Nobody wants to do sales in Sales & Trading?
Recently a BB came to my school to recruit. All the students there said they wanted to go into trading (including me), and none of them said they wanted to go into sales. Then this sales guy from the BB started presenting, and I must say I was very impressed and I might have been persuaded by him to be more open to sales. Let me tell you why.
First off, he presented very well, which you should expect of a sales man but he was really smooth and good. When the traders presented, they were like giving pauses in the middle, like "urm", as they recollect their thoughts. Not that I expect traders to be very good in presentations because their main job is trading the markets, but I was more impressed with the sales man here in this instance.
Second, when someone asked him how are the exit opportunities for sales people as compared to traders. He said as a salesman, his networks are immensely larger than traders. He travels a lot to foreign markets to get clients, so he might be talking to head of the Corporations, Hedge Funds, etc. If they find him good, he can be poached to join them.
Any thoughts guys? Any experienced sales people here to comment?
How is institutional sales?
Sales is a relationship and knowledge based position. You have to have good interpersonal skills when your selling ideas to portfolio managers and generating trade volume for your desk.
You can have a good career in Sales, but of course, it is not for everyone. In fact if you become a large income generator and have a book of clients (say of $50 MM) in HNW accounts, every other bank will try to snatch you from your current one-they'll be fighting over you.
Recommended Reading
cool story, bro. remember, he's in sales, and will say anything to convince you that his point of view is the correct one. i don't believe every entry-level analyst on the sales side of S&T gets to travel to foreign markets to win over clients (in fact, i don't believe that any entry-level person does...), but it sure as hell sounds nice, don't it?
i dun think he's an entry level person. maybe associate to avp level.
Sales can be a great job and there is a great deal of money to be made there. Of course you lose the "unlimited upside" of trading but in a post-DF world, it isn't all that likely we'll see many more Driss Ben-Brahim and Andy Hall type paydays again. Until you want to get married and have kids, the lifestyle is pretty amazing for someone who wants to talk markets and make loot doing it.
cool!
Someone needs to read Liar's Poker.
sales is sweet (comin from someone who does it) ---- we work like 7:30 to 5:20 ( leave somewhat early on Fridays) and work is composed of talking to clients about markets and other bs (going out with them once or twice a week) getting to have awesome dinners that are expensed... the only real negative is when u have an a hole custy who shops u and loves to tell u that u suck.... --- really good lifestyle compared to banking----
I have a few follow up questions:
-do you have to bring In your own clients at a young age? That's a major criticism of other sales jobs, you are forced to bring in new clients and therefore the turnover ratio is high.
-how does sales differ at an IDB (such as ICAP, cantor)? I aplogize in advance if that's a dumb question. I don't know much about what the sales part of s&t does?
Thanks in advance
I asked him the first question and the answer I got was that you had to leverage on every opportunity. This includes cold calling, going to socialising events and conferences to network with potential clients, even asking your relatives and friends if they know anyone who could be of benefit. The good thing is that he comes from a good BB, so people are willing to talk to him.
As for your second question, to my understanding, ICAP is interbank dealer, meaning that the clients are the banks and the volume is massively large. For IBs, their clients volume are smaller so we may be talking about mutual funds, hedge funds or asset management firms.
Hi Future Trader 1999,
Looking to get into sales. Like the sound of your gig. Plus, you have my home boy Lebron as your pic (i.e. grew up in Cleveland. Similar age. Both got to attend all star events for athletes. Obviously didn't play with him, because I'm a chick). Anyway............ What firm do you work for? Can you recommend any firms with similar gigs? I used to do capital raise for private equity and a fundraising for a REIT so interested in a sales position. I warmly welcome advice and suggestions. Thanks in advance, Sarah
Hi Future Trader 1999,
Looking to get into sales. Like the sound of your gig. Plus, you have my home boy Lebron as your pic (i.e. grew up in Cleveland. Similar age. Both got to attend all star events for athletes. Obviously didn't play with him, because I'm a chick). Anyway............ What firm do you work for? Can you recommend any firms with similar gigs? I used to do capital raise for private equity and a fundraising for a REIT so interested in a sales position. I warmly welcome advice and suggestions. Thanks in advance, Sarah
Institutional sales is a great gig if you have the personality for it. They make great money, get to take clients out to cool restaurants and entertainment events, and really have no skin in the game to keep them up at night. They are really just the middle man between hedge funds/mutual funds and the equity research analyst.
I spoke with a former rates trader turned credit salesman, and he mentioned all the perks Bowser wrote about. I'd be happy with either role, but in this recruiting environment, I don't think I have the luxury to be picky anyway.
My comments are made from the perspective from someone at a client, but I think that the universe of clients is fairly well known, so new guys on a desk are not expected to find fresh clients. Rather, the new guys will co-cover existing clients with a more experienced salesman, and over time, be given the less desirable / smaller clients.
