Should I go to Kellogg? Weigh in!

Hi all,

Am hoping to get some feedback on whether to go to B school. Unfortunately this post is shamefully similar to my good friend Medical Monkey's recent post, but my situation is complicated by two issues: I earn twice as much, but went to a lowly state school in California (UC Irvine) for undergrad. So here's the scoop:

* 26 years old.
* Accepted at Kellogg and Columbia, haven't heard back from HWS but I expect to get into at least one of them.
* Currently work for a well-known hedge fund in Los Angeles.
* I make about $250k per year. I may make over $300k in 2013, and maybe $450k by the time I would have been graduating from MBA. I don't think I'll get fired. I live simply (pack my lunch, shop at Jos. A Bank, etc.) and will have well over $1 million before I'm 30.
* I can pay cash for my MBA and still have like $150k left over when I'm done.
* I'm kind of embarrassed by my undergrad, and want people to know I'm smart without having to earn it through actual conversation. I also may want to be the CEO of a giant company or a high ranking government official eventually, and I'm concerned my undergrad won't quite cut it.
* My life sucks. I've been working 90 hour weeks for 4 years and I'm burnt out like no other. Also, I absolutely hate LA and don't know if I can take these people much longer.
* If I do an MBA, I'll probably just return to the hedge fund industry at the same income level, hopefully.

What say you, monkeys? Do you stick it out for 10 more years and live happily ever after off the interest, or do you take a massive financial risk and go back to school?

 

I think your second to last bullet is probably the most important. Just how much does it suck? How badly do you want to change geography? Do you like the people at your fund?

It would be hard for me to leave that much income on the table to go back to school, but at least you have the savings/means for a two year vacation if you need it.

"For I am a sinner in the hands of an angry God. Bloody Mary full of vodka, blessed are you among cocktails. Pray for me now and at the hour of my death, which I hope is soon. Amen."
 
duffmt6:
I think your second to last bullet is probably the most important. Just how much does it suck? How badly do you want to change geography? Do you like the people at your fund?

It would be hard for me to leave that much income on the table to go back to school, but at least you have the savings/means for a two year vacation if you need it.

It's starting to get tough for me to go into work everyday. It's becoming much more bureaucratic and corporate-y. I reallllly want to change geography, and the people at my firm are OK but they're mainly late 30's early 40's dudes with families, so I have little in common except we all like money and working at a hedge fund.

 

If I were in your shoes, I wouldn't give up what you have for Kellogg or Columbia. I understand that you're embarrassed by your UG institution, but you've got it pretty good already in terms of career.

Change to a different fund in the area or change to a different location all together and see if that helps your enjoyment at all.

If you still want a big brand on your resume, wait a few years and do an EMBA at HBS or Wharton.

 

Assume you've talked to recruiters and/or your network already about relocation and gotten no traction but I still don't understand why you can't shift to a smaller fund in a different geography where you can have more PnL impact and better hours unless you do some esoteric strategy.

Don't go to Kellogg (even if you want to be in Chicago, UChicago is going to much more up your alley, as much as you think you the easier program now, it is very annoying to be around dumb people again after spending a lot of time around smart ones). Maybe Columbia if you love NYC, but realistically for your needs only Harvard and Wharton are worth it (Stanford depends on whether you hate Cali or just LA).

Realistically, if you have been promoted that 2nd time and have a 3 year career path in front of you now, get that and go for an exec MBA if you feel you need it. Or (again depending on strategy) a doctorate.

 

I agree with a lot of the other posters. If you really want the pedigree and feel that you need an MBA to change jobs, there are a lot of EMBA programs right there in Cali that would work. A lot of people don't understand that it isn't so much your age, but the level of responsibility that determines whether or not you would be a good fit for an EMBA. Just to name a few EMBAs out there: Wharton San Francisco, Berkley, and UCLA. With what you are doing now, you would most likely be able to get into one of these programs. Plus, you would still be earning a ton and then be able to switch to something more enjoyable either during or after the program.

 
Best Response

STIBOR,

I'm going to offer advice that conflicts with what most people above are saying. I recommend that you go to b-school and take the time to explore other options. To qualify my opinion, I am also in a post-MBA role and will be heading back to b-school. Here's the way I see it:

1) You have a truckload of money. You don't seem to be the type of person who has expenses that mirror your level of income, which means you probably don't get a whole lot of pleasure from "the finer things in life." As a result, the foregone earnings and cost of the program are very minor concerns for you. Likewise, the ability to maximize your earnings throughout your career is likely a low priority for you as well.

