Sales & Trading Offer- Dilemma

I know people who made this transition but it is definitely not the norm, and will also depend on how historically internal mobility is viewed at your particular firm. Your best bet is probably to land any sort IB internship (boutique, MM, etc.) and then try and leverage that into a BB full-time offer. The skill-set in S&T is not at all relevant to IBD.

Why would you even want to do ibd when you can do s&t, it's basically the same or better pay with half the hours and much more interesting work.

Ecko, based on your description I'm going to assume you do not work in S&T. OP, do not get into S&T unless you are very familiar with it and in it for the long-run. If you really love it, it can still be a lucrative career and if you're good (or get lucky and placed on a desk at the right time) you will likely make more than you would in IBD in the short-term. The downside is that having 0 transferable skills in a dying industry is not a good position to be in if it turns out you do not enjoy it.

I'm honestly not too sure. I was on the S&T side so someone from the IBD side may be able to provide better information. I do know that after my BB internship, 1 kid requested IBD and had to re-interview, network, etc, but made it work and got an IBD offer. I also know of 1-2 kids that went from IBD/cap markets to S&T following their summer. If you perform well, I would assume it would only positively affect your chances for IBD at the same BB. That being said, if you want to do IBD, your best bet at landing a FT BB offer would be to do some sort of IBD this summer. Either way its a champagne problem, hustle no matter what happens and I'm sure it will all work out.

I think people are digressing. Regardless of which is better, since you want IBD, if you take the offer it is definitely a possibility. They will usually have some internal mobility program, which in my experience, was semi-successful.

I think it is hard to gauge how successful the intern mobility process is. It is based off your resume, the review your desk gives you, and lastly, how much they like you when you interview. If you do a good job during the summer, you should be able to lateral. If not, then you can always re-recruit full-time with a S&T offer. And if THAT doesn't work, accept the return offer, let HR know you want IBD. Best case scenario, there will be an opening. Worst case, do a year and then move.

Hope that helps! If you're mind is set on IBD and you already have a BB S&T offer, you'll definitely be able to make the move.

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I would definitely not talk to your current BB about trying to get IBD... I would focus on other firms. If you are unable to land an IBD internship, than at the end of your S&T internship you can ask to interview for IBD, and spend the summer networking to help your cause. I'm not sure what timing is like, but if I were you I would hustle to see if I can get any IBD offer and if not, take the S&T offer and a) you may actually like it but b) you can leverage that into FT ibd interviews. Best of luck!

1) Sorry, I am too lazy to read every comment. I'm not quite sure where you stand with the other BB, but if you had your superday and do not hear back within 2 weeks, you can probably safely assume you didn't get it. Then, you should accept.

2) For the internship? If so, I would say 0%. An S&T internship should give you some down time here and there to go network with IBD. During your internship, I would find those in banking, shoot them an internal email asking when you can visit, and go visit. Do this for various groups to hedge your bets. At the end of the summer, list all the groups you networked with.

Honestly, I wouldn't worry too much. S&T and IBD are the most popular FO roles. So your ability should be easier than those from other roles. And as VTB89 said, if this doesn't work, leverage it for interviews. Hope that helped!

One caveat to the above for readers - I know of people who have transferred from full-time S&T to IBD, it is definitely possible, both after their first year and second year as analysts, and both had to re-start as first year IBD analysts (the skills just don't overlap enough).

I am a junior too

Anyone, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. However, I do not think they are saying it's necessarily harder. Like alphamale said, you'll be getting interviews for sure next year and you can make the transition as long as you defend the idea of why you want to switch.

I think they are saying it is harder in terms of skillsets. If you did a summer in IBD, you can probably recruit for FT at other places with my comfort with respect to the technicals, lifestyle, etc. However, you're going to have to learn the technical on your own as your summer skillsets will be largely useless for IBD (minus the networks).

I would see how many BBs are left on your OCR. If there are still a good number to go and you feel confident, go for it. You can even ask your S&T BB for more time if it comes down to it. Personally, I would just accept it. You may like it. If you don't, I really don't think the switch is that hard.

Despite noonelikesme's depressing username, it was an accurate summary.

much more interesting work.

I agree with dissy. Trading is much more interesting to me. If you go, pick a non-execution desk that can hold inventory. I think those are the coolest. Just me. However, trading isn't project-driven which I hear gets boring. Also, no exit ops, and let's be real, you're probably in it for the exits I imagine? I know few people who would want IBD for the long haul.

Regardless, I can't hate. I switched to consulting.

I agree with what's been said above. And I don't believe that full-time recruiting is necessarily any more difficult than internship recruiting.

"Do you think I should reject the S&T offer, and hope that I get an IBD offer later on?"

