Classical musicians in IBD
Dear fellow primates, I have been lurking at this forum for quite some time already and I want to express my thanks to all your posts that have given me so much valuable information about everything related to careers in finance. I have been making searches on the particular subject but didn't find any matching posts so I finally decided to start a thread of my own.
My stats:
24 years old european
Master of Music (equivalent to first class honors) from quite famous european music university
CFA Level 2 candidate
Starting UK top target MFE/MFIN in 2017
My story:
I Have been playing a particular classical music instrument from when I was 4 years old and I have been playing professionally since my early childhood (that means getting paid for it). Currently I am playing full time at a quite famous european opera house for the season 16/17. Following this career path for the rest of my life doesn't interest me. Through a contact I was able to secure a Summer Analyst placement at a tiny Mayfair M&A Investment Bank in summer 2017. I think it has more business in the US but only one MD in Europe. From what I have understood they specialize in tech startups from all over the world. Like indicated above, I will start studying at a top target MFE/MFIN in the UK in 2017 so I am aiming for SA placements in BB IBD in 2018.
Are there any fellow instrument playing monkeys on this forum that have brought their skills to a high level? It would be interesting to hear how you where perceived in applications for finance jobs, particularly BB IBD. Did you make it into a top firm? Did your classical music backroud help you perform better in your jobs. I would also be interested in hearing your take on how I should present my self in the best possible way in a SA interview. How should I talk to the interviewers about my earlier career so that they don't think of me as a failed musician (as this is clearly not the case!)? Do interviewers in IB understand how incredibly difficult it is to achieve what I did in classical music? Since my early childhood I have been hyper competitive so I am obviously aiming for the top banks (GS/MS/JPM) as well. Are these Tier 1 places mainly looking for 21-22yo guys fresh out of Oxbridge/LSE undergrad? Is there space for somebody like me who is a bit older but has something exceptional and completely different in his CV in addition to going to the same target schools.
I would love to hear your take on my situation and prospects. Please feel free to ask me anything!
If you play the skin flute, your skills may come in handy during interviews.
very interesting contrast, deMaestro have you seen this post? http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/life-after-investment-banking
thoughts?
is this a troll post or do people really have personalities like this?
JamesBonds: No I don't play the skin flute, but I know some people who do. I'm sure they could teach you to play it too if you so wish. There is an instrument for everyone out there!
AndyLouis: Yes I have read that post, but thanks for sharing it. Apparently IBD really wasn't for him!
buysidebandit: No this is not a troll. Please feel free to elaborate your question further!
You might also want to check some older posts of anonymousman
Judging from his posts this guy was genuinely frustrated at IBD from the get go. His personal life seems to have been a mess. 2 cheating girlfriends, 3 near death experiences and a gambling problem...
Although this post is kind of absurd (cause in my observation, most would kill to do the inverse move), I will try to help in any fashion I can.
Some questions you might want to ask: Do you enjoy staring at a computer and do boring meetings all week long? Do you enjoy crunching numbers on a spread sheet? Are you a good bullshitter on an industry you know shit about? Do you have some industries you would like to know? Do you want or would like to be well connected? Do you love making money above all else (family, friends, even ethics) ? Are you confortable spending a night reading a SPA/MoU or another shitty lawyer piece of paper?
Your music skill will, in no way whatsoever, transfer to the office. The fact that you are a go getter and achieved a nice place in musical career, can be spun to sell yourself as "high achiever". Other than that, it won't help a lot because in the end of the day, the office wants to know how you can help them make money and endure (slave) away as much as possible.
In my particular case, I've been playing guitar for more than 10 years, study music as much as I can on my (very little) spare time. I would trade places to be a touring guitarist in a heart beat. But thats just me.
Hope you know what your doing.
Thanks for your elaborated input MonkeySay, I suppose the grass is always greener on the other side. I could write at least twice as much than you did about all the numerous thinks that truly suck about being a professional musician. But IMO all of this is a question of attitude. I am very content with my achievements in music and want to move forward now.
I have some relatives and contacts who work in London in IBD and PE and they have made sure that I don't have any wrong ideas about what it's like. A lot of similarities exist between high finance and high end classical music. Throughout my whole life I've spent countless hours of making thousands of repetitions of boring phrases in order to get it perfect. It might look easy on stage, but don't even think that all of it is just making music and having fun while doing it.
Any skill or career you want to bring to a high level is going to be a lot of plain and boring work.
