How to Network and Tips on Networking

So I hear a lot about networking on this site and how it is important, especially if you go to a non-target or a semi-target. How hard is networking and how should one go about networking? In an ideal world, I would want to work for a BB investment bank or at least an EB investment bank, however I fear that this may not be possible if I go to what is considered a non-target. Any helpful tips on how to network properly and your own experiences with networking would be greatly appreciated.

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Comments (256)

Mar 5, 2017 - 6:00am

"at least an EB" ... ok bro. 1, you should learn a bit more about the landscape so you don't say something with that level of naivete to a banker.

2, this "networking" you speak of is not "hard" unless you find social interactions difficult. Learn to write a nice, concise introductory email and send it to some analysts at banks you're interested in; try to get on the phone and ask them some genuine questions.

Mar 5, 2017 - 8:35am

Alright sorry. Should have phrased it like that. Was just stating the types of bank I am aiming to work at but nothing is ever ideal. And no, social interactions are not difficult for me so I guess I should be okay. Thanks for the tips though.

Mar 5, 2017 - 3:40pm

No problem. Following up on my previous comment, a non-target recruiting experience isn't optimal. To put things in perspective, I networked almost exclusively with alums from my school and found that they were the most helpful. Coming from a non-target, this may be a more limited option, so I would start making a spreadsheet of people you can cold-email and update it as they get back to you. Make sure to join clubs with current seniors who were successful in the process - you can leverage them, too.

Mar 5, 2017 - 3:41pm

Networking Do's and Don'ts (Originally Posted: 06/11/2017)

Hey guys I've got a meeting coming up with a head of sales in a couple days, potential to get some intern work out of it. Anyone got any suggestions of what I should and shouldn't do? I mean I have a good idea on how not to be an idiot, I just mean any advice would be greatly appreciated, with regards to questions etc.
Cheers

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Mar 5, 2017 - 3:44pm

Are you a college student? Networking for them basically means talking to the right people at info sessions/on-campus events, alumni, professional events, social clubs, etc.

Banking > VC > Tech PE; PM me if you would like any advice I'm happy to help
Mar 5, 2017 - 3:45pm

hm...have you tried cisco or linksys?

​* http://www.linkedin.com/in/numicareerconsulting
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Mar 5, 2017 - 3:47pm

Make sure you stay away from emails unless you've met the person. Either that or make sure that you have someone in contact with them (colleague etc.)ask if it is alright that you're given their contact information etc. And more importantly, continue to follow-up/check-in if that person seems receptive to it.

I am going into an analyst program right now with a MM bank, but I am still in contact with people at 3 other banks I interned and/or interviewed with. That's sort of the essence of networking. I keep them up to date on what I am doing, ask for advice etc.

If you do that, your personal network just keeps growing.

Mar 5, 2017 - 3:50pm

I personally think asking how to network is like asking how to pick up a chick- either you get it or you don't, and if you're asking on an internet forum... well it doesn't bode well for you.

There is no "secret sauce"; think about what you would want to see if you worked at a bank and you were faced with a horde of otherwise indistinguishable undergrads.

Mar 5, 2017 - 3:51pm

Networking is KEY (Originally Posted: 04/09/2013)

I cannot stress how important networking is. I am sure everyone knows this, but I will reiterate it once more. I had an interview for a SA in the last few weeks and it is only because I knew someone high up in the bank. I did not believe in networking years ago, but it is so right. While you are studying the technicals hard, make sure you are meeting people. I was told that cold emails can be annoying, so you actually have to try and meet people in a social setting of some sort and things will happen...you just watch.

Mar 5, 2017 - 3:53pm

probinganalyst:
cool story bro

BURRNNNN!
[quote=Dirk Dirkenson]Shut up already. Your mindless, reflexive responses to any critical thought on this are tedious. You're also probably a woman, given the name and "xoxo" signoff, so maybe the lack of judgment is to be expected.[/quote]
  • 1
Mar 5, 2017 - 3:55pm

I got my SA through cold emails

Because when you're in a room full of smart people, smart suddenly doesn't matter—interesting is what matters.
Mar 5, 2017 - 3:56pm

OP - I agree with you entirely.

However, please allow me to introduce the caveat that it may be better to not refer to it as "networking." I believe that such a term sanitizes and discursively mutes the essential genuine interaction -- interpersonal connection -- which characterizes the most effective instances of "networking." Rather, call it "meeting people," or "making friends," or even nothing at all. I believe that such an approach is key to one's "networking" efforts coming off as agreeable and genuine. Indeed, be genuine. Fixate not on what a "contact" can get you, so much as the holistic value of a new relationship.

"There are three ways to make a living in this business: be first, be smarter, or cheat."
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Mar 5, 2017 - 3:59pm

Sandhurst:
Fixate not on what a "contact" can get you, so much as the holistic value of a new relationship.

Build holistic relationships to learn about and enter the industry (not networking and cold emailing to break into banking). Once in the industry, provide businesses with holistic solutions to create long-term value (not figuring out ways to maximize fees) ... love me some buzz words.

Mar 5, 2017 - 3:57pm

this is so key...networking pays off, literally.

heres the proof for me at least:

SA recruitment (without really networking 'properly')= 0 ocr interviews...had to cold call and work unpaid over summer to get a boutique internship

FT recruitment (w/extensive networking march-august)= 16 IB interviews lined up (across LA, SF and NY- ALL IB) some BBs (BAML, Citi, Wells Fargo), few elite boutiques (lazard, guggenheim) and many solid MMs (Houlihan, Jefferies, Oppenheimer, Harris Williams, Stifel, Piper Jaffray, Imperial Capital, Sagent, Duff & Phelps, Montgomery & Co, Raymond James etc.). i ended up taking the offer i wanted and cancelling on the remaining like 13 interviews/superdays i had left because it was my top choice. it feels good to say no to a bank after getting rejected to many goddamn times. lol.

literally the only difference (keep in min my GPA was lower for FT recruitment than it was for SA recruitment even HAHA) between the 2 interview cycles was my networking.

i eventually got the offer i ended up taking because so many damn people at the office i had the superday already knew me, i was favored.

I don't throw darts at a board. I bet on sure things. Read Sun-tzu, The Art of War. Every battle is won before it is ever fought- GG
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Mar 5, 2017 - 4:01pm

anacott steal:
analystmonkey, congrats on your success, can you explain how you went about networking and meeting these people?

sure. use linkedin like its facebook. use that as a portal to find alumni, people that went to your high school, speak another similar language as you, like a sport/interest as you do, live in your city, live in your home city, come from a similar country if you are a 1st born generation here in the US...etc. the list goes on. i basically would do many different type of linkedin searches with odd key words until i found people that worked at a good IB that i would want to work at and have a similar commanility with me

from there, you just got to cold email/cold connect with them and try to get them on the phone. always keep track of who you spoke to in excel, the last time you spoke, what you spoke about etc etc.

then see if they can introduce you to anyone else in their group/office that would be in charge of recruitment and/or ask the original person out to coffee or lunch (your treat of course)

repeat this process x 300 and even at a 20% success rate, thats 60 people taht can push your resume if you make a good connection/conversation/lunch with that person come recruitment.

i think i must have tried to cold connect with nearly 600 people and like 200 of them said yes and of those 200 like 100 i ended up getting to speak to via email or phone and maybe like 20 in person

hope this helps. dont be lazy, get the ball rolling especially if you or other juniors dont have a SA position lined up yet, get something (even unpaid) at a no name local boutique and start grinding. dsnt matter where you start, matters where you'll end up.

