Just Started Sales & Trading Internship, Need Advice

Hey everybody was hoping I could get some advice and thoughts regarding my internship thus far.

I just finished the 6th day of my sales & trading internship at a boutique shop. I graduated last month and this internship can turn into full-time if I prove my worth.

The guy I am working for has been a pretty big douche since the 3rd day in. On day 3 he told me I wasn't meeting his expectations and basically I am terrible. He gives me things to do with no direction and then I do my best to complete the tasks but basically he is continuing to tell me my work sucks. This is my first experience with an I-Bank, worked my ass off to earn this internship, but didn't have any I-bank experience leading up to this. I did however trade on my own throughout undergrad, and follow the market daily so I am very comfortable with the market and understanding everything.

I guess I am having some trouble adjusting from undergrad to the corporate world. Although I didn't slack off in undergrad by any means, earning an award for being the top finance student in my graduating class and a 3.9 cum GPA.

Just seeking some advice on how best to turn this around and get on this guys good side. I communicate with him regularly and have no issues with communication at all. He is just very upset with my performance thus far, and I want to turn this around asap. I didn't work my dick off in undergrad to fail in S&T. And I will figure this out, but would really appreciate input. Thanks in advance. Also note, this is a small boutique with no formal training program.

 

Is there someone junior to him that you can befriend and ask how to improve your actual work or who can tell you how get on his good side, especially someone has been an intern or entry level full timer for him previously? Then just arrive early and stay as late as you need to make your work perfect for the next couple of months. Figure out if there's something you have in common and try to bring it up (from the same place, hobbies, whatever), or if he likes donuts bring him donuts, if he needs a handy to relax, bite the bullet and get down (kidding on that last one...).

You can ask him what you can specifically do to improve but he may be too big of a dick for that. Or he could be testing how you perform under pressure. I've never been in S&T but friends and acquaintances who have been always tell weird stories on how they test and haze newbies.

 

This is such a small shop that he is the only guy right now and I am the first piece of the team he is responsible for building. I appreciate the input, he's so busy that we don't get a lot of time to chat. It's definitely a unique situation and I will continually try and improve every day and get on his good side. It's hard to do that right now though when he doesn't have the best perception of me. In my defense, I have done nothing bad, show up early every morning and leave late every night. Just trying to get as much input as possible because I really don't have a lot of people to talk to about this.

twitter: @StoicTrader1 instagram: @StoicTrader1
 

Not a one man shop. Firm has a couple other offices and about 10 guys in this office. Head of sales is at another office, and this guy is second in line and responsible for building out the team. Firm does ER, Advising and S&T. I graduated from a non-target and might actually be the first student in the history of our school to go right from undergrad to an I-Bank, no joke. Also, figured out I was going to go hard for high finance like halfway through my junior yr so I started very late.

twitter: @StoicTrader1 instagram: @StoicTrader1
 

Ask how you can improve. It may be a soft skill. It's commendable that you graduated at the top of your class. It seems like he may have an issue with communicating with you exactly what he is looking for. Hence your having to come here to ask for advice. The barrier between you is due to his not being good with vocalizing exactly what he wants. This is a managerial skill that isn't learned overnight. Is this guy a younger manager?

I would again, ask what he wants and if necessary ask for examples.

 

What kind of things is he asking you to do? Excel work? Think up actual trades?

I think there always needs to be a balance in these things. If he's 100% a dick then at some stage I'd probably just tell him to fuck off.

You need to just hassle him, not be afraid to ask questions, and figure out what he expects/what you need to do to improve. If he's not helping you at all then what's the point? I read somewhere on WSO the term "politely persistent". I like it. You need to do that.

To be frank, first impressions last and unless you quickly change the situation I doubt he's going to extend an offer. But, he will be getting cheap labour till your internships finishes, even if the work isn't exactly what he expects.

I think you need to be very bold and question him properly. Ask him for a 5 minute chat to let him know what you think and what he thinks of you. Man to man. If he isn't willing to help you learn or improve then fuck him.

 
mrb87:

He sounds like a dick and the place you're at sounds like a shithole. Seriously, who the fuck tells someone after three days that they aren't meeting expectations?

You sound like you are in a role where you supervise people and I thought the same exact things myself. I would never manage my team like this ass hole. He has no management skills. I managed people in the military better than he can manage people. When we had the blow-up I actually asked him if he had ever managed somebody before and he got offended obviously but I was fed-up.

twitter: @StoicTrader1 instagram: @StoicTrader1
 

Had a very similar experience to yours. My MD during ST internship was a massive dusch. Sold me out to the rest of the desk and boned me hard. Here is what you do.

