Is it possible to be a good father while working IB?
Pretty much what the title says... Obviously it will be hard, but will it be POSSIBLE? I was thinking, hey I could just do it for 2 years n then get out. But my son will be ~6 years old so I don't know about that. I was thinking about consulting but people have said MBBs don't really give you much of a work/life balance either (not to mention all of the traveling). Should I focus more on S&T or corp fin seeing as the hours are not as long? Or am I just freaking out about the horror stories of hours in IB?
Three important things that determine how good of a father you can be in IB:
1) How senior you are when you become a father 2) Your personal attitude towards work 3) How much you want to be a father
If you're an analyst (i don't want to know how or why) or an associate when you become a father, it's fairly difficult to be a good one in my opinion bc of the relative lack of control you have on your time.
VP is still difficult, but you have the ability to set how you work (work from home, be efficient, etc.) in the process so it's definitely possible.
MD or above is when it's all about what you want to do. The people who are good fathers make it a priority in their decision tree. The workaholics who stay at the office all the time and try to spend all their time on the details generally aren't that good. The worst cases are the guys who got married bc everyone else did and don't actually want to have a family.
That's my 2 cents on it.
Well I'd be an analyst with a 6 year old if all goes well as I continue down this path. Failed contraception is your how and why lol
Dang, that sucks.. You should've just ran away LOL
criminally underrated comment. I laughed.
idk why i laughed so much but thanks for making me
Ya, most of the people I've known in my position have.
We refer to them as "scumbags" haha
Wow dude, that's tough. I'm in consulting and my average week is about 65 hours. I've had one terrible week that was 85 hours, and a few 75 hour weeks. Now 75 hours is probably considered a really light week in IB, but it's still really shitty. That's 15 hours a day plus occasional weekend work. In those weeks, I barely see my wife, and it sucks. I'm lucky that my wife is very understanding and supportive, but if she wasn't it would make things very difficult. I can't even imagine throwing a kid into the equation, and all this is for consulting. As an IB Analyst, I think it's basically impossible. I know that's not what you want to hear, but you cannot have a family as an IB Analyst. Are you still with the mother? Do you guys live together? Does she know what type of time commitment it is? If she is SUPER supportive and understanding, then I suppose there's a tiny chance you can make it work, but if you're the primary caregiver, then just forget about IB.
We split up a little bit ago so we're sharing custody, but if I were to move to some place like New York I don't know what would happen... I know there's a single mother here who has gotten a job in IB with a son, don't know if she frequents this board that much. When we were still together she knew what I was trying to get myself into and would have been supportive, but then bullshit happened and I had to kick her out.
Shit, that's rough man. So what's the arrangement? You get your kid on the weekends type thing? If custody is actually split 50-50, I think you should look into a different career dude. Just my honest advice. Consulting at a good non MBB is quite lucrative as well and way less demanding on your time.
you are going to get raped for custody as an "investment banker" thats for sure
I'm getting him on the weekends now cause I planned my classes before I kicked her out. Honestly I can't say I'm even really sure on what I want to do, but I'd like to get some experience in an industry where I can potentially get into a top business school (even though I guess it doesn't really matter what job you have, but how you do that job) and find interesting.
S&T seems like the next best thing to me but the risk might not be something I feel like taking while trying to raise a child. Corp Finance always seemed like an attractive job to me though... seems more stable but not as much potential upside.
What really attracts me to IB besides for it being interesting, is that I would like to be able to afford everything that my kid needs... he wants to/can go to exeter or eventually h/y/p/whatever? I'd like to be able to send him there. he has a natural talent in baseball? I'd like to buy the necessary equipment and training to help him to fully develop his talents. Not doing so good in math? tutor. Wants to go to the best clown school in the country? done. whatever. But I also think he would want to see his dad every once in a while lol so I don't know if IB would be worth it. I would not have a fucking problem working these hours if being a dad wasn't my #1 priority, but shit happens and I wouldn't change a thing. I mean, if it's the least bit possible, I think I could do it. My family members have always been very family oriented and I'd like to think I'm the same way.
SB man for not being a "scumbag."
You can do sales part of S&T, thats not as risky and u can get a standard bonus that can be saved frugally while seeing your son. definitely can afford college if u save a few years (since he is 9, u got like 8-9 years of bonuses).
IBD will not allow u to see ur son. my roommates are in ibd too and we haven't seen each other for months.