I understand the daily grind you mentioned, as I have spent countless hours playing my favorite solos, improvising a lot over those ii-V-i progretion, composing, learning new shit, ear training, etc. And to be honest, I love the grind. If you don't like it maybe it is wise to think of a career change. But please know what your getting into. Its a strong change of career and lifestyle. You're still young, you could probably do it.
Thank you for your reply. The point I wanted to make is, that any significant career will require that "grinding" you are talking about. Be it a concert pianist, IBD Analyst or professional golfer. I'm sure even Tiger Woods himself was incredibly frustrated at times! Rest assured, that your attitude towards "grinding" on your instrument would be completely different if it would be your only source of getting bread to the table. It becomes much more of a seroius matter. Then again this should go without saying.
But I think these frustrations should not be a part of my story. Be it the "real" version or the version i'm going to present to my interviewer. I'm certainly not going into finance because I don't like repetitive and grinding work as I'm sure that it will be even more repetitive there!
Interviewing for a job is always going to be storytelling. Presenting your backround in the most favourable light for that particular job. I am in the process of forming my story and I'm very thankful for all the feedback I have received already!
I also want to thank all the lovely people who have reached out to me by PM. I really appreciate you taking the time to advise me!
You sound Asian and socially-underdeveloped AF (this is coming from an Asian, so it's sorta not racist.)
If this isn't a troll post, which I'm hoping it's not because that makes this way funnier, I'd recommend that in interviews you don't try to make some dumb link about the awesome cognitive abilities you picked up playing at an opera house and how that's gonna help you build M&A models with synergies in perfect harmony. Instead, I'd focus on using music as a means of networking, which you seem to be doing already.
Doable? Yes. I few years backed I talked to a former musician at BAML....not sure if he's still there but it's an example.
Agree on the story being weak but what you're getting isn't how I'd spin it. What do musicians and bankers have in common? Great presentation skills.
OK...this example is currently worded terribly, but here's an idea. Something like "After working at [X bank] last summer, I realized how passionate I am for the work. Based on that experience I feel that I can leverage the financial skills I learned to pass the CFA level 1 with the presentation skills I learned as a musician to excel as an investment banker".
Hey @Attack_Chihuaha" !
I really appreciate your input and highlighting of the weaker parts of my story. This was the kind of contribution I was hoping for to see in this conversation!
My intent is, that by the time I'm applying I will have passed Level 2 already so that should be able to provide some "Academic" support for my application. And please don't tell me how the CFA doesn't actually teach you much about real life finance. I know that already...
I'll definitely have to work on my story still for sure!
Better idea is to find someone who is in industry or experienced that can help you. If all else fails pay a coach.
Here's the question I would ask. Why is it that the first thing you hone in on with the CFA is "doesn't teach you much about real life finance"? It's a certification that's valued highly by the job market so why downplay it?
I suspect the answer to that question is the same reason why you're having difficulty with this to begin with.
I was mainly trying to prevent someone like poopybutthole from commenting how being a Level 2 Candidate doesn't mean anything...
Of course I am aware of the value of the CFA-program. Otherwise I wouldn't have registered for the exam...
Career switcher: Classical music to finance (Originally Posted: 11/14/2017)
Hey WSO gang!
I'm a classical musician based out of the USA who would like to make the transition to the world of finance. I've become disillusioned with the profession of music and have always been interested in finance. I studied at a famous music school in NY (yes, that one) and received my master's degree. All the while, I traded options to fund my studies and living expenses while maintaining a professional performance schedule and completing my studies with a 3.6 GPA. I have professional experience abroad and speak 4 languages
What opportunities would exist for somebody like me or in a similar situation? I'd love to switch to role in S&T, and would love your input as far as the best way to tailor an application to a firm for consideration.
Thank you all for your time!
Hey deMaestro, I think you deserve a response...heck, everyone does. We're listening, sorry about the delay ...my best guess at places on WSO that could help:
More suggestions...
I hope those threads give you a bit more insight.
Any music major in IB/BB? (Originally Posted: 04/03/2013)
I'm just curious if any of you here got a music major or music was one the majors you got back in undergrad college? just very interested in knowing...
yeah, i am. but also doing a dual degree in business
I'm into vocal performance - too bad it's near impossible to practice in the city while working.
One of the VPs who interviewed me majored in music, but it's pretty uncommon.
Head of Operations at a huge HF I interviewed with had a music degree from a music/theatre school.
I know a music major in MBB. She was from one of H/Y/S. Dunno about BBs.