I don't throw darts at a board. I bet on sure things. Read Sun-tzu, The Art of War. Every battle is won before it is ever fought- GG
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Mar 5, 2017 - 4:00pm

I LOVE networking. More so than the prospects of a SA offer, but I really enjoy talking to new people and hearing about why they work in finance, and if they like it. The relationships are pretty great too - I was speaking with an alumni last week who has a son in high school who is considering studying at my UG, and in 2 weeks I'm giving him a 1-1 campus tour instead of them having to go through the Universities paid program. If an offer happens to come out of that then great, but I don't expect one to.

I've actually started to catch some flak for how much time I spend researching alumni, reading company websites and sending emails from other guys who live in my fraternity house - even other finance brahs. I guess networking is a hard concept to wrap your head around if you're not actively doing it?

Mar 5, 2017 - 4:02pm

Best Networking Guide? (Originally Posted: 04/17/2015)

Hey,

Currently a sophomore, will be interning at a HF this summer, and interested in investment banking. What is the best networking guide for investment banking (willing to pay)? I realize this is an opinion question.

I've done some cold-emailing before but a more structured approach would probably be helpful. Want to get started soon in time for junior recruiting in the fall.

Mar 5, 2017 - 4:04pm

I'm having a lot of difficulty networking (Originally Posted: 05/10/2013)

It feels so tough and I am extremely frustrated. Everyone keeps saying it like its so easy. I have sent out a number of warm emails (someone knows the person and tells me to email them) and I get no reply. Simple email saying "I am a friend/old colleague of so and so and they gave me your contact info. yada yada...." no response. Sometimes I speak to my friend and they CC me with the other person on the email saying "This is my good buddy Ninja-Analyst, could you please give him advice....." Then I am email the guy and he doesn't respond. What am I suppose to do? Complain to my friend? Email the guy again in a week?

I go to networking events and have spoken to some more senior people, get their business card. Email them 1-3 days later to try and get them to meet for coffee and no response.

My most recent shitty experience was where I was passed around from a friend to someone at another company. The guy at the company passed me on to his colleague. We sent like 5 emails back and forth trying to setup a time (with me being completely agreeable but he kept having to check his schedule), then the guy shows up 15 minutes late and says he only has 2 minutes because he has a meeting. I wasted most of my morning trying to read up on his company and get down to the meeting spot.

Its really annoying me. I am not an awkward social misfit. I do not think I am being too aggressive with my emails. I have tried emailing them my resume in the intro and not emailed my resume. I try asking for advice and tell them I would be extremely grateful.

What should my response rate be? I thought with having met the person at a conference or having someone tell me I could email them it would be pretty high. I must be doing something wrong but am unable to see it.

Mar 5, 2017 - 4:07pm

Don't worry; those of us who've been through this know exactly how it feels.

Keep pushing and try focusing on more specific connections (e.g. alumni, etc.). I've read that quite a few members here have sent over 1,000+ emails/calls.

Mar 5, 2017 - 4:09pm

I didn't expect too much from cold emails/calls. In my opinion, a better strategy is to do your best to utilize alumni connections and family and friend connections. A random banker is more likely to blow you off then a friend of the family.

Mar 5, 2017 - 4:10pm

"I do not think I am being too aggressive with my emails. "
ABC = always be closing, that means get aggressive. End of.

If they finally crack down, don't be too pushy during the interview, that's a no. But with emails - most definitely, and call as well. Especially if it's via an introduction or a friend, I would be more reserved about harassing complete strangers...

Mar 5, 2017 - 4:11pm

Disjoint:
ABC = always be closing, that means get aggressive.

Straight dope. Echoing Disjoint, "getting aggressive" doesn't mean being pushy per-se. It means pounding pavement, following up, and generally having your shit together (and coming across as such). Be as genuine as possible, certainly stay polite, and Always Be Closing.

Motivation:

(

)

"There are three ways to make a living in this business: be first, be smarter, or cheat."
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Mar 5, 2017 - 4:12pm

Don't give up...
It doesn't have to be warm emails...
Try to connect through LinkedIn (don't send a generic message, say what you need)

I recently applied for a job at a big investment management company (5000+ employees), I found the name of the head of the group on LinkedIn. I sent him a short email saying that I applied and I want an interview (in a nice and not too aggressive way)... I have an interview next week...

Keep your messages short... if you see coffee/meeting as the first contact doesn't work, try to set up a phone call...

And I think being honest is the most important thing...

Also, if this guy is a trader or something, don't email him during market hours... I think best times to email are Tuesday/Wednesday/Thursday around 430pm... Fridays is also okay because it's a slow day...

Mar 5, 2017 - 4:14pm

WallStreetStandard:

Don't give up...
It doesn't have to be warm emails...
Try to connect through LinkedIn (don't send a generic message, say what you need)

I recently applied for a job at a big investment management company (5000+ employees), I found the name of the head of the group on LinkedIn. I sent him a short email saying that I applied and I want an interview (in a nice and not too aggressive way)... I have an interview next week...

Can you pm me how you worded this? It seems rude, but idk how to word it nicely

Mar 5, 2017 - 4:15pm

please explain to me NETWORKING (Originally Posted: 11/16/2007)

This is for the summer. I go to a semi-target but it's not recruited by all the BBs. Some banks come on campus and actually will hold 1st rounds on campus, those are good.

There are some lower end BBs like Credit Suisse and UBS who have alums come on campus to give a presentation but actually won't hold first rounds on campus. I'm suppose to submit my resume to them and they'll forward it to HR or relevant people.

  1. For the above two scenarios, how should I network? They've already gave presentations. I'm sure they dont want dumb emails asking questions like "how did you get into banking". Is there any need to email the top two scenarios to make small chat? What can I possibly say to them other than "What Do I gotta do to get a job"?

  2. The ones I'm most interested in finding out are those firms that don't come on campus (either for presentation or interview). I'm told that I need to reach out to alums there and get them to forward my resume. But how do I network with them? Should I just say straight out "can you forward my resume?" or should I try to ask them a few dumb annoying questions like "how did you get into banking?" "what were your initial ideas about banking while in school?" and make no mention of my resume? I really don't know how to email these guys. I get the feeling that they can smell through the bullshit about my interest in their life.

  3. How much emailing is too much? Will it be counterproductive to email 50 alums in the same firm with the hope that 1 out of 50 will actually help you and forward your resume? Can contacting multiple alums at the same firm potentially back fire? What's the rule here.

  4. How should I address the alums? Some just graduated a few years back, others graduated in the 80s. By first name (Hey Dick) or "Dear Mr. Smith"?

  5. Is it too early to email them right now about the summer or should I wait till mid-end of December?

Thanks my fellow monkeys!

Mar 5, 2017 - 4:16pm

When you approach alumni, you have to be direct and indirect at the same time. As in most situations, the alum will know what you want (to get a job) but will expect to hear an indirect request (ask to speak to them on phone, via email, etc.) rather than a direct "can you please help me by x, y, z".

During the email communication, test your ability to sell yourself, ask semi-direct questions, and HOPE for a response. Once you establish the relationship (by him acknowledging your email and bothering to respond), you can can build a foundation which will ultimately result in him agreeing to pass your resume along.

Don't think alumni are like the hoes in amsterdam, where you just go up to the window, negotiate a price and go in. Things work a little bit different in the corporate world.

Good luck.

Mar 5, 2017 - 4:20pm

(1) I almost always use first name in emails, especially if you have struck up a conversation with them during the recruiting receptions.

(2) Try to get informationals (face to face or phone) with alums. It's one way to stand out if you are from a semi or non target.

