Should I take AM over IB if I want to be on the buy-side?
I have been set on the IB track due to my interest in buy-side exits. Now, I have an offer at a lower-tier BB bank and a LO AM equities offer at the firm with $500bn+ in AUM. If I want to be on the buy-side, why wouldn't I accept the AM offer?
The AM offer pays the same and would have a much better work-life balance. I'm passionate about investing, so my only hesitation is that I'm somewhat interested in PE/VC along with HFs and LO AM.
Would IB be worth 2 terrible years just to get to a similar role?
I guess the question here is whether you want to be in AM or PE long term. Despite being buyside, AM and PE are pretty different in terms of your role and career. This is equivalent to asking if you should do IB or S&T.
VC/HF are fairly rare/difficult exits from IB except for a few top groups, so will put that and MF PE aside for a moment and focus on your most likely exits. Does MM/UMM PE sound interesting to you, or do you want to be a stock picker? I wouldn't do IB just trying to get a VC seat, for example, unless you have prior internships or founder experience.
IB sucks, but if you prefer M&A to picking stocks, I wouldn't let 2 difficult years stand in the way of your long-term interests. You seem excited about the AM offer, I just wouldn't accept it thinking it's buyside and you're good to go, because buyside is such a wide range. AM -> PE is not a well-traveled path, even post MBA, so be sure this is your actual interest instead of just wanting to avoid 2 years in IB.
I disagree with your point about not being likely to get a VC job (especially if you meant growth too) unless from a top group. There’s a big universe of VC and growth funds that hire lower tier BBs and MMs. VC is always harder because banking is less transferable and VC is very network driven or would rather hire consultants / ops / founder profiles, but you can still get in if you have a connection, some experience in VC or a startup, or just follow the industry and can interview intelligently.
OP, PE vs VC vs LO AM are all extremely different and I think the fact that you’re considering all of them suggests you don’t know what you want to do. That’s fine, but for this reason I would urge you to really think things through before you sign a AM offer.
low tier BBs get a lot of shit on here (I’m assuming you’re taking about UBS or DB?) but they have strong legacy names and everyone knows they’re bulge brackets despite the downfall they’ve experienced. Even 5 (especially 10) years ago both had great tech franchises so I’m sure there are alumni from each in VC you could connect to
Very helpful and I'll clarify a bit. The offer is not actually low-tier BB, it's BAML. I just wanted to make the point that it is not GS/MS/JPM.
At this point in my career, I don't know what I want to do, but I'm pretty set on investing roles. I find all asset classes interesting (equities, private deals, real estate, etc.) My main hesitation with IB is that I don't find the work intellectually interesting and the hours suck. While I like learning how deals are structured, I'd much rather be forming investment theses than aligning powerpoint logos all day and redoing the same chart 15 times. The only reason I'm considering IB is because it can exit to PE/VC investing.
So UBS then
Nope
Had a convo like this with my mentor, and it really hinges on how much you want to do PE. That’s it. FWIW, I decided to stick with LO AM in the end because, as my mentor told me, there’s no guarantee of re-entry later on. Public investing seats tend to be so scarce that if you’re really passionate about it, then you should hang on to whatever you manage to find. I was also never enamored with PE, so that may change the calculus for you.
You will work 2 years IB to basically try to get the same role you have the opportunity to have now. I would take the long-only offer and see how you like it. If you don't like it and feel pigeonholed go get your MBA in 3-4 years and go the IB/PE route. It will be easier to go the latter route and switch gears after MBA etc. than it is to get a buyside job in the first place.
Knowing how hard it was for me to get into my seat, I really dislike the popular indirect route to buyside through IB/ER because you will have more prestige and optionality etc. It is great in theory and maybe it opens an top tier opportunity that you can't get otherwise, but it is all a probability game and too cute in my view. That route is great if you don't have the opportunity to go straight to the buyside. You have 100% probability to get a pretty decent job buyside job NOW vs. let's say 60-75% probability of getting a similar role in two years out of IB because who knows, the market could take a shit and hiring freeze across the street and then you are screwed. Maybe you have a 10-15% probability of getting a top tier Fidelity role or something that you won't have going straight to a LO boutique but that is what you give up for 100% chance to break in.