Yeah, honestly, sales seems like the shit – I've liked every sales guy I've met to date, though I personally am more attracted to the the work – big picture – in corporate finance (investment banking). They work market hours (do get in early though) and are paid well, I think as much as bankers, if not more. I would imagine the comp is more performance/business based at the earlier level than in corporate finance investment banking.
lol thanks
to boutique: FUCK lol... is there a path to go down where one could eventually break into I-banking down the road?
If you get into IB with an MBA you start off as an associate sometimes right? They don't work as much as analysts correct?
Kids and Banking (Originally Posted: 01/03/2010)
So here is what I am wondering. I recently got engaged. I am 25, she is 28. After 1.5 more years in my current job, an MBA, and 1 year in banking, I will be 30, and she will be 33. Personally, i think after 4 years of marriage and her age, its the perfect time to start getting pregnant. We know we will want to have just one kid, but I worry about being able to live in NYC on a 95K base salary, MBA debt, and little savings with a stay-at-home mom and a child. What do you think? Has anyone here had this experience? Will I basically just have to live frugally and via credit card until bonus time? I figure the years where the kid won't have any recollection of who was there is the best time for me to be pulling those 100-hour weeks. I figure by VP/MD years my child will be at the age where I can take advantage of being around more for him/her. What does a 2-bedroom apartment in manhattan go for? Where do most associates live assuming they are working in the finance district? 95K, according to paycheck calculator, is 5,600/month take-home living in NYC with a wife and 1 child. is that enough to live in NYC??? I was thinking its 2500 for a decent 2BR.
Ha! yes always and NO! read Monkey Business, being an associate is said to be the worst job in IB on the street.
In short, not really. Your estimates for housing are extremely low (especially if you assume you will be living in a relatively nice area). If you do not mind living in the really seedy parts of Brooklyn and Harlem, it could be doable. But, if that's that is the case, you'd probably rather live in the suburbs. One of the associates in my group had a wife and two young children. He was a corporate lawyer before he made the move into banking. He lived in the suburbs while he was an associate and made the commute.
Housing in NYC has come down quite a bit but it's still fairly high. This forum is particularly helpful with housing-type questions. I've picked out one thread in particular but there are many more like this, and I'd assume your question-type has been asked: http://www.city-data.com/forum/new-york-city/849334-175k-enough-live-go…
And, if you want a quick sample size, go to nybits.com. I find an apartment there for $2,390/month in downtown Manhattan, but I'm not sure if that would be the type of place you'd want to raise a child.
Only you can know what type of lifestyle you would like to lead. But, with a stay at home mom and a kid, and having MBA debt, it will be very very tough.
You can factor in the bonus all you like (Which will ultimately bump you up into the 200k-400k range as the years progress) but its' never a sure thing. Bankers almost always live beyond their means and factor in the bonus as a 'sure thing'. It's not wise.
I don't really understand your current situation. Are you an associate right now given that you are 25? Are you at a BB? Why wouldn't you be able to save enough money through your bonus to cover your MBA expense to the point where the debt payments will be inconsequential? Does your gf have 0 income?
Need more details such as what is your current job. If you can't afford an MBA then simply don't go yet and wait 1-2 years. Why do you need a MBA anyways if you are already an associate?
Finally, many of your questions are also very easy to figure out if you currently 1. receive compensation 2. live in NYC. Are you moving to NYC? If you're not currently in NYC then I can understand your concern. Half of your questions are unanswerable without more details and the other half are easily answered by using google/craigslist and shows your laziness, aka:
"What does a 2-bedroom apartment in manhattan go for?" - What are we, real estate agents? Look on craigslist. There are many different areas and the range between the cheapest and the most expensive is a hundred fold.
"Where do most associates live assuming they are working in the finance district?" - Anywhere you can afford. Some even live in Jersey and commute. Associates are not robots that all live and settle in the same place and hold hands walking to work. Everyone is an individual, this is like asking "where do taxi drivers live". Anywhere they want.
PS: You are 25 and name yourself gordon gekko with the actual image of Gordon Gekko. The amount of toolishness this displays is almost incomprehensible to most bankers in the business. Tone it down chief.
This could be a brutal alimony scenario in the making.