Realize that you are defiantly NOT getting an offer as of now. You need to 180 fast. Here's how:

During a slow period in the afternoon when it's quiet, approach and say "I know your busy, but is there a way we could sit down for 5 minutes? I'd really appreciate it." Tell him you are committed to producing quality work, and that you need to know how you can improve. Focus not on what's wrong, focus on how to improve. It should be about learning and making his life easier, not really about your mistakes. Now, when he tells you what you need to do, there are no second chances. Your work needs to be killer, no mistakes.

Listen, this work stuff is hard. There are no right answers. Best piece of advice I can give you is to forget about your undergrad. It's absolutely worthless. No one cares about your GPA. No one cares if you went to Brown or Community College anymore. Once you have the job it's who produces and who do people like. That's it.

Edit: It would help us to know what exactly he's asking you to do

 
Janet Yellen:
Tell him you are committed to producing quality work, and that you need to know how you can improve.

I tried that very early on. He told me he does not want me to ask how and I need to figure it out on my own.

Thanks for all the feedback everybody here's an update on the situation.

I was informed by the firm today that they want me to stay and my supervisor and I are getting along much better now although he is barely ever at the office (he works from home in another state and we communicate primarily through email).

twitter: @StoicTrader1 instagram: @StoicTrader1
 
BEAST MODE TRADER:

I did however trade on my own throughout undergrad, and follow the market daily so I am very comfortable with the market and understanding everything... ...Although I didn't slack off in undergrad by any means, earning an award for being the top finance student in my graduating class and a 3.9 cum GPA... ...no formal training program.

This is all completely my opinion, but...

These quoted things seem to point to what the potential problem is. I interned at a big physical shop and at an investment bank, and neither had "formal training programs." They give you your work day 1, and you start learning by doing. If you didn't do it right, use the advice already given in this thread to figure out why, write it down, and do not make the same mistake twice. One of the companies had a weeklong general training program, but that was over halfway through the summer, and was really great but was more geared towards making sure the new full-times were fully acquainted with all the products this division dealt with.

So I think your expectations may be a bit off. Furthermore, it sounds like you're trying to succeed by using the same type of thinking that helped you in class, which will generally fail you on a trading floor.

Aside from that, you haven't outlined your specific job functions at all, so it's really tough to figure out anything further, as it could almost literally be hundreds of things.

 

Also, kind of shitty, today is my daughter's 4th birthday and I am here working for a firm that I am unsure will give me an offer, but hopefully I can leverage this experience to get me something good if this doesn't work out.

twitter: @StoicTrader1 instagram: @StoicTrader1
 

I go to a non target LAC as well. Though there are plenty of smart people here who are much smarter then I am, a lot of people lack the drive to be the top. Many people just want a 9-5 job to go home to their family/or go out. Our science department kicks ass with twice the national acceptance to med school (I was pre-med till last term), but there are lot of business students who ditch class or never do the homework. No one really shoots for high profile finance careers, but we do send a lot to the big 4.

 

I'm not disagreeing with you, but I feel pretty strongly that your confidence leans towards arrogance, and having seen some sort-of similar situations to yours, I'd be willing to put money on that being part of why he isn't happy with your work, and that it is somehow flowing through to your work. I know you have put a lot of effort in, but to reiterate - just because you think you are good does not mean you are, and it most certainly keeps you from getting better.

Regardless, it's impossible to make some people happy, and it's pretty bad that he's acting how he is. It sounds like you're doing the best things you can given your circumstances. I hope everything works out for you.

 
Best Response

Look, let me play Devi's Advocate. I'm trying to help you, so don't take any of this personally. But here's how this could also be interpreted, and I think it warrants you spending some time thinking about. These are your exact quotes, and potential rebuttals:

  • “I did however trade on my own throughout undergrad” This has nothing to do with trading at an investment bank, not even close. So this is irrelevant.

  • “and follow the market daily, so am very comfortable with the market and understanding everything.” You do not and cannot know everything, especially from trading your own account. Is that a joke? That's like saying you ran a fantasy football team so you can be GM of the Patriots. Completely different line of business, and you most definitely do not "understand everything." This screams arrogance and inability to be coached, or produce the exact work that he wants.

