MFE: UCB vs Columbia vs CMU vs NYU – I’d love to hear opinions

I am new to this forum so I apologize if I break any rule. I know this isn’t B-school, but please indulge me. I am making my decision on where to go the get a MFE. I know there are is a quant specific forum elsewhere, but it is terribly slow and frankly I think people here are more experienced/mature (and there are more Americans).

In summary: I am trying to decide between Berkeley, Columbia, NYU and CMU (not in yet, but maybe).

I am weighting on many factors, but I would like to know if any of you can tell me specifically about the “reputation on the street” (regarding the programs in particular or the schools in general) since it is something hard to find out on my own.

Presently I am slightly more inclined for Columbia or Berkeley, but they are all awesome programs. It is a VERY difficult choice, and if I get into CMU it's going to get more so; but I know that there are worse problems to have.


Details:

I am an international math major with some finance courses, 2 year experience in data analysis and a little bit of data science/text mining. Proficient in Python, some matlab, some c++. My goal is to work in quant trading, algo trading, or S&T in general at a BB, prop trading or HF. NOT DEVELOPER. But ultimately, I just like math, finance and programming so any role that lets me apply this set of skills is welcomed (though I don’t like risk management much).
However, I wouldn’t mind more “traditional” finance (less quant) roles later in my career. As far as job location, I really prefer NYC but I am open to West Coast or Chicago (or London if H1B visas get screwed).

I have been admitted at Columbia: MS Financial engineering, Berkeley-Haas: MFE, NYU-Courant: Mathematics in finance and waiting to hear form CMU:MS Computational finance. Cost-wise they are all very similar, ~100k-120k. I obviously need to get a nice job after graduation, because I need to pay the debt, but I am also concerned with long term opportunities.

As far as I can tell, these are the pros and cons. I would love to hear your opinions expanding (or refuting) this list.

UCB

(+) The best placement of all, period. 100% internship and full time job placement. The staff is very committed and just plain nice. The exec. director is an awesome person. (Some interesting stories about the “Linda factor”, can be found in this forum).
(+) Built-in internship. I mean literally built-in. They heavily help(push) you to get one.

(+/-) The calendar is a bit weird. The program goes from March to March. On one hand less competition for internships (since they are in November), but I don’t know if this plays against you trying to get a FT position in march if you don’t get called back from the internship.
(+/-) One-year program. You get out to the market sooner, but I don’t know if this is a little at the expense of learning more interesting stuff.

(-) Far from NYC. Though they place around 30% in NY tri-state area.
(-) Curriculum seems a bit, I don’t know, dry? Or maybe the course descriptions don’t make them justice. It could use a dedicated math/opti/machine learning course.

Columbia

(+) Flexible curriculum and a bit more academic.
(+) NYC. Maybe more networking.
(+) Emanuel Derman, Kani.
(+) Best brand name. But a couple of notes for this:

After familiarizing myself with the slang of this forum, I’ve come to the conclusion that I might be a little “prestige whore(ish)” after all. People in the US have most likely never heard of my school, so I do feel I need to compensate for this.
However, I think that outside of the US Berkeley and Columbia are not too distant in prestige. But, from what I’ve read people in the the country shun UCB a little because it is a public school. This seems to be particularly pronounced (ironically enough) in California. I don’t know how people in Europe, and London in particular, see it.

Personally, I don’t care AT ALL for the “bragging rights” (if any) but rather for the long term opportunities and alumni network. (I tend to think that Finance is highly meritocratic, but who knows.)

(-) Some alumni/students complain that the career services are less than stellar. But they all seem to do fine anyway.
(-) Large class size.
(-) The technical courses seem pretty good, but there are no “pure finance” courses in the IOER department. You can take electives from different department though.

NYU

(+) Small class size.
(+) Great math department. 1st in the country in applied math.
(+) Many professors are practitioners from the industry so it might help with recruitment and I bet they have loads of interesting war stories.

(-) The don’t publish placement stats, so no idea how they fare there.
(-) It seems difficult to live at walking distance from the school and the campus seems a little disjointed.
(-) Maybe a little less brand than UCB, Columbia? I don’t know much about this.

CMU

(+) Awesome curriculum (probably the best). Well rounded but also lots of programming and math (which I enjoy).
(+) Good career services, but not superb from what I have heard (sort of in-between UCB and Columbia I suppose).
(+) Steven Shreve

(-) The most expensive (but not by much).
(-) Pittsburgh may be closer to NYC, but still a bit far, and SF at least pull its own weight in terms of opportunities.
(-) Large(est) class size.
(-) Maybe a little less brand than UCB, Columbia? I don’t know much about this.


Any opinion is welcomed. Thank you in advance.

 

IlliniProgrammer I've seen that you've help others with similar questions. I'd really appreciate your opinion. Naturally, I don't expect you to tell me "where to go", but I'd love to hear your opinion since I know you are very well informed. Thank you.

 

Sample size is small and outside NYC, but I see more Berkeley MFEs and CMU MSCFs than Columbia MSFEs on the buyside. It may be that all of the Columbians go to DE Shaw and other NYC shops. I also don't know of any NYU MFEs on the buyside first hand, but I know of several second-hand and worked with many NYU MFEs during my time on the sellside.

Pros of Columbia: -Wall Street interviews are a 15 minute train ride -Dumb money knows you're smart (that will not be as true with the other schools) -Generally I've found that Columbians know their stuff on stochal. That's good for the sellside.