By buyside he means private equity
Go where you can get the best training.
If you land at a BB in IB, even at a lower tier firm, you will get trained well. Obv it depends on what group you're in, but overall the training should be decent.
On the LO side, it really depends on what LO you land at and what the role is. There's a huge difference between the large LOs out there. If you landed an investing role at any top LO, I would say take it without any hesitation. IF you landed a spot at some random group at a weaker (but still sizable) LO, I would opt for the BB. The good LOs have training programs and getting a seat there as a junior is highly impressive....BUT the weak LOs do a very poor job of training juniors. You could be spinning your wheels there as a junior. I suggest weighing what group you're headed to, how juniors are trained and what has been the prior career path for ppl in your position has been.
I've known ppl who've taken large LO jobs as juniors and never really understood what they were doing going in. The big LO all sounded great, but the day to day role was not investing and more administrative. Whereas those who did IB got trained well and had excellent exit ops. Go in with eyes wide open, the firm is great, but understand the exact role, group, training, etc....
Best of luck!!!!
Do many HFs recruit out of LO AM? If I went with LO AM my end goal would be smaller HF but I realize they are totally different styles.
I'd be careful in generalizing these LO roles.
Sure style difference is important between LOs and HFs, but also firm/role. If you're at Fido in an investment role, there's a better chance of making the move to a HF than a similar role at a weak LO.
I'd take an IB role at a BB compared to a low end LO any day.
Great answer—what would you consider to be the top LOs (in equities)? What sorts of red/green flags would you recommend we be on the lookout for when considering these offers?
If you land an equity investment role at: Fido/Well/TR, you're in great shape. There are plenty others too, those are just a few examples...I've also given reference checks for juniors looking to join Alger and Baron Capital, both seem like very decent places.
BUT make sure it's an actual front office investment role and not a middle office role. I had an exchange w/ someone junior on WSO who thought a middle office role w/ a very fancy title at TR was an investment role...turned out to be a risk mgt / portfolio reporting role.
What to look out for? Be careful when it comes to big LOs with so many sub-groups. For example, NB has some great groups, but also a lot of PWM type roles that can sound like equity LO investing. It's important you understand where you are going / what you are doing. Do you have a single PM to report to? Are you part of a pool? Are you in a siloed group? Is there an analyst training program? To use NB as an example, I've run into ppl who joined thinking they were headed to a FO equity investment role and ended up doing more allocation / PWM type work. Nothing against that work and NB is a great firm where I have plenty of friends at, but understand what you signed up for.
I find sometimes juniors are hesitant to ask questions during interviews. You should have a crystal clear idea of any role you take before you consider taking it as well as accompanying training and career track.
Another thing, I'm not going to call out the weak/shrinking LOs by name, but you can do your homework and figure out if the group you're joining will be there in a few years.
As always, happy to discuss specific roles over DMs and help if I can.
Best of luck!
I faced a very similar dilemma when I was coming out of university, so I know what kind of position you're in.
To be frank, it depends on what type of buyside role you want. As others have already said, if you have an inkling suspicion that you might want to do something in PE/VC, then IB is definitely better.
Something that isn't often mentioned in these discussions that I only found out later in my buyside career, is that the difference between various types of investment firms on the public equities side is like night and day (LO AM vs. L/S HF vs. event-driven/special sits; multi-manager vs. single manager, etc.).
To summarize a few of the major public equities buyside roles:
I'd suggest you research all of these to find out what fits your personality the best.
Coming from a LO AM, I would say it would be more difficult to get a spot at a more "tactical" fund because the investment style is totally different. However, you'd probably position yourself just fine, maybe even better than an IB candidate, for one of the long-biased single manager L/S or LO funds.
Don't denigrate the experience you'd get working in banking, especially understanding how the capital structure of a business ties together and understanding markets from a more "human" POV, as opposed to a philosophical point of view that value/growth investors often eschew. After all, markets are nothing but the sum of buy and sell orders.
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