2) You are burnt out. Working 90 hours a week in a city you dislike is a miserable experience. The paycheck can't compensate for this so you need an alternative. I know, I've been there and I'll never go back. B-school will be a fun experience especially coming directly from your job. You have the funds to make the most out of the experience without the stress of loans. Even if b-school doesn't enhance your career, it will certainty give you a break and a chance to reinvigorate yourself without compromising your future.

3) You want options. If you aren't sure you want to work at a hedge fund your entire career, you're going to need to develop alternative skillsets or at least generate credibility. Given your undergrad, b-school will be a great way to do this. There are very few opportunities in one's career to build broad-based credibility and b-school is one of them. You're 26 years old and b-school is becoming less attractive every year. You've already applied so the work is behind you -- now you just need to make a decision. To that point, you made your post on January 5th and the decision release dates for H/S/W were December for R1 --- I'm not quite sure how you haven't heard back from these three unless you're waitlisted or applying in R2? Regardless, all my advice applies to your Kellogg admit.

4) You need downside protection. Similar to point three, you work in an incredibly volatile industry. While you indicate that your hedge fund is well-known, there are a tremendous number of well-known and lesser-known funds that appear to be blowing up on a regular basis. I don't have evidence this is true for the hedge fund market, but it is certainly true for the private equity market. If your firm were to go under due to elements completely beyond your control, you're going to want the MBA to help you transition to the next opportunity.

I could probably come up with a handful of additional reasons, but the core of it comes down to the fact that you aren't happy in your current job and that you don't seem to place a high value on maximizing your income.

CompBanker’s Career Guidance Services: https://www.rossettiadvisors.com/
 
CompBanker:
STIBOR,

I'm going to offer advice that conflicts with what most people above are saying. I recommend that you go to b-school and take the time to explore other options. To qualify my opinion, I am also in a post-MBA role and will be heading back to b-school. Here's the way I see it:

1) You have a truckload of money. You don't seem to be the type of person who has expenses that mirror your level of income, which means you probably don't get a whole lot of pleasure from "the finer things in life." As a result, the foregone earnings and cost of the program are very minor concerns for you. Likewise, the ability to maximize your earnings throughout your career is likely a low priority for you as well.

2) You are burnt out. Working 90 hours a week in a city you dislike is a miserable experience. The paycheck can't compensate for this so you need an alternative. I know, I've been there and I'll never go back. B-school will be a fun experience especially coming directly from your job. You have the funds to make the most out of the experience without the stress of loans. Even if b-school doesn't enhance your career, it will certainty give you a break and a chance to reinvigorate yourself without compromising your future.

3) You want options. If you aren't sure you want to work at a hedge fund your entire career, you're going to need to develop alternative skillsets or at least generate credibility. Given your undergrad, b-school will be a great way to do this. There are very few opportunities in one's career to build broad-based credibility and b-school is one of them. You're 26 years old and b-school is becoming less attractive every year. You've already applied so the work is behind you -- now you just need to make a decision. To that point, you made your post on January 5th and the decision release dates for H/S/W were December for R1 --- I'm not quite sure how you haven't heard back from these three unless you're waitlisted or applying in R2? Regardless, all my advice applies to your Kellogg admit.

4) You need downside protection. Similar to point three, you work in an incredibly volatile industry. While you indicate that your hedge fund is well-known, there are a tremendous number of well-known and lesser-known funds that appear to be blowing up on a regular basis. I don't have evidence this is true for the hedge fund market, but it is certainly true for the private equity market. If your firm were to go under due to elements completely beyond your control, you're going to want the MBA to help you transition to the next opportunity.

I could probably come up with a handful of additional reasons, but the core of it comes down to the fact that you aren't happy in your current job and that you don't seem to place a high value on maximizing your income.

Thanks for all of the helpful advice - I think this is the right answer. Also, RD2 at all of the big dogs, by the way.

 

I'd do the MBA. My situation is in some ways similar to yours. Make over 250 and at a very good job (repe), but want to take a break and switch geographies, plus I want to get an advanced degree for personal reasons and because it's gonna be fun. I'm one year older and my undergrad was much better though still a source of angst at times (low tier ivy)... Let us know what you do

 
International Pymp:
I'd do the MBA. My situation is in some ways similar to yours. Make over 250 and at a very good job (repe), but want to take a break and switch geographies, plus I want to get an advanced degree for personal reasons and because it's gonna be fun. I'm one year older and my undergrad was much better though still a source of angst at times (low tier ivy)... Let us know what you do

So have you applied and are you matriculating this fall?