(3) Google informational interviews and you will find a list of sample questions. Don't ask questions in rapdi fire mode, but engage in conversation.

(4) You can email multiple alums (4 or 5) but not 50. The key to networking, I think is, if you have 2-3 people in the firm who will speak up for you, it's good enough. Once you achieve that, stop - because you may end up meeting one or two jerks after that whom you can't connect with, and if he say bad things about you, it'll hurt you.

Mar 5, 2017 - 4:22pm

You don't also have to ask dumb, pointless questions like "why banking?" or "why company XYZ?" Take some time to write out some thoughtful questions. If you met and talked with a guy at the presentations then bring something up that you talked about. Ask about challenges they face, suggestions they have for doing the best in interviews you can, etc. And if they went to your school, ask specific questions that relate your similar college experiences to their career. Ask questions, just don't ask the Vault Guide canned ones.

Mar 5, 2017 - 4:25pm

No B.S. Networking (Originally Posted: 01/31/2013)

Okay, how do I network with professionals to the point where they will introduce to potential employers or employ me or give me an internship etc.

Yeah, Yeah, I went and met people that are now in IBD that went to my schoool; and it went like this:

1- I email, introduce myself, ask for a 10 minute coffee, in relation to give me advice about the industry

2- they say yes

3- I show up, he tells me: oh you gotta keep applying, never give up, etc.

4- I dont think this helped me in any way?

What should I do? please help me understand how this works?

Mar 5, 2017 - 4:26pm

Ask if he knows of any positions through his network. And if he does, could he introduce you to the person he knows. if he says he doesn't, you say okay well I am interested in blah blah, please keep me in the loop and I will keep you updated on my progress.

And then keep them updated! Tell them when you have an interview and with who, tell them if you apply to something at a firm. Maybe they might know someone they forgot about and can send a note on your behalf. Create a relationship with them, don't try to bullshit them asking for advice when in reality you want them to hand you a job. Be upfront and explain you are looking for positions in so and so and have so and so experience and would like to discuss possible opportunities with them and how to best position yourself.

Frank Sinatra - "Alcohol may be man's worst enemy, but the bible says love your enemy."
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Mar 5, 2017 - 4:30pm

yeahright:
Ask if he knows of any positions through his network. And if he does, could he introduce you to the person he knows. if he says he doesn't, you say okay well I am interested in blah blah, please keep me in the loop and I will keep you updated on my progress.

And then keep them updated! Tell them when you have an interview and with who, tell them if you apply to something at a firm. Maybe they might know someone they forgot about and can send a note on your behalf. Create a relationship with them, don't try to bullshit them asking for advice when in reality you want them to hand you a job. Be upfront and explain you are looking for positions in so and so and have so and so experience and would like to discuss possible opportunities with them and how to best position yourself.

Thanks for the comment!
When do I ask for the position? Do i do all you told me via email?
Or do i ask to meet for advice and then ask for position during coffee?

Thank you !

Mar 5, 2017 - 4:28pm

Advice is good, but the main reason you meet with them to try and get them to ask you for your resume. Sell yourself well (by showing you are genuinely interested in their industry) and after they see that, most of the time they will ask. If not, depending on how well the conversation went, ask in your thank you email if they could critique your resume so that they actually read through it in detail and get a better understanding of who you are/where you stand. Also, ask them if they know anyone else you can speak to in order to get their advice and input as well.

Array
  • 1
Mar 5, 2017 - 4:33pm

rufiolove:
Get them to invest in your outcome emotionally... People are more willing to help if they are invested. They have already invested time by agreeing to meet with you, so just build off of that base.

This.
Mar 5, 2017 - 4:34pm

Here is my two cents on networking, some may agree- some may disagree. "Networking" means knowing people. Now, somewhere along the line people started construing networking as = calling someone for a phone call and then checking in on them every month. Think about your friends, how many of them do you call for an informational interview and only contact monthly with some bullshit career/ market updates? I'd imagine not many unless you have some very bizzare friendships.

The reason I came to this conclusion, is because all the kids I partied with and had a great time with in UG would be AMAZING resources for me getting a job. Only problem is, having went to a non-target, they all pretty much reside in either Big 4 or BB support roles. But my point is- THAT'S a network. Not 100 people you maintain in some fucking spreadsheet who you've done nothing but had "informational interviews" with. That's literally the ONLY reason I'd consider an MBA (and only a top one at that). Because developing TRUE friendships with people who go on to do big things/ hold good positions, that's a network imo.

I learned this after every "networking" effort I put out there went EXACTLY the same way you described in the 4 steps in the OP. "Well, send me your resume and I'll let you know if anything comes up". Like don't bullshit me bro, I'm never going to hear back from you- let's be real. Networking is TRULY knowing people in positions you'd want, not a 30 min phone call and a resume sent in an e-mail. They have about as much of a vested interest in you as the other 30 lemmings they took phone calls from that month.

Mar 5, 2017 - 4:36pm

FrankD'anconia:
Here is my two cents on networking, some may agree- some may disagree. "Networking" means knowing people. Now, somewhere along the line people started construing networking as = calling someone for a phone call and then checking in on them every month. Think about your friends, how many of them do you call for an informational interview and only contact monthly with some bullshit career/ market updates? I'd imagine not many unless you have some very bizzare friendships.

The reason I came to this conclusion, is because all the kids I partied with and had a great time with in UG would be AMAZING resources for me getting a job. Only problem is, having went to a non-target, they all pretty much reside in either Big 4 or BB support roles. But my point is- THAT'S a network. Not 100 people you maintain in some fucking spreadsheet who you've done nothing but had "informational interviews" with. That's literally the ONLY reason I'd consider an MBA (and only a top one at that). Because developing TRUE friendships with people who go on to do big things/ hold good positions, that's a network imo.

I learned this after every "networking" effort I put out there went EXACTLY the same way you described in the 4 steps in the OP. "Well, send me your resume and I'll let you know if anything comes up". Like don't bullshit me bro, I'm never going to hear back from you- let's be real. Networking is TRULY knowing people in positions you'd want, not a 30 min phone call and a resume sent in an e-mail. They have about as much of a vested interest in you as the other 30 lemmings they took phone calls from that month.


I agree with you 100%. The problem is that who has a network of people they are friends with who are in a position to hire when they are under 25? Not many.

B-school networks aren't very helpful in this regard because all of the people you are friends with are your peers...they're your competition, not someone who can hire you. Maybe they can put in a good word for you for an opening at your firm, but usually they aren't hiring you unless you have fallen way behind your peers in your career progression (which would invite new issues).

So, where does that leave college students looking for a job? They need to make connections and ask people for a job. We can call it networking or cold calling, but either way, it has to be done. I agree that it's not really networking though.

Mar 5, 2017 - 4:35pm

ahpatsum:
What should I do? please help me understand how this works?

Get them fucking drunk. This is like dating. Do what works.
Get busy living
Mar 5, 2017 - 4:39pm

Networking Strategy Improvement Help (Originally Posted: 05/03/2014)

I've tried a few networking strategies over the past year with no luck and wanted some help on how to improve. Anyone especially in the UK/ Europe would be great.

Strategy 1. I'm interested in XYZ (something specific about their background) and wanted to chat - can we arrange a call?
Outcome: Typically no one replies. If they do reply and are available for a call they immediately jump to asking for my CV and progress with my application at that specific bank. When you say the truth (rejection/haven't heard anything) they don't seem interested anymore/blow you off.