2500 for a decent 2BR? That is not even enough for a 1BR in most high rise buildings in Manhattan. You should prepare a minimum of 3500-4000.
not in your position, but the point about not living beyond your means is a pretty important one. if you plan on having a kid and your (future) wife is going to stay at home, your entire family is going to be dependent on your income.
just don't forget, over the 8-10 years it'll take to reach SVP/MD level, there's a fairly reasonable chance you'll be fired tomorrow for really no reason at all other than being in the wrong place at the wrong time. and if it's really the wrong time, you might never find another job that pays close to 50% of what you made in finance.
so a good idea not to overstretch yourself financially
I think you'll be fine. If you get a 1 br to begin you can save some money for about 2 years. There's no reason for the extra bedroom while you are trying to get your wife pregnant, she is pregnant, or the kid is going to be waking you up every 15 minutes. So why not wait the ~2 years to upgrade to a 2br. At that point your debt will be paid off and your will be making ~$300k all in. At that point you should be fine living in NY in a decent place. By the time your kid is of age for private school you'll be at least a VP or you'll be out of banking and it won't be an issue either way.
So you're asking IF you get into b-school, IF you get into banking, IF you get married, IF you have a kid - is it doable?
Well - yes, there are lots of married people with kids who live in the city on less than what a 1st year associate makes. Will you get to live in the same loft in Soho with the rest of your associate class? Probably not.
My question is - what's your alternative? If you want to do finance AND have a kid by 30, you'll do it. Will anything really change your decision? "Oh I can't afford a doorman building in Flatiron, so let's hold off having a kid for a year?"
.
And I am already engaged.
That's what I figured, I knew no one with your username could be a current banker.
Okay then my advice is to save up and work a few more years before taking such a huge risk, there's not even a guarantee you'll be able to career switch with the current market. Taking a 100k debt hit with no guarantee is not very smart. Also, you realize most associates get a 40k signing bonus right? So its not just waiting for the year end.
1) get married first, then make 1 year then 2 then 3 then 4.... sounds dumb but planning the next 5-8 years can come back and bite you in the ass if it does not go how you plan
2) base salary will be higher in whatever year you plan to enter a BB as nyc rents should be higher as well. keep in mind that nyc is not the only option for banking
3) if your plan on your wife not to work then yes it may be tough.
i am 26 and my wife is 30. we both work and not planning on any kids anytime soon. why? we still enjoy living it up and want to pay off the house first. but thats out plan and yours seems a little different so yes you can do it. will it be tough? sure but nothing that cant be done with a good partner at home. if banking is the route you want to go then start educating her now and let her know what to expect. also let her know the possible comp you can make down the road so the time you are away from home is helping to put everyone in a better place(home, schools, etc etc) I am in trading and my wife knows a lot about my job and why I work a lot etc etc. she also knows when bonus time comes that $$ for us. having a strong base at home is key to making it work..kid or no kid
good luck
Thank you all for the feedback.
1styearbanker: I know its toolish. Its an anonymous online screen name. Get over it.
Also, I don't mind asking you stupid questions since you have enough time to write a lengthily reply. Why don't you go check craigslist for me and post it on here? Thanks...heres 50 cents...
Thanks for the NYbits site. Here is a place for 3K a month, 2BR right in the finance district:
http://www.nybits.com/apartmentlistings/5e1ead2aaba8dcbb82b6964a1776a40…
That seems doable. And cenvient in location. Why is it so cheap? Is the finance district a bad place to live?
On the whole, apartments in the Financial District are usually cheaper than apartments in other parts of Manhattan. The reason simply being that after 6pm, the Financial District is pretty dead. It is definitely a safe area, but there is not much to do at night. Anywhere you'd want to go, you'd have to take the subway and/or cab it. I had many friends/colleagues who lived in the Financial District as analysts. They lived in pretty posh buildings like the one you indicated but hated that it took them a serious commute to get uptown.Taxis add up in cost.
After 9/11, many banks found headquarters elsewhere. Barclays, BofA and MS are in midtown, CS is in Gramercy, Citi is in Tribeca, and I think GS is moving headquarters (?). Schlepping from the Financial District up to Midtown is easily a 20-30min commute. I think the only banks still down there are DB and GS (and then the ratings agencies).
In any case, if you are going to look into a 25+ min commute, you might as well get a house in Westchester or something.
I agree with the posters above who recommend living in a 1BR for a few years and save up money. Hopefully, by the time you are with child, you are a VP and can sustain a nice 2 BR in the UES/UWS or something.
GS is moving from 85 broad?? this year?
Well shit...here I was thinking I would be close to work.
Are no-fee apartments preferable? Is the fee included in the advertised price? Does the renter or the owner pay it?
Corp development would be a good choice.
I dont' recommend big 4 audit, its harder than ppl say to move and its just as crappy hours during tax season with crap pay of 55k and miserable bonus.
MBB consulting would be good or some kind of strategy consulting thats non-MBB.
I mean other than that u need to just pick a job with good hours and go to a top MBA to break into IBD later.