 
STIBOR:
International Pymp:
I'd do the MBA. My situation is in some ways similar to yours. Make over 250 and at a very good job (repe), but want to take a break and switch geographies, plus I want to get an advanced degree for personal reasons and because it's gonna be fun. I'm one year older and my undergrad was much better though still a source of angst at times (low tier ivy)... Let us know what you do

So have you applied and are you matriculating this fall?

I haven't applied but I will this year, so matriculate in 2014. I'm not sure where I'll go but id say pretty much guaranteed m7. H/s will be tough but I've got a strong profile for all other schools (ivy/730/work at mega cap fund/ all international experience in multiple continents over 5 years/ languages/ etc.)

 

Sounds like you just need to recharge. Ask if you can a non-paid 3-6 month break and just travel. Save you a ton of money vs. getting a mba and at least you'll have a job when you get back.

Opportunity cost of $900K ($300K+$400K salary + $200K school) is absolutely insane for a mba -- unless your fund will pay for a % of it and guarantee a return offer.

 

I just dont see the point of going to b-school if you really have no intention of changing industries. Compbanker points to options and downside protection. Not spending $100k on school and not foregoing ~$600k in income would also provide a variety of options like doing something entrepreneurial, moving to a shop that offers a better work/life balance, investing the money and obtaining a new job through networking.

I was in a similar situation as the OP and opted against applying to b-school because I determined and was advised that anything I needed to learn at b-school could be learned on my own doing 6 months of self-study, I already had an expansive network after 5+ years, and the types of jobs that hire MBAs (IB, Consulting, Mega Fund PE etc.) were of no interest to me. If you need a life changing experience take a 3 month sabbatical.

I definitely understand your desire to re-brand but every time I think of the concept I think about a passage from Snowball which basically begs the question: would you rather be the greatest investor in the world but have the world think you were the worst or be the worst investor in the world but have the world think you were the greatest.

You are earning money and building a track record so who cares about the name on your diploma or what the world thinks? Granted you seem pretty unhappy so something will have to change.

 
junkbondswap:
I just dont see the point of going to b-school if you really have no intention of changing industries. Compbanker points to options and downside protection. Not spending $100k on school and not foregoing ~$600k in income would also provide a variety of options like doing something entrepreneurial, moving to a shop that offers a better work/life balance, investing the money and obtaining a new job through networking.

I was in a similar situation as the OP and opted against applying to b-school because I determined and was advised that anything I needed to learn at b-school could be learned on my own doing 6 months of self-study, I already had an expansive network after 5+ years, and the types of jobs that hire MBAs (IB, Consulting, Mega Fund PE etc.) were of no interest to me. If you need a life changing experience take a 3 month sabbatical.

I definitely understand your desire to re-brand but every time I think of the concept I think about a passage from Snowball which basically begs the question: would you rather be the greatest investor in the world but have the world think you were the worst or be the worst investor in the world but have the world think you were the greatest.

You are earning money and building a track record so who cares about the name on your diploma or what the world thinks? Granted you seem pretty unhappy so something will have to change.

Solid points here. Why so much attention and infatuation with the prestige and the brand? It must be a cultural thing. We are after all social animals, so respect and admiration of equals is - unfortunately - important to many people, myself included. The big question is - what's the price tag? Because at some point it becomes unreasonable. What if I the opportunity cost is $7 million per year, with a 100% guarantee of no return offer. That's a no-brainer, because you're getting mighty close to the so-called YMCMB money. What about $1 million, or $250k, or $50k? So I think ultimately it's a money game that needs to be weighed against the value of the brand, and I feel like my current numbers are just super close to the edge of unreasonable and reasonable. Kind of a rambling response, but I like all of the thoughts!

 

First, congrats on the admits to two great schools and on not letting such a fortunate income situation at such a young age make you materialistic or arrogant. Unfortunately I don't have any worthy advice, but I would like to ask the 64 thousand dollar question: how did you land such a great gig coming from a "lowly" school? (Although to be honest, I would have loved to go to UC Irvine ...) Also, what are your main responsibilities at the fund? And hours?

 

Man.. making all that money must really suck.. Hopefully you'll get your MBA and find yourself at a less prestigious institution making less money.

“Elections are a futures market for stolen property”
 

Life is about the experiences. You earn money to have great experiences. What are you going to do if you spend all your life saving and worrying only about money - maybe you'll buy a crazy car when you are 50 and can't even enjoy it.

I'm coming from a very similar position to you, albeit I'm a few years older and "saw the other side" of sticking it out while not enjoying my job. I am going for my mba as well, because as corny as it sounds you only live once.

The downside is 2 years of lost income (which in the grand scheme of things will probably be a drop in the ocean for you).

making a one eight zero.
 

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