Pros of Berkeley: -Weather -Linda Kreitzmann (this lady is a force of nature for landing people interviews and jobs) -Buyside placements -Berkeley tech scene gives you options for "data science" if bottom falls out of finance

Pros of CMU: -Highest ranked MFE program (per quantnet.com) -Excellent buyside placements. -Three semesters (save money, get a job sooner)

NYU: Similar to Columbia. Columbians would argue they have prestige, NYUers would argue they have a healthier and happier campus culture, IMO. I'm not sure if either of these are correct, but they are both good NYC schools, and NYU's MFE and mathematics reputation is really on par with Columbia, even with some of the dumber money, at least in NYC.

UIUC, or if you don't get in there, Princeton: Best damn school in the country (UIUC); second-best school in the country (Princeton). Dude, just go there and get a rusty honda to drive around in while making crazy nonsequitur comments about people spending too much money.

Look, it's two years. And it's a tough call. But it's a high quality decision-- you can't go wrong. Check out all of the campuses you've been admitted and make a decision.

 

Thank you man. I really appreciate it.

I agree with you points on Berkeley. However the placement thing is tricky. They deliberately choose more experienced students (16% already have PhD) so it's hard to say whether they got better placement (and in better jobs) because of the program or because they could have get it without the program. Or maybe even because Linda got them the job (totally believable, the woman is amazing). I only have BSc, so I don't know how would I fare there. But I tend to think that Linda wouldn't have given admission to someone she didn't think she could place though, so I'm comfortable in that.

Why do you think Columbia places more people on the sell side?

 
gaius.marius:

Thank you man. I really appreciate it.

I agree with you points on Berkeley. However the placement thing is tricky. They deliberately choose more experienced students (16% already have PhD) so it's hard to say whether they got better placement (and in better jobs) because of the program or because they could have get it without the program. Or maybe even because Linda got them the job (totally believable, the woman is amazing).
I only have BSc, so I don't know how would I fare there. But I tend to think that Linda wouldn't have given admission to someone she didn't think she could place though, so I'm comfortable in that.

Why do you think Columbia places more people on the sell side?

Proximity. Stochal (really just works best for exotics and market making of complex products).

Remember, the sellside is in NYC. The buyside is in NYC a bit, but also CT, Long Island/Hudson River Valley, NJ, PA, Chicago, and CA.

If you're coming in straight out of undergrad, this tilts things a bit more towards Columbia because they have a relative advantage for the sellside. I'm not sure if it's an absolute advantage-- I have heard stories about Linda running all over midtown with a stack of resumes, going up to security desks, calling up alumni, shoving those resumes in their faces and saying "You are going to interview this guy". But Columbia certainly has the relative advantage over Berkeley when it comes to getting on the 123 line and riding 5 stops to get to an interview vs. flying 2300 miles.

 

Thanks a lot for the input. Sorry to bother you again, but it turns out I did got into CMU. Personally I like their curriculum a lot and I know they were the pioneer program of this kind. Plus, Pittsburgh is a good deal more affordable than the other cities. However the placement numbers seem a bit slacking compared to the other programs. They also seem to take students with a lot less experience compared with Berkeley. I wonder if you can tell me your opinion of this program and its general reputation on the street, besides what you outlined in your first post. Thanks again.

 

dude I think you should be pretty grateful that he gave you the complete shit on how to decide. if I was you, I would have been a bit ashamed that I didn't get as much as IllniProgrammer did. Now it sounds like you want to do CMU for the worthless fluff, but just ask yourself, what are your prioritizing for? Saving a couple of bucks in Pitt when others are closer to the jobs? Nobody wants to spend extra, I get it, but think when is it POSSIBLE for you, and when is it WISE to do so.

 
Best Response
gaius.marius:

Thanks a lot for the input. Sorry to bother you again, but it turns out I did got into CMU. Personally I like their curriculum a lot and I know they were the pioneer program of this kind. Plus, Pittsburgh is a good deal more affordable than the other cities.
However the placement numbers seem a bit slacking compared to the other programs. They also seem to take students with a lot less experience compared with Berkeley. I wonder if you can tell me your opinion of this program and its general reputation on the street, besides what you outlined in your first post. Thanks again.

I can't speak to CMU's placement numbers.

They do have an excellent program. Almost always ranked #1 by Quantnet. Reputation depends. Dumb money in IBD thinks CMU is on par with Vanderbilt-- smart money (EG quants) knows the MFE program is more like an MIT.

From where I sit, they get strong buyside placements. Our stat arb team has hired three CMU MFE's in the past three years. Also, the three semester program is an advantage. For an experienced hire who knows he can get a job, the biggest cost of the degree isn't the tuition-- it's the opportunity cost of being in school for an extra semester.

That said, if you want dumb money to know you're smart, choose Columbia. If you will settle for just NYC's dumb money knowing you're smart, choose NYU. And of course, smart people all already know you're smart (though some smart people in FO roles will tell you they also have to sell you and your background to dumb people)

I honestly think you're obsessing at this point. There's no correct answer on this; the expected outcomes are on a par. Visit both campuses, talk to students at each school, and make a decision. I empathize with the difficulty of this decision, but I'm not going to make it for you. I've given you all of the information I have, and I'm not even sure all of it is correct. I don't think you're going to get anything more out of me spending more time on this, and my time is now more expensive and more precious than it was before I did my MFE. Yours' will be too, regardless of where you go.

Stop obsessing, make a decision, and commit to it. Then stop worrying if you made the right choice and start earning more money.

 

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