NYC vs. Charlotte Banking
I am a military veteran that has been accepted to a couple great MBA programs and hoping someone in this forum can shed some light on the topic.
I received a 80% scholarship from NYU Stern and 100% Scholarship from UVA Darden. Also, been accepted to Columbia (does not release scholarship info yet) and Kellogg w/ no scholarship. Assuming I get no scholarship from Columbia, my choice comes down to NYU Stern and UVA Darden. I am absolutely interested in IB, but I do not understand the appeal of NYC. I come from a poor background and extremely small hometown, so NYC just seems like a lot. Not only that but with WFH increasing and COL rising across the country, including taxes. Why is IB in NYC so sought after?
I am justifying in my head right now whether to take NYU Stern and recruit IB in NYC, or take Darden and recruit IB in Charlotte or even Chicago. I understand Charlotte is basically WF and some solid MM banks, but what's the problem with that?
At the end of the day, I understand that prestige is certainly a factor and many individuals love NYC, but if I don't care about either than should I take the Darden scholarship and not look back? If I do not go to NYC early in my career am I hindering long term growth ( I don't know if I want to do IB long term but never say never)?
.
Sure, I mean google-able. The answer is subjective. If I am a post-MBA associate than my exit opportunities (i.e. PE) are limited anyways. I guess I was looking for a post-MBA associate or long-term banker to answer this question.
I would not fall into the trap of "no PE opportunities as a MBA Associate" . I don't care how much MS I get, but I have seen multiple Associates jump over to PE in todays market. Now, I do not know if this will continue for a while, but I would not discount yourself.
Just my opinion but I'd say going to Stern and recruiting for NYC is going to be an easier path into IB and will give you more optionality if you end up not enjoying it. Stern MBA is a strong feeder into IB and you'll be able to recruit for NYC which will have several more spots. More banks and larger groups in NYC so more chances to get in. If you go to Darden you'll be at one of the top schools for those CLT seats but not that many compared to NYC. If you decide you don't want to do IB long-term, being in NYC is going to be easier for you to leave. Once again, more jobs and roles in NYC compared to CLT.
You'll be well compensated if you head into IB so taking on some student loans shouldn't be an issue, you got most of the tuition covered at Stern which is good already. This is advice if you are 100% going into your MBA program to head into IB. If you are wishy-washy on your career post MBA then yes maybe taking that Darden full ride could make sense to alleviate the debt burden.
Darden places very well into IB.
NY is the right choice if IB is your career path
UVA doesn't exactly place poorly though, still a top school with plenty of opportunity to get to NYC
Correct - Darden generally has no issue placing students in NYC. Think we had ~4-5 in my start class at a BB (+1 or 2 Darden students working in non-NYC cities between SF/HOU/CHI)
There's also BofA Charlotte which has a LevFin team that cross staffs with NYC. They also have a new regional coverage team. I'd go to UVA probably if I was in your seat.
Darden places very well into IB including into NYC. I'd go with the school that gives you the most and best chances at IB period. I would then take the best ib job you can get which will probably be in NY.
OP I grew up in a small town and live in Charlotte. I love Charlotte but I absolutely encourage young bankers starting out to take the job that gives them the best brand and deal exposure, which is usually a NYC job. If you get that in NYC, you will be able to go to any bank you want in Charlotte. While it's not impossible to go from Charlotte to NYC it's definitely not as easy as going from a reputable BB or EB to Charlotte. Pm me if you have more questions
I disagree with the comments here honestly. I seriously believe a lot of the depression, despair, and horror stories on this forum from young guys would be mitigated with BOTH a higher comp and relatively better WLB both of which you find in a LCOL. If people want to try and sell you on exits, "prestige," and other opportunities that's fine but I frankly believe that is a bullshit hive mentality and the same mentality that has caused all the depression on this forum for new young guys.
^This . Take the full ride from Darden (UVA is honestly a better academic school anyways and still places excellently). You can still get to NYC from UVA if you want but if you have no concern for prestige and simply want to work in MM IB and make a higher salary relative to your expenses then pick Charlotte all the way. Plus there are plenty of MM/LMM PE exits in the Charlotte/South East/Texas/Florida to go around. Also Charlotte is warmer, and a better place to start/raise a family than NYC
I can only imagine that having near no debt after graduation does wonders for ones mental health
/
Hard disagree with those saying Stern —> nyc banking. This is post mba not post undergrad. Exit opportunities are much less defined and the odds are OP that will stay in banking in some form or move to an internal finance or corp dev role.
Darden places great into IB, and wanting to do banking in Charlotte is a well thought out career path here for someone coming out of the military who values a better lifestyle.
Darden will also place a few people in Charlotte in other jobs outside of banking; I imagine Stern will place close to zero. OP would do well to build a decent network now. Moving to nyc for 3-4 years and then moving back down south doesn’t make much sense when he can just move straight to where he wants to live after attending one of the top b schools in the south.