If all you have is "hope" then I would take the BB S&T offer. If you're CONFIDENT that you can get a good IBD offer, then go for it. Like I said earlier, having BB S&T on your resume plus the network that it brings will open all the doors you need to go wherever you want. Plus, S&T is awesome and potentially a great career. But if taking the S&T internship is going to give you some sort of unjustified inferiority complex, then just go for IBD.

I would request to push out the offer deadline for S&T as long as you can and then try for IBD. If it doesn't work out, you will be able to leverage your internship into IBD full-time. So no, I would not outright decline the offer. Also, S&T is completely desk dependent. You say the internship is non-rotational, so which desk? FX trading and distressed debt trading are two entirely different things, and if you can land on a desk with more illiquid products and an active research team, it will be much easier to pitch to IBD next year, and more importantly since you are interested in IBD type work you will likely enjoy the internship much more.

Distressed debt trading, imo, is the best desk to be on with High Yield and EM. Irrelevant I know. Just wanted to say.

OP: I think I know your feeling. You're thinking I don't want to wait until summer's over. It's not 100% and I want to feel mentally secure right now for IBD. You're probably really antsy. My 2 cents. Be patient. You're in a great position and things will likely span out. Take the offer and be prepared to network.

noonelikesmeatall yep, thats for sure the feeling I have. Haha, I love consulting too. Yes, I am definitely doing it for the exit opps, as I don't see myself growing old at a BB. @VTB89" 1) That's my plan for now. I just contacted some people at other BB's regarding IBD at their firm. Some I have application in already, others they haven't even had their deadline for apps. I will see how the next two weeks go. 2) I do not know my desk yet, I find out much later on. alphamale I am confident that I can get an IBD offer, but I am not confident that I can get and IBD offer from MS, JP, GS.

Do you all think that JPM S&T is better than MM or Boutique IBD? I know at the end of the day that the name brand will go a long way, and I don't want to jeopardize that.

Also thank you all, its great having so many quality responses so quickly!

Brand is much less important in S&T, its once again very desk specific and 'rankings' are volatile, although maybe at the internship level it will look good to have the JPM name on the resume. If you want IBD full-time, no JPM S&T is not 'better' than MM our boutique IBD. I think universal wisdom says if you want IBD full-time, an IBD internship best positions you for that. Do not compare brands across separate jobs, it is a common recipe of prestige chasing that will end with you miserable and questioning the true meaning of life in 2 years.

I'm not sure why ecko gets such a hard-on for S&T, but take opinions such as his without any actual experience with a grain of salt. I hope it's sarcasm but the 'nowhere in life' kind of depressing extremes is all too common in the college job hunt; all of you high achievers need to go slug 10 beers and relax. If you want S&T, JPM is definitely one of the best. If you don't want S&T, then you will make good money for a few years and exit without any transferable skills. Most IBDs will open up more doors than S&T, even JPM. Brand name is great, but I can't stress enough just how little what you do in S&T is relevant to anything else at all. The bottom line is that you're going to be fine either way, and I agree with ecko that you should absolutely not throw away an awesome S&T offer, but keep your options open for a couple of weeks and see what happens. PM me if you have any more Qs.

If you're at JPM (which is sounds like you are since you said the internship isn't rotational) then they will tell you halfway through the summer whether or not you're on track for an offer and if you are and you say you don't like what you're doing they will let you switch to another FO role. So if it is in fact JPM then take the S&T offer, crush the work, and if you really still want to do banking halfway through then you can switch.

With that said, I can't imagine doing IBD over trading. I guess if you aren't really interested in markets and have no idea what you want to do later on in life then IBD makes sense, but you're having an absolutely shit time for two years doing miserable work in your early twenties. And it doesn't really get that much better after the switch over to the buyside.

@VTB89" noonelikesmeatall Anonymoose

I just heard back from three banks. However, they are asking me which Bank is the current offer coming from and whens the deadline.

How should I answer which bank the offer if from? Should I be honest, or will I get screwed. (My current offer is top 3, think GS,JP,MS).

Thanks!

Why the hell would you not be honest...

Yeah, just be honest. I really don't see any reason to lie and how that would be any more beneficial than telling the truth.

Also, for S&T, the top 3 definitely is not GS, JPM, MS. That's largely for IBD. Not that it's relevant, but in case you cared.

Someone recommended me to email the Executive Director who interviewed me for IBD first round. Tell him I got the S&T offer, but IBD is still my first choice. If we can talk about an offer for IBD, I am ready to accept. Do you think we can connect some time today".

How does that sound? I am ready to accept the offer if he extends me one. I am worried that he will tell S&T, and that they will become sour. They will know I am uncommitted and may pull the offer, or may not give me a FT offer at the end of summer.

Please let me know. I would like to send this email right away!

noonelikesmeatall and if anyone else wants to contribute!

Is your S&T Offer from OCR? If so, they won't pull the offer. Plus, they should know that this is your future and they want you to be excited to go where you are going. I would omit the line saying "If we can....accept." Say that over the phone, but overall, the plan sounds solid.