-“earning an award for being the top finance student in my graduating class” Congrats on being best of the worst. I know plenty of kids that have received an equivalent award and really aren't that special.

-“and a 3.9 cum GPA” Everybody knows GPA is not correlated with trading success, so even though you know everything you don't know this basic fact. More arrogance, irrelevance, and entitlement.

-“I didn’t work my dick off in undergrad to fail in S&T” This screams of entitlement. Working hard at something does not mean you deserve it. Your efforts could easily have been misdirected. (Something along the lines of practice is only perfect if the practice is perfect.)

-“I have done nothing bad” According to you. More things that you say without any logical backing. Maybe everyone else is too nice and would rather just wait for you to be gone in a few months than confront you. Think risk/reward or cost/benefit applied to a social situation.

-“show up early morning and leave late every night” Congratulations on doing the bare minimum required/expected for your job?

-“might actually be the first student in the history of our school to go right from undergrad to an I-Bank” So you're the best of the worst. You expect / feel entitled to something because you outperformed a below average set. This could mean you're just average.

-“he told me that he isn’t here to teach / mentor / take somebody under his wing” He's not, he's here to make money, and you're there to help him make money. If you can't do that, he doesn't have time to mentor you, sorry it didn't work out.

-“i have managed to play office politics very well” So you think.

-“everybody likes me” Or is too polite to tell you otherwise.

-“i am better equipped for S&T than any undergrad” Extreme arrogance, and I can personally guarantee it isn't true. The facts don't line up with that statement at all, at least.

By the way, this is the one that shows what I'm talking about the most. There are some incredibly, incredibly impressive undergrads out there that have been devoted to S&T just as long as you have. What makes you the guaranteed best, exactly?

-“i have been following the market religiously since 2008 (when I made my first investment and was 19) Congratulations... how is this relevant again? Were you seeing order flow all day, every day? Were you constantly talking to multiple experts active in those markets 6+ hours, every day? Were you personally involved in doing the same type of things that the major players in those markets were? You don't know everything, stop acting like you do.

-“and have way more knowledge than any regular undergrad would have” This is simply not true. How would you know this? You admit to going to a school with an extremely unimpressive finance program, so how would you know? As my own thought - I went to a nontarget (except for commodities) with a pretty reputable finance program, and even there, there are kids that will blow your mind.

-“i am also a vet and 25 years old” Sorry, but how is this relevant? I can see how it could be, I could also see how it couldn't be. Absolutely no disrespect meant, but the context you say it in fits right in with your reasoning of "I worked hard, so I deserve this."

-“they were all lazy and didn’t care and I received award for being top finance student” Again, you were the best of the worst. How is this relevant to anything? Because you think you're an expert and are qualified?

-“85% of the clowns” More arrogance.

That all being said, I really do feel for you. There's nothing you can do sometimes with a boss like that. Furthermore, it's impossible to perform at your best (in my opinion) when you can't mesh well with the people/culture you're working with. It sounds like you have worked quite hard at this, and are probably qualified to be a beginner in the industry. Like I said, I really do hope it all works out, and I hope you find this criticism constructive. Good luck man.

 

Colonial, I am just stating my situation. I am confident not arrogant. I am very humble and know I know nothing in this industry and want to learn every day.

I would strongly disagree that as an entry level employee my supervisor should definitely be willing to teach me and be a role model. I also don't expect anything. Just pissed about the situation. Also my confidence doesn't spill over to him as he has told me I need to be more confident. Around peers and my competition I am confident which is how it should be. I know I am just as good as anybody I am competing with. And if you don't have that attitude you should probably develop it, also being humble at the same time.

I can guarantee you that my confidence and what you have mistaken as arrogance has not spilled over to him one bit. I am very respectful and do everything happily that he asks of me. Being 25 was relevant because I was stating my personal experience. I appreciate your thought out response playing Devil's Advocate and missed the last part of your long post until now.

twitter: @StoicTrader1 instagram: @StoicTrader1
 

Dude, I never act like I know everything. And I acknowledge the fact that I know very little. I was just stating reasons why I feel confident I am a good entry level candidate. These are all reasons I use when asked why me and why am I a good candidate for this role which got me the job in the first place and will get me another one if I don't stay here.

twitter: @StoicTrader1 instagram: @StoicTrader1
 

"But bottom line is is that I am better equipped for S&T than any undergrad"

"Nobody recruits there because if they did I would have beaten out every single student that was in my class"

"I have been following the market religiously since 2008 (when I made my first investment and was 19) and have way more knowledge than any regular undergrad would have"

" I did however trade on my own throughout undergrad, and follow the market daily so I am very comfortable with the market and understanding everything..."