Thanks for this! In my mind, I am leaning Darden but the prestige and others perceptions has me considering Stern for the NYC IB route. Darden provides a much better graduate school experience, I believe, with Charlottesville being known as a great college town. Also, Darden places well into IB in NYC but I am sure that they place well across the Southeast. I need to get in contact with Darden IB club to get more details. I love being outdoors including hiking, golf, running, working out so I think recruiting CLT or ATL, is the way to go.
I’m not sure that stern has that much more “prestige” than Darden. What is it 2 spots higher in the ranking? Go where you’ll be happy in the long run.
Honestly I'd say Darden has the higher prestige than Stern. Stern only gets points bc it is physically located in NYC.
Pm me, I can put you in touch
Why do people on this forum act like it’s hard to lateral from CLT/ATL to NY if you’re at a decent shop
What do you define as a decent shop? ex: WF, Truist, Blackarch, Blair, etc?
Blair, piper, Jefferies, wf (group dependent)
Dude, it’s your life… don’t live for the rest of us. I think NYC is sick, and the optionality and proximity to HQs can be big for career development, but if that’s not what you want then why are you worried about it?
They’re pretty comparable BSchools for recruitment and academics… sure, NYU probably has a slight edge because of networking proximity, but if you’re positive you’re not going to New York it doesn’t really matter. Grads from both schools will end up in banking and other solid careers, and transferring cities is always possible (granted, usually much easier to go from big market to small). Btw, both NYU and UVA grads will end up all over the country, though there’s definitely some self selection.
Unless you have a connection to the city already, I’d recommend not setting your heart on Charlotte, for what it’s worth… solid opportunities, no question, just not that big of a market overall, I’d hate for you to get deadset on one city and strike out. If, as you alluded, you’re cool with anywhere cheaper than New York (CHI, ATL, Dallas, Nashville, Jacksonville, etc.), you’re less likely to run into that issue (though many secondary markets like when you have a tie to the city so that you’re less likely to leave)
Yeah plenty of other banks that are in similar non NYC locations. Truist ATL, RayJay Tampa, Baird Milwaukee, and boutiques all over.
For someone like you who is clearly a bit older than the avg. person starting in IB having been in the military and now MBA, just live the lifestyle you want bro. You wont be happy in NYC.
The fact you even wrote this post means you are not an NYC guy. Its not for everybody. It wasn't for me. Follow your gut
Darden places fine into BBs, it's the sexier firms like Centerview, PJT and Evercore that they tend to not have as good opportunities. If all you want is to make bank in charlotte while writing credit memos, dope - go to UVA and don't look back. If you're interested in a solid shot at every single bank on the street go to Stern (really CBS is a better choice but that's a different discussion).
Darden has a large pipeline into Evercore, Moelis, and Lazard in NYC. CVP and PJT you are correct though.
I think the difference is that generally the core four finance schools - of which NYU and CBS are included - get more spots at these banks. Sure, 1 or 2 from Darden may go to Moelis, but NYU will send 5 and CBS will send 7. Reality is that the entrenched alumni teams will always get their way and it's a self-fulfilling prophecy. Def not saying it's impossible to get to these places, it's just a lot harder when there is only 1 spot for you, no matter how small your class is. Also applies for top/sexy groups at BB's - if you're gunning for like MS Menlo, far better shot from a feeder school.
You can recruit to both locations from either school. Pick the school where you like the people and location. These will be your buddies, support, and lifelong connections. Recruiting online might not be ideal, but it works well enough and it seems like you’re a strong candidate so use all those things to your advantage.
BofA also have their headquarters in Charlotte. Not sure of their IB presence there though
It’s relatively light, lev fin, some real estate and syndications was my understanding. Wells is the biggest by far in Charlotte, then a bunch of MMs like Regions, Truist, US Bank, Piper, Stifel and the like. Did you apply to any other B Schools? Fuqua would probably be worth an application it places well in Charlotte. I’d choose Darden over NYU and wouldn’t rule out CBS or Kellogg.
What are your long term goals, if it’s Corp dev or finance at a F500, Charlotte has much lower COL and is much more family friendly.
I got into Fuqua, as well, but got a small scholarship definitely couldn’t justify it over Darden when they are around same tier.
I agree no $ from Kellogg was rough to see, but awaiting CBS scholarship info. If I get $$ from them then I’ll end up NYC for CBS. Awaiting to hear from HBS and Wharton in R2, also.
BofA Charlotte opened a regional coverage team about a year ago.
