Is the JD/MBA Worth It at Northwestern?
It's ridiculously expensive, like 80k+ a year for three years, but it somewhat fits my career goals. I'm honestly very indifferent right now between wanting to be a corporate lawyer or management consultant. I feel Northwestern's JD/MBA program would give me flexibility, and if I strike out of BigLaw, it'll give me a much larger safety net of six figure f500 MBA jobs than pursuing the JD alone. Kellogg is obviously a highly regarded M7 school, and their JD is a t14 law school with good placement in "BigLaw."
Right now the choice is between doing purely an MBA at Kellogg, or adding the JD to it. But if I did decide to take the additional year and tuition to get a law degree, would you think the opportunity cost to be worth it? Like, I want to have the ability to pursue biglaw if I suddenly feel the constant traveling of the consultant live is a slog, etc.
But if I did a pure JD, my network would be limited and I couldn't lateral to business away from law as easily, or have as easy as a chance at interviewing for consulting, although MBB does recruit from t14 law schools (but at a much lower rate than M7 schools).
With law school, as i'm sure as many of you know, outcomes are pretty bifurcated. If you're in the top 1/3rd at a t14 (you have more leeway the higher up in the t14), then you can get a $160,000 starting salary job. If you strike out, you'll be making around $50,000 in "shit law." Northwestern's law is in particular "biglaw or bust." That's why I think the MBA could be a potential hedge.
I feel with a JD/MBA combo, while I can't waltz into it, if I strike out of biglaw, I could have "backups" that could give me six figures, like in f500, like fldps, brand management, marketing, business development, operations, rotational programs, etc., that I couldn't as easily get with a JD alone. And I could directly recruit with MBB and tier 2 consulting firms if I decide against biglaw.
Thanks.
i don't think it's worth doing purely as a hedge. if you think the law degree could be beneficial for your career goals, the 3 year Northwestern JD/MBA makes sense but otherwise I'd just stick to Kellogg
Unless you really want to be a lawyer, stick to Kellogg. The opportunity cost of that additional year, assuming you don't have a scholarship, is at least 180k. 60k tuition+120K salary from a f500 company that would hire you as a Kellogg grad (MBB or T2 would pay more and it would be an even worse disparity).
You never said in your post you actually want to be a lawyer. You just said you want biglaw. If you are not 100% determined to be a lawyer, regardless of what you get paid, it doesn't make a lot of sense for you to get a JD/MBA.
I've heard the law degree only has value if you work a few years in a law firm
I completely agree with what people have said, but want to add another very important point. Doing a MBA is fun and easy, for most people it's literally the best 2 years of their life. Going to law school is tough, you actually have to study and your grades more or less determine your employment outcome so it's super competitive. Everyone I know that went to a good law school was miserable (and unfortunately the misery has followed them to Big Law...). Doing a dual degree and having to deal with such different environment must be unbelievably difficult.
Also, the B-School is better than the law school. So if set on law, I would try to get into the best law school you can
You say that it fits your career goals but it doesn't feel like you really have one. Big Law with a back up in Corp 500 but maybe MBB is not a career goal nor a set of goals. An extra year of no work and paying tuition is a big deal, and as noted, law school sucks. I'd really suggest you prioritize one path over the other.
I don't think you really have a grasp on how recruiting works for MBAs vs JDs vs JD/MBA. JD's can still interview with MBB if they want, they'd just better have a good story as to why. A JD/MBA will have to do the same thing, and if you're on the 'undesirable' end for lawyers you risk being on the 'undesirable' end for MBA recruiting. You're probably not going to be able to recruit for internships through the MBA for MBB or FLDP especially if you're prioritizing the law track.
I don't think the $50k annual salary for 2/3 of the law school is even close to accurate, but you would know better than me if you've researched. That being said, a lot of MBA corporates etc pay around $100k and some pay less, I'm guessing law roles that aren't in the $160-200k range will mostly fall around there too, but thats a guess.
JD/MBA's really only make sense for a small subset of people and professions (I'm talking probably less than 1% of people who get a law degree and less than .5% of people with their MBA). For the rest, they end up going through life with one very expensive and wasted degree.
The biggest misnomer folks seem to have with the JD-MBA route is that they are somehow more qualified to deal in legal matters (or that the value of the JD alone, without ANYTHING else i.e. passing the state bar, having experience in a specific practice area, etc) than someone without a JD.
The JD is more of an entrypoint into a profession of highly specialized practice areas (much like an MD --> various specializations).
In the real world, the value of legal advice/perspective comes from one's specialty. There is no such thing as a "general purpose lawyer". In other words, an immigration lawyer's perspective on trademark/patent is about as useful as a dentist's opinion for a cancer patient. Both the immigration lawyer and patent/trademark attorney may both have JDs, and JDs from the same university (and graduated the same year), but their expertise could not be more different and neither would be able to really give advice on each other's area of practice.