Have you thought about portfolio management, research, hedge funds? I'm not sure what your background is but perhaps these are viable options. good luck
Research or corporate development
This.
If I were in a situation where I needed an okay work-life balance, a more than respectable income, and the ability to keep some baller exit-opportunities on the table, then I would definitely be looking to break into Equity Research.
don't you have to work s&t before getting into a hedge fund? like I said, s&t seems really interesting and even something I was considering over IB before I was worried about the hours... it's just the risk that gets me. Is there just as much risk working for a hedge fund?
I dunno, I think I should stop being a pussy
Why would you have to work in S&T to work at a hedge fund? Completely depends on the type of fund
Well I figured a hedge fund would be for people who have SOME experience in something on Wall Street... I mean, I've heard of IB -> HF in more qualitative funds but I figured that getting into HF straight out of undergrad would be as hard as getting into PE straight out of undergrad
Am I wrong?
I've noticed nobody has either encouraged/discouraged me from S&T... can anybody tell me why? Is S&T not really a good job for getting into a top MBA? or am I missing something?
MBAs just aren't very highly valued along the S&T career path. MSF is probably more relevant
Hey I'm sorry to hear about the break-up. Your biggest variable right now will be the relationship with the mother. If she BS's you with the custody arrangements that can really throw a wrench into your plans. Does she have decent earning potential as well? That will also matter. If not, then the c/s will most likely be based off of your earning potential and you might get stuck with the highest bracket depending on your state.
As for being a good parent, well, that really depends on what you define a good parent as. Is it important to you that you are there every single day and at every single little league game? Then IB won't work out in all honesty. My current internship is working out great, some days I have had to get creative with getting help to stay longer, etc, but in the end it is all working out. I also specifically targeted this firm because I saw a news article where the MD talked about wanting a little more family-friendly environment. I think I got really freaking lucky to be honest. I also work on deliverables from home a few nights a week. If I were at a BB I know there is not a chance in heck that would be going on right now lol. It depends on where you want to be. Is it really important to you to go to a BB and take that path? Personally I decided I was never a candidate for the conventional path to begin with, so I knew if I was going to get in the door I would have to do it via unconventional means. About two years ago I decided I would never be able to get into IB or S&T because of having a kid and decided I would just go the CorpFin route. BUT... I just was not happy with the thought. I pursued IB because I love working on deals and finance is something I truly enjoy doing. I found an avenue that pulls together all of my background experience and interests and helps me do well in my position. I'm also toooooootally fine with the idea of staying in the MM Boutique zone, I don't need to go on mega fund deals to feel like I made it ya know? I also think the MM zone is underdeveloped and has a lot of room for growth so it works out for me. I am also the sole provider and all financial responsibility lies on my shoulders so that is another motivating factor for me.
My mom was a flight attendant when I was growing up and my father travelled for weeks at a time for his job. We had icelandic au-pair girls to help out and I can say that I never felt unloved or abandoned because of them being gone. (I will be getting one myself once I hit full-time). I understood early on that my parents needed to travel for their work, that was just how it was. I personally don't buy into the Disneyland childhood that the media seems to love to promote. One of the reasons I am still going for higher positions and looking to move is because I really want to move to a foreign country with my child for a few years, its important to me he gets the global exposure like I did growing up. IB is a great way for me to make that happen.
Being a good parent to me is about preparing my son for the world, and I don't believe it is good for them to have parents that stop fulfilling their dreams just so they can be at home and take them to the park every Thur afternoon. To me its about being a role model to show them that they can do what they want in life if they are not afraid to work for it. Life doesn't stop just because you become a parent, if anything it means you have to start pushing harder. It really sucks sometimes when I take my son to school and see all these moms doing the PTA thing - moments of intense guilt that I am doing it all wrong wash over me. But at the end of the day I am just not that kind of mother anyways so I get over it. It just really depends on how traditional you are too in your views of parenting and lifestyle. At the end of the day you have to do what you are comfortable with, and if you feel that the sacrifice is worth the results, then by all means go for it. Going the 2yr analyst route is not really that long of a time period at all in the big scheme of things, especially when you can get yourself set up to provide comfortably for your child thereafter. Beats counting dollars every month at a regularly waged position IMO.
Hope this helps somewhat.
Thanks Anon
so corporate development seems like a type of job where you can show that you belong in a top MBA through experience... is it the same with equity research or is an MBA usually not the way to go after that?
Honestly, I know I'm coming off as just wanting to go to a top MBA (I'd be lying if I said I don't want to) but all of these jobs seem interesting so I figure I might as well figure out as much as I can about them. Out of all of these jobs, which one would allow somebody to transfer to another type (ibd, ER, corp. dev., s&t) the easiest? I've read that some types of jobs kinda pigeon hole you.
