fantasy Football' either.

End of the day your profile is your dating resume. You want to get as much volume as possible, let actual dates be where you sort through the mess. I have no issue upselling myself for what women want just as I have no issue upselling myself to what employers want when listing the value I've driven for the enterprise. We are all BSers to some degree, better to at least be conscious of it

Sep 16, 2021 - 11:02pm

I have used dating apps for almost ten years and gone on a number of dates/dated people from dating apps. My all time high for tinder matches before I deleted it was north of 10,000 matches. To be honest, they are a great thing if you are an introvert like I am. I would start with Hinge for today, then maybe Bumble and Tinder. And also The League if you are in a major city. They are great because you get the superficial stuff like looks out of the way (you match because you both think you are attractive, shocker). From there it is can they have a conversation (even online), are they intelligent (work/school), intangibles like athleticism, etc. I have had some strange experiences (got catfished once), but overall I highly recommend for the younger people on this site, as it is a good way to find out what you like. People can make it awkward, but I grew up with the internet and never thought it weird to meet someone online. Hell, I hooked up with a runner up for a Miss State beauty pageant, best sex of my life. Matched with my current girlfriend a number of years ago, took it slow, and both realized we enjoyed each other and she was athletics and genius intelligence, but it took years of these apps to realize that is what I wanted long term. I am sure I am not the only one.

Few players recall big pots they have won, strange as it seems, but every player can remember with remarkable accuracy the outstanding tough beats of his career.
  • 2
Sep 17, 2021 - 8:59am

Coming here to say that WSO dating advice threads have been very helpful to sit through a boring training, thank you for the entertainment!

Array

Sep 17, 2021 - 12:18pm

I've come to the conclusion that apps suck. And it's not because of lack of matches. But matches usually just sit there and it's usually just boring texting. Eventually you run out of things to say. I also can't decide if I like a girl purely by looking at a couple pics and lame bios.

Sep 17, 2021 - 2:09pm

I've never used a dating app because I met my wife before they existed. What I will say, putting a MD next to your name is golden. My business partner got divorced and started online dating (met his second wife on one of the apps). He is an ER doc and despite not being tall got all the matches. He was going on 2 dates a day for a while there. 

  • 1
  • Analyst 1 in IB - Gen
Sep 19, 2021 - 5:34am

Anywhere. Even school title. In London if you put Oxbridge or LSE it also helps to a certain extent 

  • Analyst 1 in IB-M&A
Sep 17, 2021 - 5:33pm

Agree and disagree with some of what has been said. Allow me to tell you I've been on those apps for 5 months and had major success. My 2c, and please pay attention

Listen man, do write where you work. If you're still an associate just write "Investment management associate" or "Junior investment analyst." If your school is elite, also jot that down, although in London elite uni's aren't too unattainable.

The most crucial thing is that 1) you need to be fairly attractive; and 2) MAKE A GOOD PROFILE FFS. It's really unfortunate for many people, but the reality is that people are inherently unequal. Not everyone has the same wealth, wit, or looks, and thus some people do better than others. Unfortunate but true. Those Reddit guys are just.... you don't want to be among them, at all.

I'm 5"11' (also live in London). I attribute all success to having a good profile. My pictures are all from international trips [Washington (Snoqualmie falls), NY (top of 1WTC), Paris (Notre dame & Eiffel), Frankfurt (ECB), Milan (Duomo di Milano)]. Keep in mind I had very strict deadlines and quarantine rules to get all of this done, but the experiences were worthwhile and it's paying off dating wise. Girls get the vibe that you're the one who should be sought, they get curious to see the entire photo stock of those trips, and better yet, they get close to you hoping you'd take them there.

I'm 150lbs. I'd give my face a 7/10. Furthermore, I have a suspicious non English name (and if you're wondering yes I do better with girls from my ethnicity, which helps me avoid the millennial/gen z white girl condescension sometimes). But I have so many matches and hookups, if I'm free to swipe and give likes, it could be 1 or 2 matches per day. Pay for boosts and premium and whatever. But you have to show these girls that you are an adventurous guy, that you're an important person whom they should hold in a high esteem, unlike other guys on there (again, there's SO many average people on those apps). I only have one picture in a suit, in front of the ECB, as I was attending a sort of discreet funeral of a friend's acquaintance's grandmother. Guess what? Almost all girls loved that one specifically. It gave them the impression that I am unique and important. If you manage to pull that off, those girls will treat you well.

Good luck mate.

  • Analyst 1 in IB - Gen
Sep 18, 2021 - 6:45am

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