Strategy 2. I came across XYZ job on your job board, can I speak to you about how I can contribute to this role? I feel I'm well suited to the role because (1-2 specific reasons).
Outcome: better hit rate but again it goes to directly referring me to HR rather then a telephone conversation/meet up. More often than not they say to apply online and HR will screen my credentials.

Strategy 3. Looking for advice on next steps - can we arrange a call?
Outcome: the people who do reply (typically analysts) prefer to keep it to email help only. Most of the time they reply once with something very generic (eg apply online again) then vanish even if you follow up.

Strategy 4. Focusing on alumni only and asking for referrals mentioning I went to the same target school.
Outcome: the few who do reply are happy to talk but go on and on about the competition/how hard it is to break in/how they failed to break into IBD directly and therefore you will fail too/say referrals don't help (and they wont refer someone they spoke to for 30 mins) unless your dad is CEO of the company but then say they will 'ask around' to see if anyone's recruiting. They then never reply or say apply online. In terms of negativity, I have found associates are the worst, analysts are clueless, VPs are helpful and MDs are unreachable haha.

The alumni who have left the industry tend to take a 'mentor' role and are the most willing to ask around (and they do) for feedback/help and put you in touch with people they know. These people are very hard to come by though.

Strategy 5. Contacting non-alumni.
Outcome: much better success rate but they tell me to contact alumni or 'build my network' (isn't that what I'm trying to do?) to get referrals.

Has anyone got some tips on what to try next or how to improve one of the above strategies?

Edit: if you tried one of the strategies above, which one worked best for you?

Mar 5, 2017 - 4:41pm

Quaneaser:

Couple questions for you:

I assume this is for FT positions? What do you do now? Do you have any IB experience at all? Are there any glaring weaknesses on your resume (low GPA, very non-target, etc?)

FT for some but mostly off-cycle internships (or summer if they allow it). Or anything on offer e.g. work experience.
Currently unemployed. Yes - an IBD/M&A no-name internship but its a bit old.
Went to a target, 2:1 degree obtained in a quantitative discipline.
Main weakness is a lack of any work experience since Summer 2013 which is what I am trying to overcome.

Mar 5, 2017 - 4:42pm

My advice to you would be to get any finance related job right now. With a target degree and at least some finance experience you should be fairly attractive corporate finance jobs, wealth management, etc. When looking for FT opportunities it is infinitely times easier to get a job when you have a job.

I think that accounts for a lot of your struggles. People without jobs/without return offers will have a very tough time networking because fair or not those are large red flags. If you contact people while having a job then people will likely be much more responsive and willing to listen since it's easier to refer a guy who is employed (read: employable) then one who isn't.

I realize it is not easy at all to even find the corp fin/PWM jobs, but if you want an honest answer to why your networking efforts aren't currently working, I believe it is what I stated in paragraph two. Feel free to message me your resume if you want also.

Mar 5, 2017 - 4:43pm

Quaneaser:

My advice to you would be to get any finance related job right now. With a target degree and at least some finance experience you should be fairly attractive corporate finance jobs, wealth management, etc. When looking for FT opportunities it is infinitely times easier to get a job when you have a job.

I think that accounts for a lot of your struggles. People without jobs/without return offers will have a very tough time networking because fair or not those are large red flags. If you contact people while having a job then people will likely be much more responsive and willing to listen since it's easier to refer a guy who is employed (read: employable) then one who isn't.

I realize it is not easy at all to even find the corp fin/PWM jobs, but if you want an honest answer to why your networking efforts aren't currently working, I believe it is what I stated in paragraph two. Feel free to message me your resume if you want also.

Sent you a message with my CV link.
Appreciate it.

Mar 5, 2017 - 4:44pm

I tried most of the above, got better response rate though. Have you ever thought about utilizing Linkedin specifically the Inmail tool. it's one way to reach MDs worked for me. Also try cold calling check out M&A website for cold calling strategies. my advice to you is to ask first for an informational interview get to know some people and learn about their background, DON'T ask for a job. Best luck !!!

Mar 5, 2017 - 4:45pm

Agreed with other users to get any finance related job as soon as possible. This will help to boost your confidence when reaching out to someone because in the back of your mind you already have a fall back plan. Secondly, it helps with "your story" part while networking with others, since you can clearly state why you want to transition to banking.

In terns of the networking strategy I always try to find the common ground. The best way is to approach alumni who did similar things in university (part of the same student organization, sports team, case competition, etc). "Hey I am an alum from XYZ. I was wondering if you have just a couple minutes over the next two weeks for a phone call to discuss your transition from non-target to BB in NYC/London/HK"

Mar 5, 2017 - 4:46pm

I tried asking for informational interviews (see strategy 1). The problem is (at least in the UK) they jump directly to 'send me your CV and we go from there' (even if I specifically keep it to learning more about their background and nothing job related). Most never reply even to Inmails (infact I've never got a response from an Inmail) or vanish after seeing my CV (but I sent it to many people to check and everyone says its ok). They sometimes reply months later asking if they can still help, I reply requesting the call, and then they vanish again.

The few who reply/I catch on a call ask for my progress with the banking apps in general (this was even when I was studying) or ask how they can help. If I ask about their background at this point they know I'm just BSing and calling about my career (tried this many times). If I go straight to the point several say they do not refer/will not refer anyone they spoke to for 30 mins over the phone etc as its a fair playing field online and its just luck keep trying. If I BS first and then slowly tread into what I'm doing now they say they will check for me if any team is interested and then vanish (no follow up calls either).

The contacts I seem to have the most luck with are people who I am completely unrelated too for some reason (perhaps they find me interesting?) eg I didn't go to Oxbridge but Oxbridge people help me the most.

Alumni are honestly the worst and really demotivating/negative/degrade you over the phone (with a few exceptions of course). Offering a coffee meeting is also a nightmare - they are always busy so there barely is anytime to meet. A few have offered - when I try to organise a time - they vanish again.

The same thing happened to when studying so I'm not sure it's the lack of a job. I am really trying to get any job at the moment but am struggling - hence the extensive efforts to network.

Mar 5, 2017 - 4:47pm

Try to find what has been working so far. You seems to have too many things on your mind at the same time (easily indicated by long thread posts). If meeting Oxbridge alum in person works best focus on that.

Don't focus your networking efforts on going straight for the kill "I want a job". Try to find out the steps they took to break into the industry, you need to have the convo going with them on regular basis/try to become friends with them. Most people think of networking as a one time thing, while it is actually a long process. Some people have been networking for years in order to get to where they wanted to end up at.

If you are really struggling buy WSO and BIWS networking guides, read up on success stories, try something called rejection therapy (like this guy http://www.fearbuster.com/100-days-of-rejection-therapy/)

Mar 5, 2017 - 4:48pm

I have the WSO networking guide and started my networking only after reading that.

My point was overtime I've tried the above strategies but none 'work' as such. I'm hitting dead ends with each one (some more than others) and therefore wanted help on how to improve it (and which one to continue with if any).

The only comments I have received (from the people who I do call/meet up with) say they applied online and got the offer. No special advice other the keep applying (and then 10-15 mins on how the industry has changed, its tough, you have to be lucky and more generic unhelpful advice).

I'm unsure how to change this/what I am doing wrong for the networking to not really go anywhere.

By the way - I know some people for years (prior to them even going into banking). I've been unable to break in so far they either ignore me completely (they feel they are above me - esp alumni) or type sympathy emails (with the same generic advice) but don't actually 'do' anything unless I specifically request it. Even then I'm not interviewed.

Getting quite confused as at least one of the methods above seems to have worked for everyone else on the forum. Not sure what's different for me.

