I'm a HS senior looking to eventualy go into PE, HF, VC or some startup related work. I'll have to take out 150k for Harvard. With a IB to PE/ HF route, majoring in either Econ or Applied math with a minor in CS is it smart to take out 150k? Thanks!
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depends...what are your other options?
any top 10 school will get you into any career you want...can you get any scholarships for any of the 9 other top 10 schools?
also, Harvard has a huge endowment ($42 billion), so they can provide need based aid to anybody they want
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With these choices, I would definitely pick either Harvard or Stanford if I were you. Yeah you can break into IB from any of the schools above, but you will have the best options coming from H/S. You can get a BB offer if you grind hard at ASU, but only H/S can get you a BX/KKR offer out of your current choices.
Every similar school to Harvard (i.e. other Ivies, MIT, Stanford, etc) don't offer scholarships and only need-based aid. While financial aid packages might differ slightly, he will always have to pay around ~150K unless he gets an external scholarship.
so yes, seek out external scholarships...every year millions of dollars of external scholarships go unclaimed because nobody applies
Tf. Im middle class and I didnt need to take out any loans. Curious about the range of your family income. You could also try appealing financial aid, because a lot of my middle class friends were able to get increases in their grants, things like divorced parents or change in the value of assets. Thats really odd, considering the average student loan debt of the graduates is like $4000.
Unless your parents are wealthy but dont want to pay for your college, in which case thats fucked on their end.
Unfortunately, my situation is the one you described in the last part. They're wealthy enough to cover it all but are only going to cover partial.
what was your high school GPA and other test scores?
Damn man. Sorry to hear, thats fucked. Ik its a shit ton of money, but you should really think long term. If you go somewhere cheaper you can definitely still be very successful, considering youre hardworking/intelligent enough to get into Harvard, but you do run a greater risk and are facing an uphill battle. I honestly wouldnt have gotten to where I am today without my school. It makes it a lot easier and the name/network sticks with you for a lifetime. If you end up with a high paying job, which you will if you gun for one, it can be worth it. It’s tough. Different people would choose different things in this scenario.
Personally, I would take it. You only get one undergrad.
Absolutely worth it in my view. You don't get to do your degree again and viewed in NPV terms, the incremental cost spread out over your lifetime and what I'm sure will be a very successful career will pale in comparison to the upside.
I'm definitley open to taking out the loans. On an average finance career path do you have any rough estimates on how long it might take to pay off?
2-3 years.
It depends on your own personal discipline - but you can easily pay it off within a few years. To give you some idea, I had MBA debt of around $110k. I used my income to invest in things other than paying back my debt (and lucked out because I returned like 250% on my real estate equity inside of 5 years), but even making the minimum monthly payments and zero non-mandatory paydowns, I'd be all said and done by 8 years. I could've paid it off with a single associate bonus though.
As a reference, I was also middle class at an Ivy and took out about 60-80K in loans. Paid it off in 1.5-2 years. Just used my bonuses on it and forgoed saving much.
Absoll-fucking-lutley...150k in debt at where rates are today is absolutely nothing. For the peace of mind, recruiting pipeline, alum network is is 10000000% worth 150k.
I can't express enough, it's worth it.
Yes
150k is probably worth it for Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Stanford, MIT, & Wharton. I attend one of those, and there's a dumb amount of opportunities only open to people here (esp. in finance). Otherwise, 150k in debt is pretty questionable. Maybe at Oxbridge? I'm unfamiliar with their process though. Mayyyybe Columbia?
my vote is also yes, worth it.
Very much worth it based on the network, brand name, quality of education, recruiting opportunities, etc.
You can get a private student loan at a less than 1% rate nowadays and if there’s a school worth taking on debt for, it’s harvard. Absolutely go for it.
Yeah but the terms are way lighter on subsidized and I think interest is effectively still 0% right now. The cancel student debt thing seems to be catching on as well, not sure if its worth it to give up cov lite loans that have a chance of being wiped entirely to save 200bps.
only for public schools though for the debt cancellation
Yes, do it.
Really hoping you see this message - I was in an almost identical situation (parents weren’t willing to pay full tuition despite high income and asset base) and thought I was going to have to take out loans to go to a target. I ended up just opening a dialogue with the financial aid office any way and got grants to cover the rest of the cost despite in no way qualifying from a financial perspective. Good schools will go out of their way to make sure students don’t have to take out loans if it can be avoided, so I wouldn’t be so sure 150k in loans is a guarantee
Wow! Any tips on this? My parents don't even want to fill out FAFSA bc we won't get anything
Filling out FAFSA should take literally 1 hour give or take
Have them fill out FAFSA anyway then reach out to the financial aid office and explain your situation, they should be amenable if you grovel/tell them about the potential loan burden
I actually went to Harvard for undergrad and the answer is "yes," but be prepared to suddenly become a small fish in a big pond. You've probably read or seen videos about this, so I won't go into detail, but many kids who would have otherwise pursued STEM at another school end up opting for something softer at Harvard because they get demoralized / intimidated by kids who are much more advanced than them. I had friends from my blocking group who were all pumped up to study math or physics freshman year, but by the end of sophomore year they had quietly changed their majors (or "concentration" as Harvard calls them) to something less quantitative.