People are really underestimating the breadth of opportunities in CLT. Given your preferences I'd choose Darden. Even if you strike out with CLT banks (unlikely), it's not like Darden doesn't place well in NYC either. CLT is not just WF, plenty of other banks recruit MBA classes and most specifically target Darden, Kenan-Flagler, Fuqua and other top southern based programs. Of course WF is probably the largest recruiter, but as others have mentioned BoA has a large LevFin and DCM platform in CLT. Additionally, BlackArch, Jefferies, William Blair, Piper Sandler, Leerink, Lazard MM, Deloitte Corporate Finance all have large CLT presence. Most regional banks have a presence in CLT as well (5/3, Citizens, KeyBank, Regions, Truist). If you want southeast in general, Harris WIlliams, Barclays, Guggenheim, Goldman offer plenty of opportunities. Any of these banks can offer a great career and life in the south.
Would agree that NYC is overrated af. If you like Virginia go with UVA.
You also may find you become interested in AM, Consulting, Corp Fin, etc. If so, regardless of locale, UVA is a better brand and overall experience than NYU. UVA MBAs all over MBB and Corp America. NYU is quite finance specific.
Darden will place you at any bank on the street (to the extent you change your mind re: NYC) and sounds like a much better culture fit for you anyways.
Could your GI Bill not pay for either?
I am only staying over 90 days for 50% GI Bill, past my 4 year obligation because I could not imagine staying another 3 years just for 100% GI Bill. With this, however, I do not have access to the yellow ribbon program, if I did then I would absolutely go to Kellogg lol.
I considered it but my mental health and the opportunity cost that I would lose when I could be doing IB for those 3 years is not worth it to me, personally. I will be 30 once I graduate from my MBA program.
I'm with you. I'm at 10 years now and feel like I should have started getting out years ago.
Everyone here trashing on CLT for NY “prestige” is so crazy. I get it if you’re an analyst shooting for PE then NY makes sense.
I’m at a MM (JEF/WB/etc) with an office in CLT there and was working with some people there recently. The people are so much more chill than my NY office, and apparently all the VPs and up have absolute mansions given COL. If I was a career banker I’d 100% try to end up down south as a senior, making 1M in CLT is such a better life than making $1.5M at a “better” bank in NYC. Also if you’re somewhere like BofA/WF/JEF/any bank with an NYC office, you can always transfer internally or just lateral if you do decide to move
shhhhhhh you're giving away the secret...let the disillusioned kids ship themselves off to NYC every year and then come back on this forum to complain. Our rents stay nice and low :)
This
The young hotspot in Charlotte is what 2 or 3 blocks large with about 5 restaurants? There's a reason rents are low...
NYC is appealing to 21 year olds for many reasons, but as one nears 30 and considers marriage/family/house purchase in the not distant future, Charlotte offers far better options.
I’m all for better LCOL I just wish there were better options than CLT. Atlanta is cool but not as big of a banking hub. Tampa would be nice but no optionality as there are only a few banks there. Would be fine if you plan to stay long-term though.
Go to Charlotte!!! I’m originally from the northeast and did a stint in NC (at the center if the universe) before I left the military, and I absolutely loved it. Most vets complain about NYC and the QoL. Your money will go further down south, along with better mental health.
Darden for the much better student experience
UVA will place the same as NYU for banking, it might even be easier as more banker types probably go to NYU. Overall the difference is negligible so pick the school you prefer between the two as your outcome should be the same.
Pick Stern as it gives you the most flexibility to recruit for both NYC and Charlotte. Don’t forget your perspective may change - many people enter school with a firm idea on a career path and transition to something new entirely, and this definitely includes geographic preference
If you do get Columbia even without full-ride, I would pick that over the rest as the name of a Columbia MBA and its alumni connections opens many doors that is hard to quantify
How salty does Darden get
Charlotte if you’re just trying to have a nice life.
Don’t make a choice based on a “career in banking” as 90%+ of Analysts don’t make it to MD.
Low COL compared to NYC and the banks pay the same. WLF, BAML, Lazard, Piper Sandler, Jeffries. I know for a fact BAML pays its CLT class exactly the same as it’s NYC class.
Columbia. Don’t worry about the scholarship.
If you wanna do IB, you absolutely need to choose Columbia or NYU. I would choose Columbia because it's just in a different tier - a higher tier, and MBA branding is a long-term branding (I know where you went to MBA 5-year out of school won't matter, but the alums are amazing). IB recruiting is super high touch, a lot of coffee chats, a lot of social events to see your physical and mental stamina (which you will definitely need on the job), so it helps a lot to be geographically close to where the banks are located.
The negative of going to a city school is the banks expect you to do a lot more - initiating more coffee chats with alums, attending more events, etc, but I believe the positives outweigh the higher expectation.
If you don’t understand the NYC allure, you never will. This is from a happy Chicago-based finance professional. If you have a full scholarship at Darden, I say take that and take chances either in ATL or Midwest. NYC is not all it’s cut out to be, especially for non 22-year olds trying to make a lasting career and not chase “prestige” or “exit oops”.