I have a buddy at a BB who did music, but it was a double major with an Econ/Accounting type major so the point is kind of moot.
thanks folks! I was pursuing a BM in violin performance before my junior year when my left hand got injured and added economics as an "exit option". luckily ended up with a spot in a quasi-BB last year and just very interested in interviewing anyone with a music background in BB/IB and their stories along the career paths.
thanks!
Any musicians out there? (Originally Posted: 07/16/2014)
Ever get the chance to take out your axe (whatever it may be) once you get into the working world?
i break out my skin flute every now and again. all the girls love it.
I figured that would come out eventually. I'm just impressed it was first
played guitar since 7th grade, was in bands in high school & college (never toured), but working, it's tough. when you work a lot, have a girl/spend time trying to get girls, try to stay in shape, it's just tough.
I'm a singer and was in a band in high school--definitely looking to start a band at college next year if I can find the time!
I'm still in school but I've been playing guitar for the past couple years. Easily one of the best decision that I have ever made, it's amazing being able to shred your favorite songs.
do you strum using a pick or pluck?
I do both on acoustic and electric...because why not.
if you can afford it, it'd be worth your while to get lessons for at least a couple of years. it will help your improvisational skills, songwriting, etc.
what lessons teach you is exercises to get your chops good, proper hand position, scales, keys, modes, chord progressions, etc., that will make you a more complete musician versus someone who can only play his favorite style of music. playing your favorite music is awesome and you shouldn't stop doing this, but by going straight to this I feel like you're trying to run before you can walk, and in music it's important to have a good foundation.
for whatever it's worth, I don't see any benefit to learning how to read sheet music, I'm not that elitist, but the above will help you out for sure.
Damn there's a lot of guitar players out there. Unfortunately my instrument of choice is a bit louder haha. I've played trumpet in a lot of jazz bands for the last 6 or 7 years. Not jazz exclusively by any means but it's by far the most fun. Not too many apartment tenants are a fan though...
Get a muzzle or whatever they're called? My band director told a lot of people to get them so they wouldn't annoy neighbors.
No, unfortunately. Busy at work plus my instrument is not conducive to NYC apartment buildings.
Also, Better Off Ted is amazing, and magnificently underrated.
Completely agree. Watched the entire series during finals week my freshman year on netflix.
Any drummers living in apt buildings try electronic sets?
I have a roommate with an electronic set. He says it's alight for what it is, but a lot better than nothing.
@"torchic" Just by practicing and I enjoy switching between the two. I learn everything off of youtube, check out Marty Schwartz and Justin Sandercoe for some lessons.
I hear some guys pool money to just rent a studio somewhere
@"thebrofessor" I completely agree. The two guys that I mentioned (Justin Sandercoe & Marty Schwartz) teach all of that stuff. Most of it is free on youtube, but each of them have their websites were they go more in depth. I managed to win a lifetime subscription to guitarjamz.com and it's amazing how there is to learn.
never done youtube lessons, just recalling this from my own personal experiences, I think there's something to be said for an in person instructor, especially for things like hand & finger positioning. you'd be amazed at the sounds you make and the extra movement you do without anyone teaching you proper technique (you're lifting your fingers too high, your fingers are too flat, you're pressing too hard, etc.). if you don't want in person lessons, your prerogative sure, but I think they're important to get good habits early on.
i'm a sax player, but it's quite tough trying to spend time practicing...even i'm just an itern now and you'll find your skill decaying gradually, sooner than expected Later, to some extent, you can't bear the poor situation in techinical skills that prevent you from playing some "easy" pieces in the past someday sucks
Definitely hear you on that. I'm interning as well and still play in a summer pops band but I have a bad feeling it could be my last summer with that
Was a pianist since I was 7 years old. Sort of a child prodigy, played in state competitions and took from some pretty well known and renowned teachers in the classical space (Julliard, Gnessin school in Russia). Don't really play much anymore
Props to you man. I started playing piano around 5 but never came anywhere bear where you were. I stopped about 7 years about but have been thinking about trying to pick it up a little again. Time is the only problem...
Music - Defines you (Originally Posted: 09/27/2009)
So what kind of music defines your balling?! I dig mostly experimental hiphop, drum'n'bass, dubstep. Everyone lectures me I need to expand my comfort zone. So please let's throw some artists names and links.
Nneka - Heartbeat (Chase $ Status we just bought a guitar remix)
Kazzushi - Interlude http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSC6e1jzz6I Hudson Mohawke - ZooO00oO0m
Couple other threads on the subject: http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/banker-anthems http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/any-trance-heads-out-there
Also, you can embed Youtube here.
Some new stuff since the Trance thread was active:
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