In terms of academics, applied math at Harvard is, imho, the ultimate "slacker" major/concentration since the requirements are low and flexible (you can take plenty of non-math classes to fulfill credits), so even people who are not top-tier at math can still pursue it. The good news is that it sounds impressive on paper and whoever you encounter in interviews, etc., will never question your intelligence because of it, but those in the know will see that you opted to take the path of least resistance. I believe CS is now the most popular major/concentration at Harvard (when I was a student, Econ was by far the most popular major) and I am not exaggerating when I say almost everyone you meet freshman year will tell you they are planning to pursue CS (or at least a minor in it). Probably not an issue in upper-level courses, but expect to have less individual attention in freshman year / entry-level CS courses.
Even I as a non target remotely "took" CS50 lol.
Can't copy cause I'm on mobile but the thing you mentioned about getting intimidated, is that common?
I don't go to harvard but something similar happened to me.
I don't have statistics to back this up (just anecdotal evidence), but in my experience, it is pretty common.
Harvard is an unmatchable brand that you will carry throughout your career, I'd go for it unless a comparable top target (Stanford, Wharton, Princeton) gives you a better deal
Since it's all need-based, there shouldn't be any large differences in costs for any of those schools. I think OP should take it.
How did you get into both Harvard and Stanford by now? Harvard SCEA comes out later and Stanford REA comes out later today.
Citadel just hired a mathy quant from Harvard for $1mmm
What is his name?
.
you will always have the harvard stamp man just do It
x
Take Harvard. Maybe Stanford if you have some feeling that you'll pursue an entrepreneurial opportunity in the future, are interested in venture / growth or have a strong preference to study STEM in undergrad.
Give Harvard/Stamford a call and explain your situation. Ask them if they can lower the cost of attendance and say your parents are being cocks. I'm not sure why wealthy parents wouldn't help their children through school, especially one as reputable as Harvard/Stamford. The worst they say is no. If you come across as genuine and explain your situation, they might be willing to help you. 150k is a ton of debt, especially if you realize your true calling is social work 1 year into school. Your steps should be as follows:
1. Beg your parents to pay (ideally at least half, lowering your debt to the 75k range)
2. Beg Harvard for some sort of financial aid (explain to them that u lobbied your parents very hard already and they are being cocks)
3. Apply for scholarships like mad.
Good luck!
If you can go to a lower ranked Top 25 school for $100K less then I would heavily consider that. Just do heavy DD at the schools you visit - figure out if the top investment clubs place well into the avenues you want to go to and what programs are available to fast-track high performers / offer additional resources for those deserving.
Last time I checked, Harvard is completely need-blind if you can't pay for it. (Source: I have 2 friends who graduated this year from Harvard and they both went for free with need-based financial aid).
Something's not checking out...
But if you do have to choose btw loaning 150K for Harvard vs going to UT Austin McCombs/CS for free, I'd pick UT Austin. Much much better value. UT Austin McCombs places well into IB & MBB and UT Austin CS department is top 10. Harvard CS department is kind of a joke.
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Ok Harvard hardo who didn't even go there.
Lots of Harvard hardos I see.
Tbh, I honestly don't get the whole "prestige thing". Maybe my world view is unusual, but people's schools don't impress me. Their intellect does.
I've met too many full of shit kids from Harvard and other "top schools" who only get into places because of their schools but are complete dumbassws. And also I've met too many smart people who went to okay colleges or didn't even go to college. Edge cases? Maybe.
lol @ going to a crappier (although UT Austin is still great) school because it's better 'value'. This isn't a combo meal at Mcdonalds, you don't get to do your undergrad or grad ever again. Don't cheap out.
I think Harvard is definitely worth the monies!
Yes. The return on your investment isn’t greater anywhere else than your education / institution.
Had many friends smarter than me turn down ivies and other “best” programs for full ride at top state schools, etc. They deserved opportunities at least as good as mine and they were just not as available. Sure it’s possible, but the 150k is worth mitigating the risk.
You can also capitalize on your experience especially well since you have a path in mind not just paying for the sake of the name / breadth of opportunities. 150k will be nothing for the path your on. Worth it.