Mar 5, 2017 - 4:49pm

Out of curiosity, has anyone in the UK/Europe actually tried networking and landed something through that? I feel that networking may be more applicable to the USA given the feedback I'm getting from the people I am speaking to in the UK/Europe. I hope I'm wrong though.

Mar 5, 2017 - 4:52pm

People I contact seem to jump straight to let me see your CV/you have to apply online, are unwilling to refer (unless you know them personally and even then its rare) and don't like to talk about their job much as coming from a target you 'should know' what they do/about the industry. I'm also constantly told if I'm not getting through via online apps there's nothing anyone can do unless your Rothschilds son or something.
Any ideas on how to get around this?

Mar 5, 2017 - 4:55pm

networking tactics (Originally Posted: 02/14/2008)

when meeting with people for informational interviews what do you ask and how aggressive are you in trying to get a job? from what i understand the point is to meet with people, build a good relationship and try to leverage that to a foot in the door with someone else. how can i do that effectively given the fact that I am looking for a full time offer and not just information?

Mar 5, 2017 - 4:57pm

best way to network? (Originally Posted: 07/13/2010)

Hey guys, i have some friends at many different banks such as Citi, boa, cs, wells, deutsche and UBS. but i am not sure how exactly to network with them because i rarely see them or talk to them since they are always working and busy.

what is the best way to talk to a current ibanker? should i be direct and say i want a job or go the more indirect route and ask for advice into breaking into their bank?

also I know 2 males and 1 female at boa, would it be easier networking with girls than guys?

thx everyone

Mar 5, 2017 - 4:58pm

LOL

Dude, they are your friends. Go network with people you don't know.

Mar 5, 2017 - 5:00pm

1) they are your friends. If you need something you call. If you are in town grab a beer, real simple. If they are your friends they will gladly pass your resume.

2) Networking is about making contacts or friends. Find people who went to the same school as you and try and get a hold of them. Try and network with people in the areas you are interested in.

Networking is about increasing your circle.

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Mar 5, 2017 - 5:01pm

Are you kidding man? If they really are your friends, call them and at least ask for advice on how they would recommend getting into their firm. I cant really see this as being a serious question. Banking and finance in general are relationship driven businesses, if you cannot call your friends up to inquire about a simple job, how do you expect to succeed?

Mar 5, 2017 - 5:03pm

At the very least, they will pass your resume. Call them - so many different options. Beer, lunch, meeting - just be yourself and be on-point and concise with what you want to talk about.

Don't waste their time, and they won't waste yours.

Mar 5, 2017 - 5:06pm

Best Place to Network (Originally Posted: 12/02/2010)

Guys,

I swear I've discovered the gold mine of networking. After countless hours of air travel, I've determined that there is no better place to network than the first class cabin of a plane or the airline lounges at the airport. A few weeks ago I sat next to a CEO who said he makes $5M+/year and was college friends with Steve Cohen and numerous buddies at SAC. Guy spent 3 hours talking to me about lean manufacturing and business judgment. Yesterday I sat next to another PE professional who was on his way to a management presentation. Now I'm at Continental's lounge and the guy sitting next to me is dropping the words "Carlyle" and "M&A" like they're going out of style.

CompBanker

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Mar 5, 2017 - 5:07pm

That probably means he's a college sophomore and an avid user of WSO

I do agree that airport lounges are money places to network though

If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford
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Mar 5, 2017 - 5:13pm
CompBanker:
Now I'm at Continental's lounge and the guy sitting next to me is dropping the words "Carlyle" and "M&A" like they're going out of style.
happypantsmcgee:
That probably means he's a college sophomore and an avid user of WSO

LOL! Classic! That deserves a silver banana.

Nouveau Richie:
I agree, major shit goes down in first class.

One time, my friend flew first class from Paris to Los Angeles and the flight was filled with famous/important people: Leonardo Dicaprio, the chick from "Juno," the girly-man from "(500) Days of Summer," some heir to a family fortune, the owner of the airlines, and a couple other really well-dressed people. Anyway, my friend said they mindfucked the rich heir guy a bit and somehow convinced him to divest the divisions of his dad's company.

Crazy, I know. Anyway, there's way more to the story, it's a bit confusing, it would probably take me like... exactly 148 minutes to tell you what really happened.

As does this!

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Mar 5, 2017 - 5:08pm

Nah, the guy was legit. He gave me a business card, a book to read (that he happened to be carrying around), and told me to mail it back to him when I was done.

CompBanker

Best Response
Mar 5, 2017 - 5:19pm

I agree, major shit goes down in first class.

One time, my friend flew first class from Paris to Los Angeles and the flight was filled with famous/important people: Leonardo Dicaprio, the chick from "Juno," the girly-man from "(500) Days of Summer," some heir to a family fortune, the owner of the airline, and a couple other really well-dressed people. Anyway, my friend said they mindfucked the rich heir guy a bit and somehow convinced him to divest the divisions of his dad's company.

Crazy, I know. Anyway, there's way more to the story, it's a bit confusing, it would probably take me like... exactly 148 minutes to tell you what really happened.

“Millionaires don't use astrology, billionaires do”
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Mar 5, 2017 - 5:09pm

I made a post about this a while back. If you hang around enough you will find tons of PE guys in airports all over the place...as far as celebrities...listen to this shit show:

I flew from Sao Paulo to Miami about a year ago in an empty Boeing 767 with Macy Gray and her girlfriend.

They were fighting, chasing each other up and down the isles, making up, kissing, screaming, going to the bathroom every 15 minutes coming back hyperactive and smiling like clowns. Good times.

Mar 5, 2017 - 5:10pm

Did she try to say good bye and she choked or tried to walk away but she stumbled? Just curious

If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford
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Mar 5, 2017 - 5:12pm

lmfao happy, awesome.

Generally speaking a lot of older guys (from what I've seen) enjoy the upscale places where it's not super loud and they can talk and have a good time. Bars and clubs are great to go out and get sloshed at, but going to a nice Jazz bar, the opera (the Met, specifically, in NYC), Broadway shows, etc, you'll probably have a decent opportunity to meet people. Bars/Lounges are generally the best places because they might only be out by themselves or having a drink with a couple friends. The others are kind of harder just to walk up to somebody and be like, "hey, blah blah blah".

"You stop being an asshole when it sucks to be you." -IlliniProgrammer "Your grammar made me wish I'd been aborted." -happypantsmcgee
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Mar 5, 2017 - 5:14pm

I agree, airports and planes are rife with networking opportunities. My whackjob to legit ratio has been a bit skewed to the former though.

People like Coldplay and voted for the Nazis, you can't trust people Jeremy
Mar 5, 2017 - 5:16pm
GoodBread:
I mostly run into rappers on the plane for some reason. Not quite the opportunity I'm looking for.

..you dont wanna learn how to dougie?

Mar 5, 2017 - 5:20pm

Networking noob here.. need practical advice. (Originally Posted: 04/14/2011)

I have a masters in finance and have been working for over a year at a small firm on the west coast. I'm looking for better opportunities and I know networking is essential to uncovering them but I'm lost as to where to begin. Btw, I got this first job through responding to literally 1000+ ads on Monster and my university's job board for many months in 2009.

I know that it is who you know, not what you know , that really counts. Unfortunately the vast majority of people and friends in my network, including former classmates, are unemployed or underemployed despite many of them having a masters or PhD.

I really need some practical and basic advice on how to expand my network. I've tried LinkedIn and even cold calling some alumni at my target firms to no avail. By practical advice, I mean exactly what should I do next week? Next month? What organizations to join? What networking events to go to (in southern California)? If these questions seem to basic, then where do I do further research to find such events?