You can have a good career in Sales, but of course, it is not for everyone. In fact if you become a large income generator and have a book of clients (say of $50 MM) in HNW accounts, every other bank will try to snatch you from your current one-they'll be fighting over you.
ER can be much more boring.
no, you're not pressured to bring in accts--- as a junior you eventually will be given smallish/ low commision accts and then are judged on how well u do with them and if you can increase their business with XYZ firm
icap, IDB jobs are more cutthroat, basically tiny salary and all emphasis on ur trades, more nights out and entertaining, and less intellectual rigor ( on my sales desk in mortgages, the complexity of the product means we're talking about the mkt on a daily basis with some of the biggest accts out there.... from what i've heard, IDB can crush it, but in my opinion is a much worse lifestyle...
Are you in MBS sales? I've had a few opportunities in the area but can't find much information on it
On the FI side there is a huge difference between sales at a BB and sales at a regional dealer. Its almost a different profession. An interview with someone who has done both would be a good idea.
Sales is the lifeblood of any company, so there's clearly money to be made there. It may be stressful at times, but it comes with many perks (such as going to concerts and restaurants with high-profile clients) and decent hours you won't find in most other finance gigs. I visited a sales desk at Fidelity and one of the guys claimed to be earning more selling mutual funds than his friends in IBD (it wasn't exactly the same type of sales as in S&T, but fairly similar). I wouldn't do sales because I'm just not as passionate about it, but I've met several salespeople in finance who have made a great living doing something they enjoy. It's up to you..
did a rotation at the sales desk this summer and totally loved it.
FYI pancakes, that's a very different kind of sales than the sales in S&T.
They're very different roles. A sales guy at a bank isn't literally selling something like a mutual fund salesman is. He's talking to the buy side to try to influence their investment decisions. There are some differences depending on the asset class, but that's a general guideline.
Back to the original topic, sales like people have said is a good career but comes up short for a lot of people because they never actually take on risk and invest themselves. Also have never heard of a sales guy getting hired at my firm, but maybe at the smaller ones this happens.
That's great that you gave it some thought but you are wrong. GoodBread's second post should make it perfectly clear.
You seem to be describing an internal/external wholesaler role. Very different from a sell-side sales desk
Sorry this is a silly question. When applying does one choose to be placed in sales rather than trading? Isn't S+T a rotation between both at most banks? The trading part kind of deterred me from applying to S+T.
It depends on the bank. Why is the trading part deterring you from applying?
Selling hedge funds would have to be somewhere in the middle of working in s&t and selling mutual funds thought right?
Institutional equity sales is relationship and knowledge based. They try to sell their ideas to PMs to generate volume and knows if their clients are having buying or selling interest in a company if we are doing blocks.
I stand corrected
Sales experience will go a long way. But it is not easy. You'll quickly learn how to bend the rules. Essentially, in corporate sales, you're not really allowed to give gifts, by law. But it is fairly common to take large clients out on fishing trips, concerts, and sporting events. One thing you gotta understand is that these executives of institutional(fortune companies) don't get those perks from working. And many request it.
I worked in group life insurance sales at MetLife which focused solely on companies with 25k+ employees(Fortune 1000). It sometimes takes a year to land an account(6-7 visits, 2-3days a piece). Sure it sounds nice. Big expense and travel budgets. A general rule, the bigger the account, the more traveling you'll have to do. While I was at MetLife, I worked 3 days a week, in another city pitching a client, constant traveling. There's no reason to prepare slides, sales materials etc when you have sales analysts/receptionists to do that all for you.
Nihil distinctio id cum aspernatur iure. Et nihil et laborum culpa nihil omnis. Aut consequatur ea quam ipsam enim nostrum cumque id.
Consequatur eaque quaerat officiis et non sunt. Occaecati aut dolorem inventore mollitia. Fuga iusto adipisci sequi quo rem excepturi.
Tenetur ut dolor deserunt placeat ut dignissimos. Delectus hic eum consequuntur. Omnis nam quis deleniti numquam laborum at ut eum. Voluptatem ratione perferendis ab odit nisi voluptatibus. Debitis nam voluptate alias voluptatem ut non. Magni nulla ducimus et et hic.
Esse explicabo natus id quos ut consequatur. Quaerat cumque aut beatae omnis illum repellat.
See All Comments - 100% Free
WSO depends on everyone being able to pitch in when they know something. Unlock with your email and get bonus: 6 financial modeling lessons free ($199 value)
or Unlock with your social account...
Ut dolorem excepturi pariatur beatae fugiat qui rem. Quibusdam autem dicta vel. Iusto culpa quis fugiat veritatis voluptatem vero corrupti.
Consequatur repellat expedita et ea voluptas. Repellat iure delectus et qui modi quaerat vel. Non sequi est officiis labore maxime rerum qui. Id fugiat iure voluptates omnis aperiam molestias facilis consectetur.