Go to Harvard
500% worth it. As someone who went to a target (and owes his buyside job to it), can tell you the recruitment is on a whole other playing field at one vs. semi-target or nontarget. You have massive brand recognition that opens doors, arguably the best alumni network in the world, and recruiters come to campus (esp. buyside). Completely worth it in every way if you're aiming to work in finance / business after school
UT
Yes, its worth it.
It's hard to say what the future looks like as things seem to be rapidly evolving with the economy, prestige, college costs, etc. but as of 2020, without knowledge of the future, the Harvard name, in our current world opens up endless opportunities for you that are worth well into the 7 or possibly 8+ figures for those with the desire to chase it. For example, it almost ensures you a spot in Wall Street high finance (if you want it); it makes the wallets of angel or VC investors more accessible to you as they are prospecting business proposals; it opens up to you a huge contact pool of rich people who you could have at least some access to.
Would I take out $150,000 in loans to go to Harvard? Yes.
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When I studied, I ended up with more than $100k in debt. Going to a good uni, however, helped me a lot and that money is no longer a problem- I would do the same choice again! Surely go to Harvard, you’ll be motivated to excel and I am sure you will smash it! It’s an opportunity you cannot miss. Good luck :)
Yes any top school like that is worth it. 99% who have done it can pay that loan back in 2-3 years with the job opps and networks you develop
100% worth it. Anyone who gets accepted in Harvard should go, regardless of the cost.
For sure. But also budget for the costs of hanging around elite level people, a crucial part of the experience. Ie. if a Saudi prince invites you on vacation then you gotta go.
As someone who's a first year with ~$90k in debt in IB, I would say 100% do it. You'll be making $130k first year out and that'll quickly progress towards $200 as you move to Associate or PE/HF. You'll have the debt paid off in 5 years if you're smart about your money (I'm going to have it done in 2.5).
I took out $150,000k in student loans to go to much shittier schools (albeit that includes undergrad and grad school)
Go to Harvard
Yes, do that 😀
Hi HSsenior, I’ll add my input to this as my family has gone through the same decision a couple times now.
A few years ago my sister had to make the decision H/S full cost vs UVA for free- Long story short she picked H/S and hasn’t regretted it. The connections she’s made are literally insane and companies internships/research positions are really amazing.
I went the instate college for free route (big fish small pond) and then went hard studying for the gmat senior year to get into a top masters program directly after graduating (~50k). This saved me a ton of money and I landed a pretty good job after but I obviously have a weaker network and struggled to get good internships during undergrad. Given your stats I think that’s certainly possible route for you!
What you need to take into account is that at H/S you will have access to the best internships which could pay for up to a half of the cost (my sister worked a faang internship and made 30k last summer and again this spring). You could do this a couple times and really make up some of the tuition cost.
Finally, I can’t stress the network/random opportunity/chance side of going to H/S.
Your friends’ parents will own their own VC firms or botique ibs. Some friends will drop out to found billion $ start ups. As my sister puts it- “Crazy opportunities are all around you all the time”... something you will not get at an non target.
My advice- H/S are in a league of their own and are worth it all.
I don’t know though. I agree that H/S has a lot of credentials that comes with it. However, like you I chose to study at a non target and get almost a free ride. There is something to be said about the financial ability to do whatever I want and work wherever I want. I don’t have to work 90 hours a week coming out of school to clear out my debt if I don’t want to. Or I can and live like a king in many cities because I don’t have 200k in loans over my head. Or I can work less and still be not having to pinch pennies coming out of undergrad.
The 30k number is an exception due to COVId WFH. Normally you’d need to factor in COL in NYC (or similar) into the calculations which lowers net quite a bit.
I’m also considering doing a masters and saved some money for it, so I’m curious if you’d be able to shine some light on your program and how good an investment it was for you. Do you still work in consulting?
SF COL is way higher than OKC tho.
Yes. You could literally be the biggest dumbass at Harvard, and still get top tier firms interviewing you during OCR. Let's pretend you are the biggest dumbass at H, 99% of people will instantly assume that you are very smart and driven. This is incredibly rare, and going to a top-target comes with bulletproof credibility on your resume for atleast the first 5-20 years of your career. There are less than 10 other school's that can do that for someone. More like 5-6.
Hi! I made this post thinking I had a chance getting into Harvard, but I ended up getting deferred. However, I did get into Columbia via likely letter and was wondering if you thought 150-200k of debt at 0% interest (loan from family) was worth is for Columbia. Thanks!
Yes, I do. So long as you can have a GPA that is above a 3.4 at Columbia, you should have incredible opportunities available to you. I went to a slightly less prestigious school (think Duke/Northwestern), but even then I would take on extra debt to upgrade to Columbia. The ivy brand is worth alot in my opinion
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