Mar 5, 2017 - 5:24pm

Networking - Haven't been networking well (Originally Posted: 05/03/2011)

Is it possible to get MBB from a target if you dont network and dont have a 3.8+ gpa?
I realized I havent been networking well and I'm applying in a couple months and am wondering if thats gonna ruin my chances

Mar 5, 2017 - 5:26pm

if your username is any indication of the fact that you attend Duke, I think you'll be set provided you do have a decent GPA and experience. But networking can never hurt only help your chances.

its one way or the other: hate me or admire.
Mar 5, 2017 - 5:28pm

Networking best practices question (Originally Posted: 05/08/2011)

Ok so this could be a dumb question but I want to make sure I'm maximizing my efforts in my job search. Ive been on linkedin researching ppl at the various firms I want to apply to and want to know if it's best to msg them through linked in or should I try to locate their actual email addresses? I've managed to find the email formats for many firms, so I could just apply that format to a given name but didn't know if that was appropriate to do. Also any other advice on cold emailing/calling ppl is helpful too. Thanks

Mar 5, 2017 - 5:29pm

I generally cold "link" them on linkedin and send them an email by using their name and company email format. Granted these are mostly alumni so they have been pretty receptive.

Mar 5, 2017 - 5:30pm

What to network about (Originally Posted: 06/27/2011)

I'm planning to apply to this open analyst job at a boutique IB. I've managed to find one alum at the company, but I have no idea what he does. I think he's 26/27, so if he's in IBD, I would guess he's an associate at the very least.

I know people push and push (and push and push ...) the value of networking here on WSO, and I'm guessing I should network with this guy - but what should I want to get out of networking with him? Information about the company/culture? Insider info on acing the interviews? "Subtly" ask him to push my application forward?

FYI, I am very green at this networking business/suck at it.

TIA!

P.S. I kind of lied about there only being 1 alum at this place ... There's actually another, older guy, but he's in legal, so I don't think he'd be of much help? Am I wrong?

Mar 5, 2017 - 5:31pm

Do a forum search for networking and check out the FAQ section. There's a lot about how to network, you just have to sift through some of the stuff. Good practice for when you get into IB haha

"You stop being an asshole when it sucks to be you." -IlliniProgrammer "Your grammar made me wish I'd been aborted." -happypantsmcgee
Mar 5, 2017 - 5:32pm

Invite him out for drinks and make him your friend.....

Get busy living
Mar 5, 2017 - 5:34pm

Where to look for summer networking? (Originally Posted: 08/06/2011)

I am a rising Junior looking to pursue a trading internship next summer and I know networking is a big part of getting the internship. I have been trying to establish some contacts but my alumni database isn't very up to date and the alumni that I have tried to email haven't responded. Where else should I look to network for trading?

Mar 5, 2017 - 5:40pm
IBankAllDay:
I've tried linkedin, but I don't want to pay for an account upgrade to be able to send messages to people. Is there a guide anywhere for S&T networking? Something similar to the mergers and inquisitions guide for IB would be great.

LinkedIn has actually been an incredible resource to me thus far. Yes, it's true that you need to upgrade your account in order to directly send messages to random people, but there are ways around that. I've tried to avoid sending messages directly through LinkedIn because I doubt they would get read as frequently, as it's more common for people to check their emails regularly than check LinkedIn... LinkedIn is great because you can filter your results down to your school and job function and all of that.

Usually what I do after I find a person of interest on LinkedIn is look up the email structure of the particular firm the person works at (there are tons of threads on WSO about that) -- super helpful. Just tell the person that you saw their profile on LinkedIn and are interested in connecting with them. (Say you're seeking their advice.)

Anyway, if you want to send a message directly through LinkedIn without a premium account, all you have to do is join the same Group they're in on LinkedIn. You can see people's groups under their profiles typically. You're allowed to join up to 50 groups, so go all out. After that, search for the person again under the Group, and then you'll be able to directly send them a message.

Good luck.

Mar 5, 2017 - 5:37pm

Any family friends that are in the business? Are you doing anything within finance this summer? Those are two good ways to network as well.

Mar 5, 2017 - 5:39pm

I know one person in S&T who is the son of someone my dad works with. I talked to him about his internship last spring but I dont think he is close enough to pull any strings or refer me for an internship. I was supposed to have a BB PWM internship this summer but the company messed up the paperwork and delayed it too long and now its not happening (but they still told me to put it on my resume) so that's out. KeepYourDistance, that sounds like a good start but I dont seem to be getting any replies at all from my alumni database. I think the email addresses are outdated.

Mar 5, 2017 - 5:41pm

Demystifying Networking (Originally Posted: 09/04/2012)

I have been cold calling/emailing a lot of people (both who are from my university and people who are not) for a while now.

What I have found is that people who went to my (target) university are much less willing to help me, in general. A lot of people who went to my uni completed a postgraduate course and therefore there is no 'link' between you and them (I'm an undergraduate).

Several people, though, respond to my emails and say the following:

  • You go to a target school so you will be fine
  • You have a solid resume so you will be fine
  • I am not in a position to help you/my firm is cutting jobs etc (even though I never directly ask about employment related things during networking - they just assume this)
  • We can talk via phone but I'm busy this week (and then they are busy next week, and then the following week, and then the following week haha). Some say yes we can meet for coffee but it never happens because something comes up. I do follow up but they are always busy. Sometimes they agree to help, then when I follow up, I am blanked. After a few follow up emails (spread out) I tend to give up in all honesty.

When things don't work out for me (which is almost always) and I ask them for some help/feedback/suggestions they go:

  • Its the economy, reapply and you will be fine (they must be hiring someone right?)
  • Its the competition, reapply and you will be fine (i know people with minimal qualifications/experience/EC's getting offers so I can't always believe this!)
  • Its bad luck/a numbers game (all the time?)

Been applying for 3 years now (networking for 2) and hearing the same things over and over. Am I missing something here? Is it a signal to not do IBD and do something else? Or am I just genuinely always unlucky? If so, maybe I should short stocks and switch to working on bankruptcy deals. lol

Any suggestions are welcome.

Mar 5, 2017 - 5:44pm

Starting it back up again - Networking (Originally Posted: 12/02/2012)

I sent out some networking emails back in March, some I got replies but those trails eventually went dry or the ones that led to interviews didn't lead to jobs.

I'm going to try again with the people who never responded. Is there anyway to go about doing this? I assume I should start a new email thread, and not just tack on to the old one which they never responded to? In the new email should I mention that I tried contacting them before? If I try a new email (such as their work) should I mention that I tried to contact them back in March through the other email they have listed?

Thanks!

Mar 5, 2017 - 5:46pm

I always reply on the same thread that I originally sent. In the event that they meant to respond to it, and it just got buried, it'll show them that they still haven't responded to you. It also keeps the clutter down in the mailbox.

If they deleted your old e-mail replying on the same thread would show that this isn't the 1st time you've contacted them. Whether that means you're being a pest or persistent depends on who you're e-mailing. I feel like keeping it to one thread and one e-mail address reduces effort on their end, which is what you want.

All in all, make it easy for them to help you, if they should choose too. My 2 cents anyway...

"Do not go gentle into that good night"
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Mar 5, 2017 - 5:45pm

Thanks for the response. Anyone have some more thoughts?

Should it be the same thread? When should you mention previous emails? Should you do it for emails that were never answered?
I guess my question could be divided into three categories:

1. Emails initiated by me 9 months ago that were never answered.

2. Emails initiated by me 9 months ago that got a warm initial response, and then when I responded, there was no more response (including subsequent follow ups)

3. Emails initiated by me 9 months ago that got a warm initial response, followed by a good conversation, but because we decided we couldn't do anything at the time, we stopped trading emails.

