Jump trading
I have a friend who is strongly encouraging me to apply for Jump as an algorithmic trader. How do they compare to other proprietary firms (algorithmic shops because that is what I would be doing)?
I've gone through some of the older threads but a lot of the information seems to be outdated or conflicting. Would you say they're one of the top 3 places to go for hft? Getco seems to be consistently ranked as number 1; is there a big gap between Getco and jump? I was planning on doing a phd program in AI or statistics, so I haven't even been considering trading at all and I'm not familiar with the industry. Additionally its hard to find any information regarding these firms because they're so secretive.
If you guys could state where you learned the information (from friends, rumor, work experience etc) that would be awesome as well. Thanks!
There is no gap. Getco/Jump/Citadel/and a number of others are at the top.
It is pretty difficult to only apply to one place and expect to get in there as well. The applicant pool would be nearly identical all around.
No one can really tell you which firms are doing better than others since these firms do not publicize their revenues or profits. However, I think most people in the industry seem to think that among the prop shops, the ones doing the best are HRT, JSC, GETCO, and Jump. In college recruiting, I would say the order of selectivity is HRT > JSC > GETCO > Jump, but I have no idea if that matches up with how they are doing (on some metric like revenue/employee).
Another thing is that these firms have fairly different cultures, and some may be better matched to your personality than others. For example, Getco has a transparent and collaborative culture, while Jump is much more siloed and competitive between groups. You're probably better off making your decisions based on the culture than based on some anonymous internet forum of people claiming that shop X is "better" than shop Y.
Jump is no where near the same level as Citadel or Getco.
This is correct.
This seems correct. Among prop trading, getco/jane street seem to be on their own level. Also maybe teza; I've heard awesome things about them.
Of course, it's still tough as hell to get a job at Jump since they target the best math/CS kids at top colleges. My guess is they only give offers to like 2% of applicants.
Says who? I am pretty confused how this is determined. On pay, technology, size of the firm? They are smaller, but competitive in all other aspects.
They are both market-makers of futures and stock. How do you know their sharpe or their overall returns? You don't.
Your logic here -- that since you don't something, I don't know that thing -- is undeniable.
Considering both are private companies that don't publish that information and I would imagine it is even shielded from 95+% of their employees, I would venture to say that you don't know shit about them.
ORLY? Did you even try googling? I'll give you a hint: start with "Getco Europe".
Go back to algebra 2.
oh snap
Thanks for the replies. And of course I'll be taking everything here with a grain of salt, this thread definitely isn't the deciding factor in my decision haha. Seems people have pretty different opinions, but they seem to be mostly just based on nothing substantial. It'd be nice to hear from some people in the industry but I suppose those people wouldn't post information like that on these boards.
GETCO Europe published how much their earnings were down, which doesn't tell you:
So, you probably want to go back to the drawing board with another stupid post.
What happened to your thesis that there is no publicly available information about them? And that only 10 people in the company know their numbers?
Do you even work in the industry?
Where and when did I say there is no information available about them? I used the demonstrative pronoun that, referring to that data you said can be used to determine if they are better, and said those data points are not available and likely not even known by most within the company.
And yes, I do work in the industry and have helped people here get internships in the past.
For a trading firm, earnings and returns are largely the same thing. And that's just publicly released info, let alone having friends in the business.
When you say you're "in the industry", do you mean the HFT industry?
lol earnings and returns are not the same thing, buddy. The vast majority of these firms are leveraged, including multiple firms in this post, in some form.
Since you know all of this data, why not post it and make me look like the real idiot? Please do--I'd love to see it.
I have no interest in making you look like an idiot. The data is out there; for instance you can search for Citadel's Kensington and Wellington funds' returns/fee structures pretty easily.
I work in this space and was just trying to help the OP.
To the OP: I'd say any of these firms (GETCO, JSC, HRT, CIG, etc) are good places to start in quant trading (whether HF or algorithmic). It's also perfectly reasonable to ask, at the end of the interview process, how profitable the firm is and get detailed profit history so you can do your own analysis about your career prospects.
So you can't provide the information that you don't have. Terrific.
Jump Trading (Originally Posted: 06/14/2011)
Jump Trading has an overnight clearing associate. I am very interested in this job. Could use some info.
What's jump like, salary range for this position, is jump a good company? I can't find anything bout the company.
Also will job use recruiters I could contact. I have bout 1 year experience but eager to find a new role.
Thanks for help.
Jump is pretty well known, i am sure you can find info if you search a bit.
Hmmm. A couple of friends have cycled through there in the past and I visited them once a long time ago. In terms of culture, think startup meets google and oops, we almost forgot we were in the financial sector.
They're in some office lofts on the North side. Everyone comes into work in t-shirts and jeans.
Bear in mind that a clearing role is not a trading role. It's a foot in the door, and for a smart hungry guy at a Chicago prop shop, that can easily be enough- even at a place as big as Jump- but the default career track for an overright clearing guy has you eventually working at a CBOT clearing firm.
If you want to make a career of Jump and some of the other electronic Chicago prop shops- and start seeing some comp that looks more like you work in execution, I recommend studying up on coding- particularly data structures and algorithms. Jump thinks 80-90% of their competitive advantage is in the coding and IIRC, about 2/3 of the partners have some sort of technology background.
Do you have any idea of how pay would be with this position?
Ops has a fair bit of transferability with accounting. Think of a Chicago accounting firm's pay, add a premium for the overnight role, add a risk premium for this being a prop shop that lays off half their people every 2-3 years, and you've got a fair number. I would expect a five figure number that is comfortable for a Chicago white-collar professional rather than some sort of cash bonanza.
You can make a fine career of this- and if you become a manager and eventually a partner at one of the Chicago clearing firms, it will probably put you into the upper middle class and allow you to buy a home in New Trier's or Stevenson's school district.
Work has a policy where we can't discuss our comp numbers, other peoples' comp numbers, or even make numerical guesses at comp numbers. So I can't give you an actual number. But hopefully I've given you enough to go on. For an Accy major from Illinois or Northwestern who was thinking about working in the Big Four, Jump Trading is going to pay pretty competitively for an overnight ops role- just bear in mind that some of that pay is risk premium. But if your choices are Risk Management at an NYC BB vs. this position, it's not worth it. You've got a much better career and a much better job where you are.
Yea that is what I was expecting. Would you think like 60-70k or more like 40-50k.
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