Your previous post says otherwise.

 

Whenever I am asked that question, I crush it every time. I know the difference between confidence and arrogance and stay on the right side of that line. A lot of the stuff I have written in this thread I would never say out loud and only think to myself because I am extremely competitive and always want to be better than everybody else. Since this is an anonymous forum I put the thoughts that go through my head on here without thinking twice but these thoughts I have do not spill over to the outside it just helps me keep my drive and separate myself from peers.

I guarantee if I got into a room with anybody that has participated in this thread we would have great conversations and get along fine. I am very humble like I mentioned and have great sales / relationship management skills. If we were in person, you would see my confidence and understand there is no arrogance to it. My closest and only friend in undergrad (I am very picky with who I surround myself with and have a family so didn't hang out on campus) has the same mindset as me and is also at the top of his class (junior). I think the competitive and confident mindsets we have has worked very well for us as he will probably end up at an investment bank as well doing M&A.

twitter: @StoicTrader1 instagram: @StoicTrader1
 

Still, you put all this stuff in this thread saying how great you are despite no experience. If you wouldn't say it out loud why are you writing it?

That said, it's also possible this is the guy's twisted way of trying to motivate you. My old boss was super demanding/somewhat mean but when review time came he was very glowing, people told me that he spoke very highly of me. I thought I was doing horribly at the time.

 

Also, one last thing and update. I think the way I carry myself has worked well to this point. Like I said before I am the only student ever from my school to go to an investment bank right from undergrad. Also, I was the top student in my class. These are facts and things I use to sell myself to every employer.

Today, I was informed that the firm I am working for wants me to stay. I appreciate everybody's time and responses.

twitter: @StoicTrader1 instagram: @StoicTrader1
 

Qui eos id recusandae optio reprehenderit facilis architecto rerum. Temporibus eos inventore doloribus dolores sint molestiae ab.

Dolorum beatae exercitationem molestiae doloremque consequatur. Ipsam nihil voluptatum voluptatum eum qui voluptatem id. Aut molestias aut aut nesciunt consequuntur velit pariatur vel. Sint ea fuga fugiat quia est esse voluptas.

Veritatis et facilis et ratione dolorem. Molestiae et rem eaque voluptatem velit doloribus.

Career Advancement Opportunities

March 2024 Investment Banking

  • Jefferies & Company 02 99.4%
  • Goldman Sachs 19 98.8%
  • Harris Williams & Co. (++) 98.3%
  • Lazard Freres 02 97.7%
  • JPMorgan Chase 03 97.1%

Overall Employee Satisfaction

March 2024 Investment Banking

  • Harris Williams & Co. 18 99.4%
  • JPMorgan Chase 10 98.8%
  • Lazard Freres 05 98.3%
  • Morgan Stanley 07 97.7%
  • William Blair 03 97.1%

Professional Growth Opportunities

March 2024 Investment Banking

  • Lazard Freres 01 99.4%
  • Jefferies & Company 02 98.8%
  • Goldman Sachs 17 98.3%
  • Moelis & Company 07 97.7%
  • JPMorgan Chase 05 97.1%

Total Avg Compensation

March 2024 Investment Banking

  • Director/MD (5) $648
  • Vice President (19) $385
  • Associates (86) $261
  • 3rd+ Year Analyst (13) $181
  • Intern/Summer Associate (33) $170
  • 2nd Year Analyst (66) $168
  • 1st Year Analyst (202) $159
  • Intern/Summer Analyst (144) $101
notes
16 IB Interviews Notes

“... there’s no excuse to not take advantage of the resources out there available to you. Best value for your $ are the...”

Leaderboard

1
redever's picture
redever
99.2
2
Secyh62's picture
Secyh62
99.0
3
Betsy Massar's picture
Betsy Massar
99.0
4
BankonBanking's picture
BankonBanking
99.0
5
kanon's picture
kanon
98.9
6
CompBanker's picture
CompBanker
98.9
7
dosk17's picture
dosk17
98.9
8
DrApeman's picture
DrApeman
98.9
9
GameTheory's picture
GameTheory
98.9
10
bolo up's picture
bolo up
98.8
success
From 10 rejections to 1 dream investment banking internship

“... I believe it was the single biggest reason why I ended up with an offer...”