Mar 5, 2017 - 5:49pm

Dude, you're thinking too much about it. Just shoot them an email saying..

Hi ____,

Thanks for speaking with me last time. It was extremely helpful in blah blah blah. I'm currently looking into XYZ opportunities and was wondering whether you have time for a quick chat over the phone sometime this week.

Name Here.

Banking.
Mar 5, 2017 - 5:50pm

when i see these kinds of threads, i kind of cringe. the thing that i realized the most about networking/life in general is that you should just treat people like people.

obviously, you can't be like 'what's good bro,' but just treat the people you've been keeping touch with like they're an older friend or mentor. take an interest in their lives, ask to catch up, etc.

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Mar 5, 2017 - 5:51pm

Networking Difficulties (Originally Posted: 12/04/2012)

Hey all,

So I'm trying to land an equity research internship next summer at a BB. I've successfully networked with two so far and am looking to connect with J.P. Morgan. The problem is that they aren't recruiting on-campus and their is no one in the alumni database that works in research. So, I wanted to see if you guys have any other ideas on how to network, or if I should just submit my online app and hope for the best?

Would it be appropriate to cold email an alumni in a different division and ask for their advice/help? Should I call HR and ask to set up some informational interviews? Any advice or ideas would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

"My dear, descended from the apes! Let us hope it is not true, but if it is, let us pray that it will not become generally known."
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Mar 5, 2017 - 5:52pm

Actually, this problem is not specific to J.P. Morgan. I'm going to apply to other BB's as well and am facing the same issue.

"My dear, descended from the apes! Let us hope it is not true, but if it is, let us pray that it will not become generally known."
Mar 5, 2017 - 5:53pm

Yes its appropriate. You can also reach out to random people who might be a "2nd connection" via Linkedin. I did this and received interviews. You just state you saw you had a connection in common and wanted to reach out regarding the ER internship opportunity. Lots of people are connected from bank to bank and so this is an easy method to use. Its a bonus if they went to like the same MBA program or something. The ones I got were randomly connected to each other and still worked.

Frank Sinatra - "Alcohol may be man's worst enemy, but the bible says love your enemy."
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Mar 5, 2017 - 5:54pm

Thanks for the tip. If I contact an alumni in IBD for instance, do you think I should ask for an informational interview, or should I ask if he could refer me to someone within research?

"My dear, descended from the apes! Let us hope it is not true, but if it is, let us pray that it will not become generally known."
Mar 5, 2017 - 5:56pm

Get an informational interview. It will be more effective and if he likes you he will be more willing to help.
Plus, if you change your mind on what you want to do, you will have a contact in his field. I take any phone call i can get when networking: 1. To get experience/confidence on phone interviews 2. For the contacts he could offer me.
Good luck.

Mar 5, 2017 - 5:57pm

Is it true that equity research usually just recruit experienced candidates?

All we need is just a little patience
Mar 5, 2017 - 5:58pm

czyccs:
Is it true that equity research usually just recruit experienced candidates?

Some banks have undergraduate equity research programs but some do not. There are certainly less opportunities than banking.

"My dear, descended from the apes! Let us hope it is not true, but if it is, let us pray that it will not become generally known."
Mar 5, 2017 - 6:00pm

Please do not actually say the phrase 'informational interview' when talking to an employee at the firm. You can ask the about their experiences or perspective, but the phrase 'informational interview' is all sorts of awkward.

Mar 5, 2017 - 6:02pm

How to network into IBD (Originally Posted: 07/28/2013)

Yes I know this question is extremely noobish

Who specifically should I network with? (analysts, associates, MDs, etc.)

What do I say in the initial e-mail or message

How should I ask for an informational interview

What do I ask in the informational interview

How to ask for an internship at the firm or more contacts at their firm

How to keep in touch with them

Mar 5, 2017 - 6:10pm

Networking into IBD (Originally Posted: 08/03/2013)

I attend a semi-target school and have found the alumni network to be quite involved in IBD. When trying to establish contacts within banks, would one contact an analyst/associate first, or just jump to speaking with higher-ups (VP/MDs)?

My situation is such that I'm a rising junior and need to start networking now. Does my time situation require me to jump to MDs immediately?

I appreciate the help.

Mar 5, 2017 - 6:11pm

I would not worry about who you are connect just connect with everyone possible. Who knows how many of the MD's will answer so begin networking with anyone that is willing to give you the time of day do not be picky. You still have 6+ months so I would not worry. I began networking the same time as you and landed 5 interviews and I am a non-target.

Mar 5, 2017 - 6:12pm

You're a junior. You aren't in a hurry. Just because you haven't been prepping for IB since you were 5 doesn't mean you have to hurry "networking" which is essentially relationship building. Reach out to everyone and anyone you can. The more you hop on the phone, the more comfortable you will get speaking about IB and telling your story.

Mar 5, 2017 - 6:13pm

Networking Insight! (Originally Posted: 08/05/2013)

So I have been trying to aggressively network with people from Bulges for FT (I know it's late and usually they don't do FT recruiting because most summer analysts return, but I figured doesn't hurt to try)

Got some feedback which led to phone calls. Went well. Some analysts said maybe they can try and get my resume through.

I wanted to ask you guys, as some of you may have insight around this, how likely is it that when an analyst passes your resume to HR does it lead to a phone screening? I just really want to get my foot in the door.

So far I have been cold emailing analysts and associates. Any advice on how to improve my process? Thanks in advance for the help.

Mar 5, 2017 - 6:19pm

987654321123456789:

I have been emailing both alumn and cold emailing.

I would like to think that my resume is decent, not the best, but above average.

Should I email MDs? or highest I go is associates?

I think that you can only gain from emailing MDs at this point. I think you should go for it and hope for the best.

Try to get alumni as well as family friends or friends' friends to help you.

Mar 5, 2017 - 6:22pm

Zzari:

I e-mailed alumni from my school who were MDs and they ended up passing on my resume after a phone conversation. Definitely can't hurt. On the other hand, I might be a little wary of cold e-mailing MDs who you have no connection to...

I've cold e-mailed MDs and higher that I have zero connection to. There's just a lower chance of them replying/helping you and you really have to sell yourself on the phone (if you get em on the phone). It's not like you'll be blackballed for e-mailing someone you have zero connection to.

Mar 5, 2017 - 6:23pm

Am I networking correctly? (Originally Posted: 08/06/2013)

This past week I found a lot of alumni on linkedin and sent out requests to connect. Several have accepted. For the ones that accepted, I sent out follow up emails to a few mentioning that I will be in New York in a couple weeks and it would be great if we could meet etc.. Then I said if that doesn't work a phone call would be good too.

I am a little concerned that it was wrong to ask them to meet before I have talked to them over the phone or anything like that. I just read on an older thread that you should not ask them to meet, but in other places I have read that it is fine. Could someone clarify what I should do in the future when sending these emails?

Also, on a separate note, one of the alumni I connected with responded right away (before i emailed him or anything) saying he would welcome the opportunity to give me some advice over the phone. He is a director at a BB, he works with CMBS. Any specific question recommendations? Should I ask him if there is anyone else he can put me in touch with?

