1/23/10

Hi,

Make your own top (in tiers) of investment management companies.

Comments (38)

1/23/10

What really matters in AM? Returns? Assets under management? Compensation? Location of head office? I'm not going to nit-pick through top-tier firms, but I'd say all of these are pretty solid:

Pimco, Wellington, GSAM, BGI/Blackrock, Western Asset Management, JPMAM, Fidelity, Alliance Bernstein, ING Investment Management, Schroeders

Financial Modeling

1/23/10

Prestige, compensation

1/24/10

Tough one,
Each company has good funds and not so good funds
You can't rank on presitge in this industry, its about performance. figure out the style you are interested in: equity vs. fi vs. alt then equity = lcg, lcv etc... You'll see its not a simple ranking

1/25/10

I agree with LAWM in that it varies by product and client type. In ternms of large, active, institutional AM firms, I would go with PIMCO, Wellington, GSAM, Blackrock, JPMAM, and AllianceBernsterin from Brotherbear's list. It is nearly impossible to make compensation comparisons. They aren't all taking in a large analyst class each year like BBs do for IB. For experienced hires, they all pay market rates for the given position.

PIONLINE.COM has rankings by AUM. This can give you a sense of what funds these firm's manage. Of course, size doesn't mean prestige or even compensation.

1/25/10

yup, some are good at FI, some at territories, caps blah blah..
but i think in general PIMCO and blackrock are pretty good... goldman as well

templeton, julius baer have their own strengths as well

2/7/10

Under GSAM, I'm being offered:
1. Investment Partners (IP)
2. Global Solutions Partners (GSP) - Portfolio Management
3. Private Equity Group (PEG)

and I'm being told if I start in one, I'll be able to laterally transfer to the other. Not sure if this actually possible??
Which would be most enjoyable since I can do all three?

7/29/14

Which one did you end up joining? Just curious to know what made you choose one over other.

7/29/14

thisguy:

Under GSAM, I'm being offered:

1. Investment Partners (IP)

2. Global Solutions Partners (GSP) - portfolio management

3. Private Equity Group (PEG)

and I'm being told if I start in one, I'll be able to laterally transfer to the other. Not sure if this actually possible??

Which would be most enjoyable since I can do all three?


Which one did you end up joining? Just curious to know what made you choose one over other.
2/8/10

I wouldn't take the "lateralling" too literally.

They tell kids going into pwm that they can lateal to ibd or s&t

7/29/14

I think in terms of pure investment firms: PIMCO, Fidelity, Wellington, TRowe, BlackRock usually take the top spot. If you include banks JPM/GS would be in there for sure.

Financial Modeling

8/6/14

I find it interesting that in all these posts the most coveted AM firm hasn't even been mentioned.

8/6/14

ibleedexcel:

I find it interesting that in all these posts the most coveted AM firm hasn't even been mentioned.

Bernard L. Madoff Investment Securities?

8/6/14

He's probably referring to Capital Group or Dodge&Cox.

8/6/14

ibleedexcel:

I find it interesting that in all these posts the most coveted AM firm hasn't even been mentioned.

What is: the Capital Group.

8/6/14

ibleedexcel:

I find it interesting that in all these posts the most coveted AM firm hasn't even been mentioned.

Lumina Investments?

8/6/14

we're not including elite hedge funds

"The four most dangerous words in investing are: 'this time it's different.'" - Sir John Templeton

"The investor's chief problem - and even his worst enemy - is likely to be himself." - Benjamin Graham

8/6/14
8/6/14

assuming we're not including hedgies in here

Perkins
Brandes
Davis (abysmal performance recently, but stellar long term)
Templeton
EIC (small company out of Atlanta, great performance and philosophy though)
Royce (great for small caps)

for bonds:

nuveen
PIMCO
met west/tcw
doubleline

"The four most dangerous words in investing are: 'this time it's different.'" - Sir John Templeton

"The investor's chief problem - and even his worst enemy - is likely to be himself." - Benjamin Graham

8/7/14

Can somebody explain why Capital Group is so well respected? I know the America growth funds are big and they have been around a long time, but the returns don't seem out of this world. Legitimately curious, not trying to hate at all.

8/7/14

I'll chime in here. don't know about prestige, but I think it's more name recognition & history which makes them respected. AF is one of the biggest asset managers in the world, and they have some of the oldest funds in the world (investment company of america). the returns are not out of this world for the entire firm, but ICA has had over a 12% return since inception 80 years ago. while that's an extremely long time and a very opportune time to start investing in US equities, it's still impressive in my opinion. other examples are american mutual (11% yoy since inception in 1950, one of the first non tobacco/alcohol funds), AMCAP (11% since inception 1967), and EuroPacific is one of the older (Brandes global equity is oldest I believe) international funds (also 11% yoy since inception 1984).

I agree, those are not insane returns, but I think compounding at 10%+ over 30, 40, 60, 80 years is a surefire way to financial independence. as far as analyst work, I'd bet that you would get more exciting work at a deep value/distressed shop than somewhere like AF where the process is pretty plain Jane.

"The four most dangerous words in investing are: 'this time it's different.'" - Sir John Templeton

"The investor's chief problem - and even his worst enemy - is likely to be himself." - Benjamin Graham

Best Response
8/7/14

I'm fairly familiar with Capital, though I've never worked there. I think the prestige really stems from their investment process, as well as the fact that they are a private company with over a trillion in AUM, which makes the economics pretty juicy for everyone relative to other big publicly traded long-onlys.

