Legit Chill and Easy Jobs in CRE
Like many of you I thought I wanted a challenging and stimulating job, crushing it in the office and not mind working long hours, closing deals, making a fuck ton of money etc. But reality crept in quick that that's not who I am. I just want a job that I can typically leave at the office and not have to think about it at night and stress about it. I still love real estate and finance and it's what I want to do for a living, but I honestly just want something chill, easy/repetitive, and has upside to pay decently (I don't need to make millions). I'm currently in MF underwriting and that's probably pretty easy and laidback to some but it's definitely higher stress at the VP/Underwriter level than I think I want to take on. I'm thinking appraisal or asset management might be more my jam. Anyone follow a relatable path have any guidance? I'm aware I'm in the minority here as most ppl on this forum are after the prestige and dreams of ultra high NW. Thanks
Asset Management at a core asset shop (during the good times) Brokerage (during the bad times)
Edit: Also any Life Insurance Company job especially within a small closed shop. You wouldn't have to fight too hard to push deals through credit. 100% of deal flow comes through brokers who also handle servicing and the deals are all straight forward, safe and low leverage. Once you have put out the entire bucket, you can effectively close your doors and take month long vacations. Plus if you had a destination in mind to travel to, you could get your firm to pay for a flight and a hotel for a few days and have the mortgage bankers take you out golfing, fishing, hunting, boating or to whatever nice restaurant that you desired to visit.
@ OP - I concur with @CRESEA"
Would be a pretty natural shift for you, and has a very wide range of potential employers. Obviously recession resistant. Also very useful if you were to partner with someone and manage your own properties later. I have a number of clients who do this as they've "semi-retired". Sometimes there's travel involved, which may not fit what you're looking for.
if you want an easy life and decent pay work in appraisal
Any input on the appraisal life? If that's what you do
From what I observed in CRE appraisal, its smooth sailing at the senior level. Once you learn the fundamentals you'll be able to crank out reports without much stress. Appraisal also allows you to be your own boss essentially. No one looking over your shoulder, commuting to an office isn't necessary...just be accurate in your valuation and you'll be cashing in.
Debt asset management at Freddie or Fannie or any seller servicer
Any input on the day to day and/or comp? I'm actually at a seller servicer rn and the AM people seem to have it really chill
Day to day probably looking over financial statements of the assets in the portfolio and doing some reporting to the master servicer, maybe some communication with the borrowers too. Can't really think of much else but it seems chill and comp would be around $80-90k range for an asset manager. Analyst probably $60-70k, can't really speak to it but that's what I'd assume
This is an interesting post, not the standard for WSO for sure. Honestly, I think a lot of people will wish they had taken a more 'chill' path, whether it really means loss of income/wealth over the long term is much harder to say. So a few observations...
A lot of the 'kill your self' jobs do produce 'high incomes' from time to time, they also involve higher risk of strike out/fail out (i.e. watch what happens to many high income people this year)
There is a trade off on expertise and effort, meaning, the more your expertise is valued, the less effort required. Appraisers (and lawyers) understand this, still an appraiser can work 'harder' and do more reports in same time, thus not really 'free' of the rat race, but have clearer path in decision making. The broker/I-banker/deal person doesn't have that luxury as they can't really know which pursuits will payoff or not, so they have to go 100% all the time.
To the point of 'expertise', if you really want to minimize the effort/earnings trade-off (with some decent earnings), you need to maximize your effective 'hourly rate'. Consultants, lawyers, accountants, and appraisers all get this. Check out what appraisers who do expert witness work make, easily $300 to $500 per hour or more. The trick is the highest hourly rate, not the most hours, that is naturally limited.
Here comes the catch, getting the highest hourly rate takes time, experience, training, and sometimes advanced certifications and degrees (i.e. big up front investments, for big payoff later). These hours could be 'stressful', but so could working at Wal-Mart, stress is personal, I think you can find any job stressful or un-stressful by your own attitude.
You are posting as a '1 year analyst', this time period just generally sucks regardless of profession, firm, or track you are on. It gets more 'chill' the longer you work, true for appraisers, asset managers, i-bankers, brokers, chefs, or whatever.
All that said, I have personally noticed that working in more traditional 'corporate' roles can be less time consuming due to more resources, bigger teams, and narrower roles. Doing asset mgnt for a big owner of CRE would probably fit this bill, you get in at 8:30 pack up bags by 5:30 most days. Same for corp accounting, etc. Is the day stressful? eh, depends on the firm, boss, etc. You could get laid off (really no different, but appraisers have less risk as self employed generally), but again its just different risk/return trade off.
That's it, good discussion. Good luck!
the catch... there is always an f'ing catch... and this response says everything you need to know. I love this post, and it's something I (and most sane young ppl) consider regularly. The reality is that no principal shop is going to hire you for a cushy leasing/AM job without proving yourself first. (fam connections diff story)
In NYC at least, most of these positions are held by senior citizens (in the context of WSO, 45+) and I expect that many have some skin the game as well. That being said, there are plenty of options to make a comfortable living in CRE without losing sleep and worrying about your next deal. I know of a few recent grad prop mgmt assistants at REITS making great money with a lot of runway and opportunity. Look around.
Awesome input, agree with everything. Thanks for this
Should add, a favorite book of mine really addresses this well...
Millionaire Mind by Thomas Stanley (only book of his that is worthwhile)
I talks about the careers that actually made people wealthy. A lot of specialization and finding unique niches, I think you may really appreciate it!
Have you thought about doing agency underwriting at a mid tier/low level shop? You're not going to be working on too many deals at one time and you should conceivably have a good shot at landing the job.
Yeah definitely, or just a regional bank or something working in credit. Idk exactly how my shop ranks against the other agency lenders but I would think it's mid-top tier, so a lower-tier shop could be less workload.
Follow up - what firms would you consider to be mid/low tier? I'm pretty new still so curious what you think, and if my shop is on the list haha
1) Gov pension RE jobs 2) Chill pension/endowment/foundation jobs 3) Chill family offices
I would say most real estate jobs are chill, even on the equity side. If they’re not, they usually say “we work pretty hard around here” or similar during the interview.
I’ve even heard from people at multi billion dollar funds that asset management has solid work life balance especially after you’ve completed your analyst / associate years
hey, this is a cool post. could you tell us a little bit about your path to the MF Underwriting position? also, are you in NYC?
Nothing crazy just networking. Cold emails, LinkedIn messages, etc.
out of undergrad? or post MBA?
I was in the same position you were a while back. Joined an investment company out of grad school focusing on mostly LP investments in Acquisitions and asset management. I would look into life companies, lending at a commercial bank, proptech(if you also like tech), or property management. Appraisal companies work you hard for barely anything so I'd try to avoid that.
Worked for 2 life cos in my career and both offered great work life balance, pay and benefits. 8:00-5 work days and never took work home with me. CML/equity origination requires travel but the AM/servicing side is easy
How is debt origination? Any idea how it compares to a bank in terms of work life balance/pay, what type of debt do you originate senior, mezz, construction/stabilized etc??
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