My 2 cents having lived in NY for 5+ years and in the south for 15+....
NYC is great if you're young, single and don't have any money or have a shit ton. If you're married and want a family? Charlotte. If you're 30+ and want to build wealth / stack the cash? Charlotte. If you have children or see yourself having them sometime during the MBA program or within first few years as an Associate? Charlotte.
Once you require more than 1br in NYC, the cost of living destroys your wealth generating ability. All else equal, if you need a 2br in Manhattan you will likely need to stay in banking or something that earns a similar salary for 3+ years to be equivalent to being in Charlotte for 1.5ish. As a quick and dirty example, I believe a 1000+ sq foot apartment in NYC runs you over $4.5k a month whereas the same can be had in Charlotte for $2.5k. On top of that, NY has state and city income tax. North Carolina has a state tax, but it is lower than NY's.
In sum, there are a lot of areas where your money leaks out in NYC compared to Charlotte. Working in Charlotte will provide you with better after-tax disposable income, but you do trade off having NY on your resume and having a bigger brand name (BB) as well if those things matter to you at this stage of life
The name brand does not matter to me as much as getting into a solid bank and building my network. If I make it a career then great, if I don’t I do understand not having that name brand could hinder career progression, but ultimately if I am moving on from banking then it’s because of my mental health.
I agree that taxes in NYC are incredibly high and I am at the point where I don’t want to spend 4K on a 700 sq ft. Apartment that I am going home to at midnight each night.
I feel that having even a larger living space could help whether I leave from the office at 7 pm or 1 am. Also, the outdoor activities around Charlotte and NC, in general, are much more diverse than NYC. I am an avid golfer so even the better weather is more appealing, too.
Ultimately after creating this thread (that blew up) I have realized that my mind is pretty much made up and I guess I wanted strangers on the internet to validate my stance.
I agree the CBS is a brand name that most gunning for banking do not turn down, but if I receive no scholarship then it is an extremely expensive school with COL. Also, the commuter school does not appeal to me much. I am looking for that college atmosphere with some solid sports and a nice college town.
might be worth noting that WB and Jefferies have ADGS groups in Charlotte that have veterans and UVA grads
You can go to Darden and recruit for both NY and Charlotte. Most guys from Darden end up in NY than any other location. Charlotte is also easy to get, you find less people from Darden go to Chicago. I am speaking cos I did my MBA at UVA and they have a very strong banking recruiting pipeline.
Another good things about UVA Darden banking recruit is that you only my have to do your banking networking via calls and you don’t have to go all the way to NY to meet with bankers for coffee chat. You should take that into consideration as well
NYC is more global finance, will do more cross transaction / complex financings / peculiar, bigger M&A etc
At a MM, will do a lot more run of the mill M&A.
But I would take the free Darden MBA and move to Charlotte, use the COL differential to enjoy what little free time you will have…
Enim et soluta ut rem sunt. Dignissimos architecto mollitia quia tenetur temporibus hic eius. Quaerat iste eligendi fugiat quis ut distinctio consequatur.
Aliquid voluptatum sint omnis ullam et. Aperiam ipsa qui eum.
See All Comments - 100% Free
WSO depends on everyone being able to pitch in when they know something. Unlock with your email and get bonus: 6 financial modeling lessons free ($199 value)
or Unlock with your social account...
Vel ipsum temporibus dicta ut velit. In laborum alias sequi quam possimus. Laudantium libero dolorum dolores enim autem velit. Voluptatem nihil enim aut aliquid. Odio voluptate eos quod corporis. Mollitia repudiandae eum qui dolor quo commodi eveniet iusto.
In sit nisi aut dolorem consequatur assumenda. Illum neque quisquam qui itaque aut eaque. Natus fuga enim officiis voluptas quas. Aut in debitis perspiciatis quia cupiditate.
Natus rerum cupiditate omnis eum et quas est. Recusandae in perferendis hic.
Laboriosam qui recusandae maxime consequatur voluptas. Temporibus sint repudiandae molestiae distinctio voluptas. Harum delectus modi blanditiis voluptatem unde. Tempore dolor natus commodi.
Voluptatem sit voluptas nesciunt. Non quae quia aut aut saepe praesentium. Error sequi vero ut laborum voluptatibus. Consequatur itaque inventore a corporis.
Harum occaecati aperiam ut modi sunt nostrum molestiae illo. At consectetur qui ut quibusdam. Praesentium est maxime blanditiis asperiores ut voluptas. Molestias aut at et molestiae ut. Rem sunt dolore sed sed quod quaerat sint. Praesentium impedit non cumque qui voluptatem et qui accusamus.
Dolores sit ducimus qui tempore itaque. Eum blanditiis quae placeat ullam id vitae. Ducimus voluptatum dolorem exercitationem molestiae sed cum dolore. Aut porro quia provident sed sed aliquid.