Things like a sizable research portfolio (signals conviction), portfolio counselor approach (e.g. 6-8 PMs each investing in their highest conviction ideas), truly global collaboration (enabled by best-in-class teleconferencing infrastructure), and a fairly 'academic' culture that encourages dissenting opinions make them much more likely to outperform over the long-run. If you meet some of their analysts, you will likely be very impressed. Whether its a guy that's been covering Indonesian equities for 25 years and is well connected to all of the political families, or some of their very senior tech ppl that have been around since eToys was still a good idea... they are sharp, and yet extremely approachable. That's not to say you won't find great career analysts at Fido, Putnam, TRowe, FranklinTempleton, Dodge etc., but it is just the norm over there.

You will get a lot of guys that will walk away from Citadel or Soros offers to join Capital, which is not really the case at other MFs in my experience. All that said, I agree that their performance has been slipping the past few years. If they can't correct that they will likely see some decent outflows. But given their process, I wouldn't really bet against them over a 10 yr horizon.

8/7/14

I gave a banana for this very excellent summary of Capital. I agree with everything here. Capital is definitely a bit more cerebral and contrarian than the other mutual funds, and the caliber of talent there is exceptional. All the big mutua funds recruit regularly at my school, and Capital is the only place where no one can get an offer. From what I've heard, it's been several years since anyone got an offer there. They usually hire the best from just HBS and Stanford.

Capital has seen a $250 billion outflow since the financial crisis, so they are trying hard to recover. One area they're trying to get into is ETFs, so they can reach more customers and get rid of the middleman in terms of distribution.

Anyone know how Brandes is doing? They were at 70 billion AUM at its highwater mark, and last time I checked they were down to like $15. But this is a bit outdated.

8/7/14

lol...not only are rankings pointless in this space.. this list is also dead wrong.

8/7/14
Derivatives:

Similar to the top prop trading firms ranking. I'm factoring in prestige, compensation, selectivity, type of work, exit opportunities, etc.

  1. PIMCO
  2. Wellington
  3. Capital Group
  4. Grantham Mayo
  5. Dodge and Cox
  6. BlackRock
  7. T Rowe Price
  8. Fidelity
  9. MFS
  10. Putnam

Just like in Trading, you cannot simply rank a firm. There are too many factors one needs to consider (e.g. strategies, products, etc...).

Having said that, BlackRock is the world's largest AM firm and has Larry Fink at its helm. That alone is good enough to rank it as one of the world's, if not the world's leading firms.

8/7/14

Please let people post their lists, it'll put more names into my excel sheet of who to cold call :)

How does Janus do, btw?

"You stop being an asshole when it sucks to be you." -IlliniProgrammer
"Your grammar made me wish I'd been aborted." -happypantsmcgee

8/7/14
D M:

Please let people post their lists, it'll put more names into my excel sheet of who to cold call :)

How does Janus do, btw?

Half of these firms you don't simply 'cold call'. They have structured SA / FT roles.

8/7/14

Rigoddamndiculous.

8/7/14

^^^ Don't listen to this person.

8/7/14

I'm not listening to him.

Walkio: cold-calling and cold-emailing works at any firm when you get the right person on the phone.

"You stop being an asshole when it sucks to be you." -IlliniProgrammer
"Your grammar made me wish I'd been aborted." -happypantsmcgee

8/7/14

ranking is stupid. these are the funds i know are good though.

small work cultures

1 tier. Wellington, MFS, T. Rowe, Dodge & Cox
2 tier. Putnam

large work culture

1 tier. PIMCO, Cap Group
2 tier. Fidelity, BlackRock

Most known companies, good places to start a career but not good places to keep working:
BlackRock & Fidelity

fidelity has pretty much the shittiest work culture ever.

8/7/14

I've never heard anything particularly bad about Fidelity's culture. What makes you say it's so terrible?

lifesgreatmystery:

ranking is stupid. these are the funds i know are good though.

small work cultures

1 tier. Wellington, MFS, T. Rowe, Dodge & Cox
2 tier. Putnam

large work culture

1 tier. PIMCO, Cap Group
2 tier. Fidelity, BlackRock

Most known companies, good places to start a career but not good places to keep working:
BlackRock & Fidelity

fidelity has pretty much the shittiest work culture ever.

8/7/14
theBEEGEES:

I've never heard anything particularly bad about Fidelity's culture. What makes you say it's so terrible?

lifesgreatmystery:

ranking is stupid. these are the funds i know are good though.

small work cultures

1 tier. Wellington, MFS, T. Rowe, Dodge & Cox
2 tier. Putnam

large work culture

1 tier. PIMCO, Cap Group
2 tier. Fidelity, BlackRock

Most known companies, good places to start a career but not good places to keep working:
BlackRock & Fidelity

fidelity has pretty much the shittiest work culture ever.

This thread's silly, but I would like to know about this as well.

8/7/14

Equity:
1. Capital Group
2. Wellington
3. Dodge & Cox
4. T. Rowe
5. PrimeCap
6. MFS
7. Fidelity
8. BlackRock

Fixed Income:
1. PIMCO

8/7/14
ibleedexcel:

Equity:
1. Capital Group
2. Wellington
3. Dodge & Cox
4. T. Rowe
5. PrimeCap
6. MFS
7. Fidelity
8. BlackRock

Fixed Income:
1. PIMCO

Capital group is insanely selective. I think they only give like 1-2 full time post-MBA offers every year. I know a second year at booth who got Citadel global equities but got dinged at capital group.

8/7/14

lol this is so funny

8/7/14
8/7/14
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