lazard vs. goldman sachs (investment banking)
how comparable are the two firms for PE exit opportunities / deal experience? is an average group at GS measurably better vs. an average group at LAZ or are they pretty comparable? anyone with any experiences with the two that can provide a good comparison point would be great.
I heard Lazard has sick exits, I'd say better than average group at GS, since headhunters tend to favor the top groups when at GS
agreed I think exit opps are extremly good on both ends. LAZ M&A groups and Restructuring get lots of love from headhunters as do GS TMT, FIG or some of their other strong groups. Deal experience wise it should be comparable at least from the type of deals (size, media coverage, complexity) depending on the year the group is having. Some say you may have more responsibility at LAZ so that might factor positively into deal experience. Overall you should have good PE opps at either, even if you are at an average group at GS if you are a strong analyst there should be nothing holding you back from getting interviews at top shops.
What I've heard: GS TMT > Lazard > GS
Thanks guys, anyone know what the good groups at Lazard and Goldman are? (Outside Lazard restructuring or GS TMT/FIG)?
LAZ = Life Sciences, FIG (These guys just do insane deals if you look at the business Gary Parr has brought inn), TMT in London GS = Industrials is strong, Health Care in London has good exit opps, Levfin also places good in London even though they are not that modeling focused
Oh, it seems that there is no TMT team in London. As far as I know, all TMT deals in Europe are mostly done by Paris office (European headquarter)
Thanks GBB. What are your thoughts on Lazard industrials, TMT, or power and energy, or GS Healthcare or NatRes? Thanks!
GS HC is a top group...
Yes as said GS HC is one of the strong groups there (high deal flow, most of the HC mega deals in the past) and I have seen people from there go to KKR for example and I am sure they have people at other megafunds as well. I dont know too much about GS NatRes so maybe somebody else can comment on it. LAZ TMT seems to be top notch group in the UK and they seem to have good deal flow (and again its LAZ so exits opps = great), which also holds true for their other groups. Industrials and the energy practice I am not sure.
This kind of debates are quite funny for me. Maybe it's because I am European.. but I mean. In my school, if you had both offers. it would be a no brainer. --> Go GS
The guys that go for boutiques are either for personal reasons or because they didnt managed to land a BB (most of the cases). / Still talking about the people at my school
And in Europe, nobody cares about the team you join... I mean at GS unless you are in ECM Nordik being Spanish which would be kinda of odd, joining TMT, HC, Consumer or Industrials wont make a big difference in exit opps...
They only care about FIG in the sense that you are pretty much fucked if you want to join a PE firm.
Makes sense - boutiques have less of a global presence that huge BB banks. In the US, it really is different though. Centerview Partners is like a 500th of the size of GS, but competes with it for many huge deals. If Centerview Partners can manage to generate 1/250th the revenue of GS with 1/500th the employees, I'd say I'd rather be working at Centerview (given they have the strong name that goes with it, which they do in the US banking world)
Well I disagree, people that have not worked in banking might not give a crap about the teams because they dont know. PE headhunters and people in the industry very well know the teams and what they stand for and what deal flow they have. And while at your school it might be the case that everybody would go straight for GS there are people that would go for an M&A team at a boutique over some financing ibd or country coverage at GS. And from what I know people at places like EVR/GHL/PWP often had multiple BB offers as well and chose them for good reasons (I am talking about London). Also it should be noted that people in general might be less obsessed with exit opps in Europe so in the beginning they might think that all the teams are the same. But in the end still most of the same groups as in the US are the main feeders into PE (GS TMT, MS M&C, GS FIG, CS FSG, LAZ M&A (overall), just to name a few)
For a having worked in one of the FIG group that you mentioned (GS/JP/MS) I can tell you that analysts are not happy with their exits opps.
Kea Consultants contacted me during my summer for analyst opportunities in PE. They clearly said to me that FIG analysts are not usually invited to itw because they dont do LBO models. Again some might be called but in general they said that FIG was the last group of the list.
I did two internships in IBD in London, did not got to choose the teams that I joined. My final round was with guys from Consumer, FIG and TMT. I interned in Consumer, FiG and TMT...
Not going to GS because it's the financing group or ECM is clearly understandable.
Frankly, judging that an analyst at GS or MS after 1 and half year is better because he went to group X instead of Y is BS.
At these banks, all groups have a tone of deal flow. Don't you think that it is better to be in Industrials/NatRess/Consumer and do 3 LBOs over your first year rather than being in GS TMT / MS and merge IT companies?
The Headhunter example is from my experience. Might be different elsewhere. but when you do a quick look at PE shops in Europe where they disclose associates past experiences, you rarely see people from FIG.
Also you are not fucked if you join a FIG team. I have seen people from FIG teams (MS/GS//JPM) in London get interviews at megafunds.
Anyhow the OP is probably from the US so no need to argue about Europe in this thread.
Yeah I know the headhunters you mentioned and I agree while usually FIG is not optimal there are people from FIG groups that get interviews with megafunds (at least the people I knew at MS/GS got interviews for PE firms). LAZ M&A as a main feeder might be overly optimistic also true I was just making my point that groups do matter also in Europe and if you look at people who work at BX, KKR or Carlyle many come from the traditional groups. Also agreing on the fact that doing 3 LBO's makes more sense for PE than 3 mergers. However how many buyouts are there in tech or telecoms vs. natres for example. I am sure that coming from tmt for example is much more marketable to funds than being in natres just given the broader exposure and technical focus.