Consider this. Go to ANY lawyer you know. And ask them about a legal issue that is not their specialty. The knee jerk reaction almost always is "ahh go ask a lawyer who specializes in that". For the most part they are super careful about not opining on an area outside of their specialty - precisely because they know firsthand that any legal advice worth its salt is about knowing the specifics - the devil's in the details, and you don't learn those "details" to anywhere a satisfactory degree with just a JD - again the JD is just a "starter" and on its own isn't worth much unless you are willing to use that to actually become a practicing lawyer.
Oh, and even though it's just a "starter" - the workload in a JD program can be brutal.
Would you say that if the specialty of law one wants to practice is corporate/m&a law then the MBA could be of "some" use?
Yes, the JD/MBA is more useful for those who are looking to practice law in areas where business know how could be useful i.e. corporate law, trademark/IP in tech. So that the MBA is the secondary degree (they're basically looking to become a lawyer, with a business background, as opposed to a business person with a JD). But then again, there's plenty of lawyers and ex-lawyers out there who are doing just fine without an MBA.
More important question is why would you choose to practice corporate law hahaha
There are a few law firms giving big signing bonuses to JD/MBAs and starting them as 2nd year associates.
It makes no sense. Absolutely none.
I think it's worth tacking on the MBA at Kellogg IF your goal is to be a biglawyer and not if you're leaning toward a consulting or F500 job.
As people above have mentioned, a JD on its own (or even with a year of biglaw experience) is useless for business. A junior biglaw associate doesn't really add any value aside from churning through paperwork and most business / M&A professionals understand the salient legal/business points well enough on their own. To give you an example, a typical PE associate with 2 years of experience should be able to negotiate the major points of a SPA on his/her own, with no special legal training. The areas where lawyers actually add a lot of value is in understanding subtle details and you need years and years of legal experience in a narrow niche to get to that point.
On the other hand, the MBA is by design an extremely broad degree that can add some value to variety of different business roles, including biglaw. Most junior corporate lawyers have no business background so even being in a couple of MBA classes can help you avoid sounding like a bumbling idiot in front of clients. A decent number of firms offer JD/MBA signing bonuses or class year credit which offsets the increased annual tuition. And because Northwestern/Kellogg offers a 3-year program, you're not wasting an additional year. Not sure how grade non-disclosure works at Northwestern/Kellogg, but it is easier to get a business than a legal job if you have crappy law school grades.
Most law schools with business programs allow you to take a few business courses anyways. I still see zero value in the additional cost unless you're going into REPE or something like that. Of course, this is all assuming OP even gets in to both programs.
Hi guys,
Reading your comments to get some perspective, but I guess my situation is a bit different
Stats: NON-top 20 public UG in genetics GPA: 3.62 NON-MD doctorate healthcare field GPA: 3.77 LSAT: 162 (2015) GMAT: 770 (2016) Previously applied pre-GMAT to Northwestern, Georgetown, Berkeley, Penn, UT Austin etc. All rejected Work experience: 1 year strategy consulting in pharmaceuticals (no-name boutique consulting)
Future interests: I'm interested in the JD preferably from a good school, T-14, for work in a biglaw firm. Always has been w childhood passion to be a lawyer and I love that type of thinking. I went into healthcare because it was a safe career path. However, I took the LSATs during my last year of school when it was very rough time wise, cousin attempted suicide the week of my LSATs which was an emotional rollercoaster for the family and I got a 162 because of mostly minimal preparation and laziness. (I was a bit conceited and thought if I could get a 2320/2400 on the SATs, the LSATs should be easy too. :/)
Very long term interest: Build my own biotech company and not sell. I want to create a company which can make an impact in millions of lives.
My problem: Is it worth paying extra and going through additional schooling for the MBA AND JD? For law schools, they average LSATs often and I was already rejected once through the traditional pathways. I figure my chances are low and I'm not exactly stoked to restudy for LSATs. My GMAT is somehow pretty good (almost gave up on law and decided possibly just b school but now i'm reconsidering law if my gmat can get me in), so I think I have a much better shot through a JD/MBA (after maybe 2-3 yrs more experience). As law school is 3 yrs anyways, it isn't too big of a time difference, but I am pretty much struggling financially at this point, and I don't want to take on the additional tuition. The MBA I guess could be handy for my very long term goals as I could pick up some great skills and a strong network from Kellogg
Your work experience + the Kellogg MBA are a great fit for your long term goals. What value do you think the JD will add? If you're cash strapped, the ROI seems pretty low for the combined degree. Too many people think the MBA + JD = Value of MBA Path + Value of JD Path. In reality, there are only some niche cases where that actually plays out (like real estate, as pointed out). The value of the combined is less than the sum of the parts outside of bragging to your grandmother.
Are legal skills important in biotech? Of course. But, unless you spend 10 years specializing in the relevant field of law, you're going to hire a lawyer for most of your patents etc anyways. And that takes away from building the relevant business experience that you seem to value.
Sorry I don't know how to delete this double post
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