Metals trading street cred
Hi,
I'm in the process of applying to several firms who physically trade metal. I can't perfectly explain why but during an internship at one of the Wall St. biggies I really liked commodities derivatives most, and found products based on industrial metals especially interesting.
In the securities space there is a clear hierarchy of firms, probably with Goldman at the top followed by JP Morgan. I'm wondering how industry insiders would rank the physical firms, e.g. is there a reputational difference between working at Trafigura and Glencore?
How centralized are these firms? If I'm accepting an offer in some remote office (Traf for example has an office in Peru) would this mean starting my career from a dead end or is it actually a plus to be closer to some mine?
Cheers!
honestly, I can tell right now that you are going to apply to trafi with almost zero true interest in the business. if that is the case, don't apply. they will be able to smell your lack of sincerity in an interview in a second. at glencore and trafigura, taking an offer in peru is still cream of the crop and will set you up for a world of opportunities in this type of business -- especially since it's clear you are applying to the graduate programme. if you don't already know that much about these firms, then again, don't apply! You are diluting the candidate pool.
They want people who are willing to move anywhere in the world, INDEFINITELY. If you consider your move to shanghai for trafi to be a temporary stint in your metal career before you end up transferring back to your sheltered firm in NYC near your parents, don't apply.
Your post infuriates me. I can clearly see your complete lack of sincere interest in the business. They will realize all of this sooner or later -- so just stop while you're ahead.
I think you clearly need to get laid.
lol man if that's all you have to say about yourself you're only reinforcing what I said above
when they send you your rejection e-mail, you should reply to them and let them know they need to get laid too -- they'll like that for sure
You're weirdly bitter.
Hi GoodBread,
I'm not sure what you mean when you say you were under the impression I am applying to Trafi in Houston. Can you explain what you mean there?
In regards to hiring decision -- I think you are totally right with our past generation. I don't think many kids are "stumbling" into investment banking in this generation. You need to go into the interview and be able to sincerely prove why you love banking. Maybe in the 70s you could get away with that, but I really don't think you can in today's world.
Why don't I rephrase this into a question. Would you want to hire somebody who is both interested in your industry and your firm -- and brings loyalty? Or would you want to hire somebody who just found out who you were yesterday after being rejected from all the BBs and heard that there is a lot of $ to be made also in physical commodities? I know that I would pick the 1st guy. Obviously assuming that they are equally talented.
BTW, loyalty is one of the most important traits of these physical traders.
You're a tool.
How does it make me illoyal if I ask about the standing of these firms in the industry? Of course I know that Trafigura and Glencore and all the others are great companies, but I was simply wondering how their reputation is within the industry. I think that's a legitimate, smart, question. And yes: I did not plan to work at Glencore since 10 years, and maybe you did. But it seems it didn't help you too much either?
I have to sincerely question whether you are in this business as loyalty to a firm is not important to any trader that I have met who is good at making money (or being a sell-side dealer for that matter). I am sure you will come up with some response that makes you look like you just stuck a needle full of deca-durabolin into your butt cheeks, but that doesn't change the fact that your answers in this thread have been nothing short of spreading garbage.
Of all the best money managers out there, the number of them that started their careers in trading physical goods is a small percentage of those who are in the group as a whole. The simple reason being that learning the details of trading physical commodities and learning how to manage money are not always the same skill set.
As has been mentioned before (by me) petecarrollforprez is stupid. (Also see above.) However he's right in the sense that a lot of people are proud of their firms and strongly identify with them. E.g. a JP Morgan guy will usually love JP and the Goldman guys tend to love Goldman. Probably a Traf guy is real proud of being at Traf not Glencore and so on...
Of course firms would prefer to hire people with a legitimate interest in their field. But let's be real for a second here. No one interviewing for an analyst position in IBD can ever prove they "sincerely love banking." Why? Because no one sincerely loves banking. There are a couple weirdos every year who love spreading comps and formatting pitch books but there is an ulterior motive for almost everyone and that is hardly ever staying at the same bank until you make MD.
I'm not sure where you're getting all this "loyalty" stuff from but the era of staying at the same firm your whole life is basically dead, even in commodities. Trafigura was started by guys who jumped ship from Marc Rich, who left Phibro in his day. Those were some bitter moments but those guys would probably never have been as successful if they hadn't left. Vitol poaches its traders from the majors and Trafi can be very quick to fire under performers. It sounds to me like you need to stop drinking your own kool-aid. These are businesses, not families.
Metals trading shops (Originally Posted: 01/20/2011)
Anyone able to offer insight as to who the biggest players are in the metals industry (Preferably with groups located in the US)?
Look into Trafigura
Monex and Blanchard for the physical precious metals.
Vitol does some non-ferrous.
Louis Dreyfus and Trafigura are probably the two biggest names.
Vitol is primarily an oil products firm and Louis is strong in grains and cotton. The biggest in metals in the US are Glencore and Trafigura followed by -in no particular order- JBC, Gerald, Kock, FC Stone, and all the BB's w/ physical opps (Barclays, Glencore and JP). The banks tend to be limited in what they do and mostly stick to paper brokerage on behalf of bonefied hedgers and financing contango deals (specially in alumium).
Vitol is primarily an oil products firm and Louis is strong in grains and cotton. The biggest in metals in the US are Glencore and Trafigura followed by -in no particular order- JBC, Gerald, Kock, FC Stone, and all the BB's w/ physical opps (Barclays, Glencore and JP). The banks tend to be limited in what they do and mostly stick to paper brokerage on behalf of bonefied hedgers and financing contango deals (specially in alumium).
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