Whatever, Im just saying that some groups might be favorable to join PE firms vs. others and that it makes sense to ask the question the OP posted.
Thanks for the advice guys. I'm specifically asking about GS NY vs. Lazard NY - any advice on just comparing those 2 offices?
I think on this one you can go back to the third post: GS TMT, FIG > LAZ > Average GS group. But again it depends on you as a person and how you fit and ultimatively excel.
I've heard that if you work at Lazard, non TMT/FIG GS MDs will happily shine your shoes and suck you off...
Sorry to get back to CalmeSir, but he is right in regards to FIG groups and PE from my general understanding of talking with headhunters...of course there will always be exceptions.
"The guys that go for boutiques are either for personal reasons or because they didnt managed to land a BB (most of the cases). / Still talking about the people at my school"
That is totally false and I don't know what school that is having worked with people from all the top UK ones (OxBridge, LSE, Imperial, UCL, etc.) People take Rothschild/Lazard/Greenhill over many BB. When we get into the GS/MS/JPM league I think probability is in favor with these 3 BB firms, but its not something that is outrageously obvious.
In terms of NYC I think the above sentiments are correct, maybe try to leverage your offers for MS M&A if possible they have, from what I have seen and heard, comparable exits to GS top groups. Congrats on these offers (I assume) that's very well done.
Please dont say that my post is "totally false" I am just explaining what's happening at my school and that Lazard over GS is just for me (and my classmates) absurd.
you and your classmates may be out of touch with industry perceptions....it's like some kid at my school who couldn't comprehend why people would take Centerview over a BB like UBS
but maybe it's just different in Europe
CallmeSir is absolutely right. You gotta be fackin insane to choose a boutique, particularly one like Centerview/Greenhill over any BB if you want to do PE - I'm talkin strictly EUROPE. In the US yeah, definitely some boutiques are as good as MS/GS. But in London you have got no chance whatsoever to do PE coming from a boutique. And please dont give me the " I know a friend of a friend of a friend". There might be 1 or 2 lucky fuckers each year that get PE positions coming out of boutiques, out of say 60-70 recruited each year, but thats it. It's not happening-simple as that. London and Europe in general is very very different from US, in terms of PE Recruiting. 1. Boutiques, even Lazard, dont mean shit in London 2.PE firms dont recruit 1 year in advance like in NY and some recruit from Analyst 3 and above. As for specific groups, very rarely have I seen a FIG guy. At GS London, Healthcare is by far the best group, at MS London, contrary to the NY MS M&A hype, the best groups are Technology (best tech group in London by dealflow), Media and Comms (the most targeted group by PE firms). And of course this is very simple to verify by browsing the profiles of different PE firms.
" in London you have got no chance whatsoever to do PE coming from a boutique ".
Dont talk out of your ass bro.
People from Lazard London are at the following buyside shops plus a few others I am sure: The Carlyle Group, CVC, Apax, 3i, Cinven, Warburg Pincus, TPG Capital, Bain - Sankaty (all in Europe).
There are also people from Greenhill and Moelis and Evercore at buyside firms such as SLP or some of the above, so saying that boutiques in London don’t mean shit is wrong. That’s it, though I agree that BBs might be the better choice for many young cats to start their career (I don’t work at any of the above named boutiques but just trying to oppose some opinions on here that don’t seem to be accurate). Dont discourage some kids on here and tell them something thats not true.
No more comments from my side on this one but inform yourself before you make bold statements.
point me to their profiles and then we'll talk. only guy that I managed to find is at TPG and he came from lazard but he started at JP. is that it???????????????
callmesir must be very insecure over your citi offer I guess
I m so insecure about my citi offer!!!
...
Sorry but Lazard > Citi in general. Everyone knows this...
And this is coming from someone who is very likely to go to Citi to be an SA this summer.
Lazard IB or Goldman BDPG (Originally Posted: 01/06/2012)
I have offers from Lazard IB and Goldman's Bank Debt Portfolio Group. Seeing as though I was targeting IB, is Goldman's name enough to top Lazard's IB SA program? I also do not know much about the BDPG at GS, any further information on the group would be much appreciated. Thanks.
Absolutely not. I'd go as far as saying that Lazard IB is more sought than Goldman IB.
Lazard IBD is top ten...do a year there and transfer to GS if you really want. If you want to do portfolio work, then do GS. JOB DESCRIPTION overrules BRAND NAME in most instances.
Lazard 100%. Agree with both above. Very well respected firm and you would get a great summer of experience
Go with Lazard, unless you're interested in commercial banking. However, it is an internship, so you should really go with the one that'll give you more options (Lazard).
Under my understanding, following the repeal of Glass Steagall, standard commercial lending relationships became a necessary but insufficient condition to win investment banking business. I think GS BDPG is just this arm of the bank, which loans to companies but then sells the loans off to other banks/investors who wish to hold it on their balance sheets, as GS does not.
I have a question, I thought recruiting season for GS's NY firm hasn't started yet. Do banks have different timelines for different schools?
Lazard vs. Goldman? (Originally Posted: 07/24/2007)
Just bored right now and thought I'd throw this out there. Goldman obviously has an overall awareness-of edge in the general population. However, Lazard has that exotic name going for it. Thoughts?
.........
im bored like I said. I just wanted to hear people's opinions of both firms vis-a-vis each other.
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