Getting an MBA is more than just your work experience, there are a lot of other variables into play (like your extra curricular activities, undergrad performance, GMAT) that will make you just as competitive as the IB/consulting person applying for the same spot.
I believe that S&T would pigeon hole you more than IB would. It's easier to transition from IB to S&T, but not the other way around.
I really don't understand why you are so hung up on getting an MBA. Not trying to hate, but you could make a killing in sales with great hours and not have to lose income + incur debt for 2 years in school. If you go into research you are more likely to need a CFA rather than an MBA.
The pigeon holing is what gets me. I'm still considering it, just trying to see what is entailed with other career choices. They all seem pretty interesting. I got some time to have it all figured out so we'll see.
SB for Scott. Good luck man.
Why not think about corporate development or management/leadership programs at big tech or F500 companies? People outside of WSO definitely do not consider these "lesser" than finance jobs as a whole, just a different career path, and honestly in a lot of cases they are probably better lifestyle and better pay. Obviously finance will pay more at the top firms, but compare corporate development/product management at Google or Microsoft with a random no-name boutique somewhere. You will have much better "exit opps" at Google than at a tiny boutique who focuses on the corner deli/bodega industry. I'm exaggerating but you get my point.
Sure, you're may not have the upside of potentially making millions as a partner/MD, but your career is much more secure and you will certainly be able to have mobility if you do well. And the lifestyle is so much better, which sounds like exactly what you need with a young kid to partially raise. And please don't think the only way to pay for your kid to go to HYP is by working on Wall Street - that could not be further from the truth. You can make a very, very good living at a F500 company.
This thread is like an episode from "Full House."
Corp dev for a company like AEP (dont think cardinal health or nationwide have such good M&A teams) in columbus is also great u can do M&A, raise a child in one of the best places in the US, ( check out Dublin, OH) live a great lifestyle , and unless your company wants you to get an MBA then honestly i don't really think it is that important.
NO
FARTMAN
Repellat ea sint nam consequuntur vitae eius quasi. Ut quia error harum reiciendis unde. In quod delectus eos.
Sint omnis et temporibus asperiores impedit asperiores. Accusamus voluptate labore laboriosam error eos deserunt. Dolores voluptas nemo natus dolorum. Doloribus repellendus porro accusantium non culpa sint repudiandae.
Pariatur tenetur quas eaque ut consequatur. Porro dolor aperiam aut sit eum officiis. Id maiores labore ducimus vero error reprehenderit. Saepe dolore nihil rerum et odit. Sit doloribus et dolore nemo consectetur est exercitationem. Quo eveniet laudantium officiis natus.
Omnis ad nisi ut autem. Ut similique modi assumenda at sequi quod fugiat accusantium. Non inventore quaerat consequatur quod quia. Aliquid ut repellat quia aliquam id occaecati. Rem libero voluptas nesciunt id ut repudiandae et doloribus.
See All Comments - 100% Free
WSO depends on everyone being able to pitch in when they know something. Unlock with your email and get bonus: 6 financial modeling lessons free ($199 value)
or Unlock with your social account...
Doloribus fugiat consequatur eos ullam ducimus molestiae vitae aspernatur. Ut ut dolor nam architecto. Impedit vel asperiores animi rem aliquam rem. Accusantium saepe dolores accusamus corporis et voluptates ut. Labore natus aut quod possimus adipisci.
Qui est iusto ducimus quia. Magnam cumque nihil consectetur repudiandae beatae. Nam distinctio labore voluptatibus quam et.
Aut saepe illo totam id. Voluptatibus voluptate rerum molestiae sint ipsum. Consequatur veritatis veritatis sunt ut aut consequatur et accusantium.
Enim pariatur praesentium et qui fuga. Voluptate quidem iste sapiente veniam odit ut voluptate. Distinctio quia nihil vel recusandae placeat quam minima.
Eum laudantium eum ut. Aut reprehenderit dolorum soluta qui in voluptas et. Est illum et deleniti enim quia. Accusantium deleniti quod numquam.
Dicta et esse omnis in. Asperiores ab aut soluta similique illo ab. Corrupti dignissimos dolor et nulla dolorem ducimus et. Natus unde optio beatae quis.
Dolorem voluptatibus itaque iusto maxime iure doloribus aut minima. Voluptatem itaque distinctio ratione sunt. Corrupti perferendis est aut perferendis animi. Molestiae quo voluptatum ab accusantium.