What’s everyone’s view on GS vs. JPM vs MS:

If you had an analyst/associate offer from each, in what order would you rank the offers.? Also what about if the offer was not in JPM healthcare, MS Tech, GS Tech (elite groups at each bank) which bank would you choose?

 

GS over all (excluding top groups) due to overall prestige and exits. I would also take GS Tech over MS Tech/JPM HC.

 

depends - definitely not JP because their group placement can’t fuck you and land you in ECM DCM or FIG. would definitely take GS Industrials/FIG/TMT over most MS groups. but would take MS M&A or MediaComm over GS industrials/FIG.

 

Are you saying these rankings basically don't matter? These are all good banks to start one's career at?

 

Bad topic but this could be helpful for someone in undergrad with 2 offers. For PE recruiting, I'd say these rankings are pretty accurate.

 

Exactly, idk why these sensitive boomers are so mad. This is essentially how headhunters view the BBs, it's not like OP said that DB employees are idiots and GS ones are geniuses.

I went to a nontarget and when I had offers from 2 BBs I had no idea which was better until I looked at WSO. If I went to the wrong one, my whole life trajectory would have been messed up.

 

Honestly though this a pretty solid most recently updated list.

 

This is honestly accurate, very few people work at GS/MS/JPM though, so enjoy the monkey shits.

If anyone has an offer from 2 banks, take the one in the higher tier. If same tier, go with people/culture.

 

Weird thing to say without consideration of groups or office if it is non-NYC. The difference between the "middle" and "top" here is less of a difference than the difference between groups.

 

Most BB offers are generalist and you have to network in to a group(Big reason why I went to an EB. You are absolutely right about NYC vs non-NYC; however, I'd say this ranking would be correct if there was a caveat that said "NYC offices and average group"

 
Controversial

Thoughts on EB rankings (can this even be done?):

Tier 1: Evercore Centerview Partners (both have top-notch pay, amazing deal flow and supposedly solid culture)

Tier 1(b): PJT Partners (top-notch pay, mega deals, slightly less established) Moelis (top pay, established, but higher volume of smaller deals, somewhat notorious culture) Lazard (prestigious global brand, fantastic deal flow, but pay is on the lower end of the spectrum) PWP (heavy-hitter senior bankers, top pay, still relatively less established, fewer deals)

Tier 2: Greenhill (established boutique, but been on a downward trend) Guggenheim (some mega deals, but heavily group-dependent - namely TMT, HC and FIG, otherwise sometimes considered to be MM)

Assumptions: -NYC office -M&A (not inclusive of RX) -Also does not include top MM such as HLHZ, Jeffries, Blair, etc.

 
Most Helpful

Not sure why PJT isn't in Tier 1 tho, given top 10 M&A last year, largest per deal size (but multiple large deals, not one outlier skewing the mean, with Abbvie, TDAm, all the MGM deals, Caesars, Danaher/GE, etc.), largest deal value per analyst by far especially after EVR expanded its class and top notch recruiting, virtually everyone goes to top PE or HF (most recent included BX, APO, Carlyle, CB, TPG and a couple tiger cubs).

Also don't forget about CVP's 3 year deal and the fact that they're less keen on their juniors recruiting (even tho people do it anyway).

Also tempted to maybe swap CVP and MOE? Idk, culture sucks but it's definitely established especially if you include LA

 

The 3 year contract sounds like it sucks, but talking to analysts there you have more of an excuse to wait til your 2nd year to recruit for PE (rather than being recruited MFs/top HFs. Analyst class is pretty small (~20) and the MDs do come bat for you. not to mention the $50k sign on bonus.

 

It depends on whether you are talking M&A, Restructuring or Industry Coverage. And are you talking just being an analyst or overall? For M&A I think that list is pretty accurate although Lazard is still a tier 1 M&A firm. PWP is small and the senior guys make tons of money. PJT and Moelis restructuring great exit ops for distressed/credit hedge funds.

 

Depends on a lot like group, school, gpa. The same headhunters will hit up gs, citi, and rbc guys. Just do the best you can - these rankings are only useful for someone sitting on multiple offers. If you are dead set on PE and already at any BB, just work your tail off and hope for the best.

 

I'd say it's a mix of group and bank. It's not like nomura tech will be better than morgan stanley fig.

 

Not gonna lie whoever made this is probably annoying to be around in real life, but the ranking is as "accurate" as any ranking can be.

 

RBC is a MM firm

Also does anyone have rankings for ECM/DCM?

 

These pointless popcorn threads will never stop b/c junior bankers love paying attention to crap senior bankers couldn't give 2 monkey poos about; banking is banking; so and so is not a BB and so and so is blah blah. Reality is that a "bottom tier" BB could have strong deal flow and pay bigger base & bonus than a "top tier" BB ranked higher on the league tables.

 

The comparison still exists but instead of bank - bank its sell/side - buy/side so most IB MD/D will probably be viewed on as a failure by their circle. Usually those at the "bottom" care the least about such rankings or think they are the top.

 

I can assure you that no MD/D is looked at as a failure. That has to be one of the stupidest things I’ve ever read on this forum. You should quit life and stop offering stupid opinions.

 

I'm sorry but RBC is still a balance sheet bank and not a BB..

They did ~300-400 Syndicated Loan deals, ~300-400 DCM deals vs a paltry ~100 M&A and ~100 ECM deals last year.

That is not the profile of a BB investment banking division and the people of this forum trying to push RBC as one have absolutely no grounds to. It's basically a slightly better version of HSBC or Nomura, nothing more.

 

Every BB would have a similar split though. Absolute deal count is just a reflection of where the market is. Market share is what matters, which is why league tables are more relevant.

In 2019 US league tables, RBC was 11th in M&A, 10th in high yield, 8th in leveraged loans. So where does that put them? Across the board pretty consistently either at the bottom of the BB’s or top of “the rest”. Arguing whether that makes them a “BB” is just pointless semantics that nobody really cares about except college students or analysts at RBC, DB, and UBS updating creds slides at 1am.

Also, while the US banking platform has made strong progress, they are still weak in trading/research and non-North America.

 

Look, as a director at one of these firms, I'd say these tiers are pretty accurate for domestic M&A.

However, instead of beefing up the status of RBC and Wells Fargo, UBS should really be removed from consideration as a Bulge Bracket - the deals just aren't there to back it up, and these past few years aren't an anomaly.

 

What are people's opinion of MS vs. JPM? I feel like MS gets a lot of hype but in a majority of league table publications (merger market, factset, wsj, etc) they seem to be behind JPM in global M&A. JPM does more deals but not many more, which leads me to believe both have exposure to big deals.

I know MS is a leader in the Tech IPO front but if you were deciding between the two today, which would you go? Factoring in recent performance, future outlook and the way the banks have positioned themselves

 

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