Mar 5, 2017 - 6:25pm

I would request an informational phone conversation first. Then towards the end of the phone conversation request that they meet for lunch/coffee and then follow up with email to schedule if they approve.

twitter: @StoicTrader1 instagram: @StoicTrader1
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Mar 5, 2017 - 6:27pm

Networking game (Originally Posted: 08/13/2013)

I was always told for networking to never to include your resume in the first email but wait until they ask for it. If they don't ask for it in their response, is there anyway to subtly say it without offending them?

I was thinking something along the lines of:
"yadadada....would you like me to provide my resume for your reference?"

What do you guys think? Yay or nay?

Mar 5, 2017 - 6:28pm

I always provided mine. If you have a solid resume and whoever you email takes 10-15 secs to look at it and are somewhat impressed, I feel as though they would be more likely to contact you. If you don't provide a resume, for all they know, you could be a complete clown and why would they waste their time emailing you back if they have no idea what type of background you have.

Just my 2cents though.

Mar 5, 2017 - 6:32pm

I had a response rife with sarcasm prepared, but someone told me that I should stop doing that. So here's a long, well-thought out answer to your question: yes, it's worth the effort to network with staff below VP.

in it 2 win it
Mar 5, 2017 - 6:34pm

I'd say it's arguably better to network with analysts / associates as they're the ones who are going to be screening resumes, setting up phone interviews, and most importantly they'll be the one's you'll be working with / spending most of your time with if you get an offer...if you can't build a strong rapport with those guys you probably won't get the chance to meet senior staff....this is my opinion anyways

Mar 5, 2017 - 6:37pm

Networking, am I doing it right? (Originally Posted: 02/13/2014)

I'm a soon to be engineering graduate looking at opportunities beyond my technical background, in particular consulting. I'm less sure about finance such as banking but could definitely see myself in PE.

Anyway I know the key to landing these gigs is networking and I've been to 2 previous events for some tier 2 consulting firms. To be honest the whole experience felt like pulling teeth. So for me it felt rather forced and uncomfortable, not sure if the people I spoke to noticed but I definitely feel like I'm not doing it right. So would love some pointers on how some of you deal with it. It's quite clear to me what a person who is networking for a job gets out of such an event but what I wonder is what the company reps get in return. And how best to sell your self to them

Mar 5, 2017 - 6:38pm

When it's networking in person (i.e. not cold email or similar) I usually just approach it like a normal conversation - relax, be friendly and smile. Sure you are already doing all of that, but perhaps you could elaborate on exactly what aspects of it that felt uncomfortable?

It's hip to be square!
Mar 5, 2017 - 6:39pm

Networking – Getting Contacts (Originally Posted: 07/25/2014)

Use EVERY single resource you have. Leaving no stone unturned will undoubtedly yield the best results when it comes to making contacts in IB. This is especially helpful coming from a Non-Target school.

For example, these are some of the recent stones I have looked under:
Email old high school teacher who I only had one class with
Facebook very distant relatives who might have known someone who lived in NY
Was introduced very briefly to someone who went to a target school through a friend. Went to that friend and got HYP students contact info.

You have to thoroughly examine every single person you have ever made contact with and dig as deep as you can to see if there is any possibility at all of them having a connection or knowing someone who has a connection in IB.

Mar 5, 2017 - 6:40pm

Look, I'm not saying this method won't work, but the trick is not to network hard, it's to network smart. Some of the connections you're making sound tenuous at best and I'm skeptical to see if any of it will actually pay off. Like, seriously, looking for someone "who might have known someone who lived in NY" doesn't make you sound like a hustler, it makes you sound fucking autistic. When I was in banking, if some acquaintance from my distant past went out of his way to introduce some acquaintance from his distant past, my brow would be furrowed as fuck.

You can't simultaneously be a non-target and have a low EQ, you just can't. Your whole value-prop as a non-target is that you can bring social skills to the table that aren't necessarily found in your target school counterparts. Literally, that's the whole premise of the bank being willing to take the risk on you. This method shows a lack of social awareness that would set off red flags in my mind.

I wish you luck with it and if you've even found success this way, then congrats, but I think others coming here to find advice should be wary of yours.

“Millionaires don't use astrology, billionaires do”
  • 3
Mar 5, 2017 - 6:41pm

Networking with Others (Originally Posted: 09/21/2014)

Hi, I wanted to hear your opinions on networking with people you absolutely do not know. Should I attempt it?
To illustrate a bit - finding somebody at a BB or MM on LinkedIn, connecting with them and then try to get them on the phone/in person meet.

What do you guys think? Go for it? Don't dare to do it? Other thoughts?

Mar 5, 2017 - 6:43pm

broadstbully:

duh

"I do not think that there is any other quality so essential to success of any kind as the quality of perseverance. It overcomes almost everything, even nature."

Mar 5, 2017 - 6:45pm

THIS IS A TERRIBLE IDEA!!! NOBODY EVER GETS A JOB THROUGH NETWORKING. THE BEST WAY TO GET A JOB IS TO HIDE UNDER YOUR BED AND WAIT FOR SOMEONE TO SHOW UP WITH A JOB OFFER.

OK, now that the trolling is done...

What's your situation? Cold emailing/calling/messaging can help; the worst case is that you wind up with an asshole like me who hates aggressive people and I ignore you or maybe shoot you down a little harder if I find you exceptionally irritating (this is rare but sometimes happens when I am speaking to an English major from -insert amazing liberal arts school here- who thinks he is entitled to a QR job and isn't getting the point that we need someone with a strong stats background.) Then you are onto your next contact.

Oftentimes there are better approaches. Sometimes alumni connections can be really helpful. Again, being an asshole, I normally ignore a lot of emails I get. I usually don't ignore emails from UIUC or Princeton students/alumns, especially those from the College of Engineering or the Bendheim Center, respectively. When I was in NYC and I was one of the only Big Ten alumns, I'd also (often) respond to Big Ten people who wanted jobs at an investment bank. You have to remember that outside of a small handful of schools, most NYC bankers come from East coast schools. People from outside of the east coast find the long trail of people from east coast schools landing jobs at banks relatively monotonous. So if you come from the same large non-east-coast conference as someone else- EG the Pac 8, Big 10, or Big 12, that may be enough of a connection to elicit a response.

The more of a connection you have to someone, the more they are willing to help you. I would recommend "cool-calling" over cold-calling to the extent that this is possible. Find people with a mild to moderate connection and connect with them.

1.) You have to put more into a job than you take out. Think about how you can help people and what you bring to the table. Think about jobs that can leverage your skills and abilities. I am a geeky engineering guy who enjoys programming and stats, and I'm a little bit introverted around people I don't know; I'm a great quant but I would suck as a banker.

2.) Figure out what you have in common with other people and try to be interested in them. "How to Win Friends and Influence People" is a very old book but it's still a good book to read. "How to Attract Terrific People" by Lillian Glass is a little bit newer and is also helpful.

3.) It's tough. But it gets easier with practice.

I've never gotten a job through cold-calling, but this is what I've seen work.

Mar 5, 2017 - 6:50pm

IlliniProgrammer - Thanks, I appreciate a lot the level of detail in your response. I have been trying to connect with Alumni, but I just wanted to see etiquette when it come to complete strangers, but like you said, it depends on much of a connection I have with them. LinkedIn shows only as much as the user is willing to show, so there is that limitation.

My situation would is someone looking to be interviewed for full time IBD recruiting, ideally at a BB. Their # may be really hard to find, but emails I can figure out with their email format, and LinkedIn I can find them easily too.

Mar 5, 2017 - 6:44pm

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Mar 5, 2017 - 6:46pm

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Mar 5, 2017 - 6:47pm

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Mar 5, 2017 - 6:52pm

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Mar 5, 2017 - 6:58pm

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